Ok- I'll answer your questions in hopes of setting forth a thought provoking discussion.
Mbrooke:
It is our understanding that the NEC provides the minimum requirements for installations and should not be used as a design guide.
Correct. No disagreement here. And it is even in the mission statement of the NEC which is key to understanding where I'm going next.
-But- the NEC is in many ways evolving into a design guide.
The engineers should have the ultima responsibility to perform a safe and suitable electrical design using good engineering practice while meeting all codes, regulations, and laws applicable to a particular project.
Sure. But what if code legally lets you get away with bad designs that are sure to get someone injured or killed? Keep in mind its not only engineers who use the NEC but also electricians. How many US electricians know at which point any given circuit run will no longer trip the breaker (or fast enough) for any given source impedance? How does an inspector fail an electrician who ran ran power to a pool house 600 feet away?
The example of 2000 ft with #14 wires does not appear a convincing argument to belive that the NEC is a bad document.
Its a convincing argument that there is basic, fundamental, yet significant hazard the NEC does not address.
This is not new since in several posts you expressed an unfavorable opinion of the NEC.
What is wrong with holding such views? Why scold the messenger so to speak? My opinions are not without inference. The code is neither a protected individual nor a human victim, it is a piece of work open to discussion and criticism. To the contrary, being used as a rule of law and a doctrine of law grants individuals the right to seek redress- the right to question, challenge and scrutinize it and any authority using it.
Perhaps the following questionary will help to understand your frequent position regarding NEC matters.
1) What proportion of the NEC is considered good or bad in your opinion?
Its difficult to put a number on it. Roughly 50% as a whole. Less so 30 years ago.
In particular Article 250 which is out-and-out trash. It is not written on the basis of sound electrical theory. Evidence of that is rampant and one well known example are CMP members who in the majority 40 years ago believed ground rods facilitated the operation of OCPDs and brought exposed metal work to zero potential.
2) Should the NEC drop or replaced?
It needs to be overhauled, more so the NFPA itself which is no longer a neutral entity.
3) For what guide or code are you recommend to replace the NEC?
Physics and Electrical theory driven reasoning, evidence as gained through
INDEPENDENT testing (UL is a marionette) and enhanced safety were seen in other electrical codes used through out the globe.
A code
similar to this one in size and scope would be ideal:
However a carbon copy would not be ideal first requiring fine tuning (ie, American wire gauges should not be automatically discarded)- and the fact we can do even better. For one, joule heating is responsible for at least 90% of all electrical fires on earth yet there is not a single electrical in the globe which addresses this issue.
4) How the NEC is compared with other similar codes such as the Canadian Electrical(CSA C22.1), European Code(IEC 60364) or other international documents?
Honestly, it is dead last. It may not seem that way as compared to other countries especially 3rd world countries but while they lack competent installers, electricians and engineers the US lacks a competent code making body.
Here are some suggested options in case of disagreement with the NEC:
5)Are you free to request interpretations of a particular article to the NEC committee?
Sure- this one good thing.
6) Are you wheeling to propose changes in the NEC for the next editions?
Which does nothing meaningful. The CMPs are no longer a serious public process. Eaton and other various manufacturers own the NFPA and their code making bodies.
The NEC is not an enforced document by itself.
7) Are you aware that the electrical utilities are exempt to comply with NEC?
Have you seen my posts here?
![[bigsmile]](/data/assets/smilies/bigsmile.gif "[bigsmile] [bigsmile]")
Of course I know that, and why we pay 11 cents per kw hour on average. Unfortunately NERC and FERC are encroaching into solemn affairs... but that is a conversation for another thread.
8) Notice that many States adopt the different editions of the NEC as part of the building code and after that became enforced by the IHJ?
And how much of the NEC is amended? Not much and little is questioned.
From a liability perspective:
9) How insurance companies,(Ex FM Global) engineers or electricians operate in the US without a reference document such as the NEC?
The would go by a better document. I don't want to rid us of any code, but rather code that fulfills its desired mission statement.
