Inspection, examination, and testing...ASME B31.3 2

[engr2GW]

Hi all, according to B31.3, the inspector is independent of the fabrication company or erector, and inspection does not releive the fabricator from providing examination services and reports to the owner's ispector...The code almost assumes (in my understanding) that the fabricator/welding company has a QC or x-ray personnel.

My question is: if my fabricators does not have QC department or x-ray techs, and I hire an independent third party NDE company who have an inspector, does the inspector working for the NDE company (but not the welding company) constitute a confict or mis-application of code? I'm asking because it appears that B31.3 distinguishes between inspction and examination and the codes makes it sound like the examination is exclusively the fabricators responsibility while the inspection is the owners.

Simply, can I have a welding company, and have a seperate NDE company working for me to do x-ray/examination and/or testing and have the same NDE inspection (sign off on) the construction and it's examination result?

THANKS A LOT.

As much as possible, do it right the first time...

 

[BigInch]

I haven't ever had to split that hair, but I don't think the intent of the code is so specific in its demands. If the work is inspected, examined and tested as required, by an entity qualified and authorized to do so by code and contract provisions, I believe the code is happy. Exactly who does what can be left up to the terms specified in the contract. Total independence isn't necessary, as long as enough is provided such that both parties to the contract agree on whom shall do the inspection and that the inspectors have enough freedom from both parties to ensure that the work will indeed be completed to code.

From "BigInch's Extremely simple theory of everything."

 

[billMcL]

In the ASME code there is an "Authorized Inspector" ...not to be confused with a qualified "NDT Technician". Is it the same in ANSI B31.3 work?

 

[eyec]

Is it the same in ANSI B31.3 work?
No

 

[moltenmetal]

For piping to be installed in some jurisdictions, some of the inspection roles must be assumed by 3rd parties. For instance, for B31.3 piping installed in Canada, the provincial regulatory body for pressure vessels and pressure piping must carry out certain of these roles, i.e. the qualification of welders under ASME IX (whether for pipe or vessels), and witnessing the NDE and hydrotests.

In the US, it's a matter for negotiation and agreement between owner and fabricator, as BigInch says.

 

[engr2GW]

Thannks all,

I wasn't asking if the NDE tech. is the same as the inspector? I'm simply asking is they can be from the same part/company as long as they're independent of the welding/fabrication company. I don't see a conflict of interest, do you? The code says the inspection should be independent of the of the erector, but doesn't say that for inspection and examination.

As much as possible, do it right the first time...

 

[stanweld]

It is not uncommon for the Owner to contract NDE services for B31.3 piping installations. It is also not uncommon for the Owner to appoint an Inspector (usually an employee of its Engineer or Engineering Construction Manager) to act in that capacity for them. The Owner cannot appoint, as its Inspector, an employee of the installation Contractor.

 

[engr2GW]

Thanks, Stanweld, and everyone for your contributions.

As much as possible, do it right the first time...

 

[Duwe6]

Small quibble -- the Owner can appoint ANY person that they deem qualified. And if they are stupid and gullible enough, they may appoint an employee of the construction company. The Inspector just has to be competent, and not part of the actual construction process - i.e. not a General Foreman or Superintendant working on that particular job. He/she cannot inspect his/her own work.

NDT techs are typically just that - techs. Their work is to be presented to the Owner's Inspector for approval, so having the same guy 'shooting' your X-rays / RT's and also approving them is a conflict of interest. They would be inspecting their own work.

 

[engr2GW]

@Duwe6: If feels like the conflict is only if the X-ray tech is being tested for his NDE skills, if the purpose is for the X-ray and the inspector to verify the quality of a weld done by someone else, I don't see the conflict. The x-ray films/reader sheets can only say a weld is bad, not that an x-ray tech is...I MAY BE WRONG, but the above is why I thought it may not conflict the code or even interest...

As much as possible, do it right the first time...

 

[Duwe6]

engr2GW, I think you may be missing a 'larger' item.

First, though, I agree that it really doesn't matter who 'actually' employes the RT tech. If his film is clear enough to see the required IQI - image quality indicator - and is within the density requirements, it doesn't matter who he is employed by.

The bigger item is that the Owner's Inspector for B31.3 piping systems is responsible for verifying that the pipe, fittings, and valves used meet Code and the Owner's specs. That all welding procedures - WPS's - have been approved, and are bieng followed by the welders. That all welders have certification papers that cover the weld process [Mig, Tig, Stick - GMAW, GTAW, SMAW], the material type and thickness they are working on, and that they are using the filler metal(s) prescribed by the WPS. That the appropriate number of RT's are shot on all buttwelders, and that the appropriate number of visual inspections are performed on socketwelds. That the pipe lines are adequatly supported and restrained. based on the size of the pipe, the line spec, and the operating temperatures. Finally, that the lines are all hydro tested to the appropriate pressures, that no sections of pipe get missed in the hydro testing, that the test water is drained and the lines flushed to a satisfactory level of cleanliness for Start-up.

Almost all RT techs are not competent, educated or experienced enough to fufill all of these minimum requirements. I'm not disparaging techs, just that most Inspector's duties are outside of a tech's job discription and level of training.

 

[engr2GW]

I completely agree with you, I think you probably missed what I was asking initially, I'm not asking if the tech can necessarily be the inspector, I was asking if the tech and inspector can be from the same company as long as they're both independent of the erector...

As much as possible, do it right the first time...

 

[stanweld]

Duwe6,
Per ASME B31.3, 340.4 (a), "The owner's Inspector shall not represent nor be an employee of the piping manufacturer, fabricator , or erector unless the owner is also the manufacturer, fabricator or erector."

It is understood that owners may have deviated from the above requirements; however, to do so is not without risk should a catastrophic incident occur in a piping system so inspected.

 

[Duwe6]

"I was asking if the tech and inspector can be from the same company "

Absolutly. Two different scopes of work, from a [hopefully] disinterested 3rd-party. No real overlap, as the Inspector is predominately checking the clairity and density of the RT's the tech(s) have shot, to predetermined standards. No opinions necessary or required.

 

[engr2GW]

Thanks everyone, great help.

As much as possible, do it right the first time...