Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations TugboatEng on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Identifying the capacity of the trailer/puller 1
- Thread starter vipineng
- Start date
EdStainless
Materials
You need to look at both trailer load and ground load.
Call a heavy rigging specialist, after all someone is going to need to lift it also.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
Call a heavy rigging specialist, after all someone is going to need to lift it also.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
- Thread starter
- #3
Sounds like a trailer with a rating over 164,000 lbs is required. Lets call it 200,000 lbs.
Examples of Some trailers with sufficient nominal weight capacity shown here -
How far will the transformer be traveling?
Is going to be scrapped, or refurbished, or installed at another location?
What are its dimensions (in addition to weighing over 160,000 lbs)?
This merely 130,000 lb tranformer appears to be quite tall.
Here is a Transformer claimed to be 10’ Wide x 17’ Tall x 15’ Long and weighed approximately 160,000 lbs.
The Transformer was 10’ Wide x 17’ Tall x 15’ Long and weighed approximately 160,000 lbs.
Similar to what EdStainless asked, what are the roads it will have to use to get there? What is the unloading area at the destination like?
Will the transformer's size require that wires may have to be moved, if the oil triggers limits on available routes, daytime travel only, certain bridges used, etc and etc.
Those kind of things need to be well understood to developing a route, and a methoc.
Examples of Some trailers with sufficient nominal weight capacity shown here -
How far will the transformer be traveling?
Is going to be scrapped, or refurbished, or installed at another location?
What are its dimensions (in addition to weighing over 160,000 lbs)?
This merely 130,000 lb tranformer appears to be quite tall.
Here is a Transformer claimed to be 10’ Wide x 17’ Tall x 15’ Long and weighed approximately 160,000 lbs.
The Transformer was 10’ Wide x 17’ Tall x 15’ Long and weighed approximately 160,000 lbs.
Similar to what EdStainless asked, what are the roads it will have to use to get there? What is the unloading area at the destination like?
Will the transformer's size require that wires may have to be moved, if the oil triggers limits on available routes, daytime travel only, certain bridges used, etc and etc.
Those kind of things need to be well understood to developing a route, and a methoc.
EdStainless
Materials
I don't care where it is, hire an expert to lift, load, and transport this. They will also have insurance.
I have had guys travel 500 miles to make a lift when moving equipment, it is part of their job.
For road use there are the trailers with a drop center section and 6-9 axles under each end on separate carriages.
There are also ones that are a single bed with 30-60 hydraulically driven wheels that are individually steerable. I have seen these used within plants to move very large pieces of equipment.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
I have had guys travel 500 miles to make a lift when moving equipment, it is part of their job.
For road use there are the trailers with a drop center section and 6-9 axles under each end on separate carriages.
There are also ones that are a single bed with 30-60 hydraulically driven wheels that are individually steerable. I have seen these used within plants to move very large pieces of equipment.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, Plymouth Tube
Interesting discussion. I haven't heard anything about the situation at the receiving end. I can tell you this: if I am at the receiving end of the relocation of an 82 ton piece of equipment and I found out that the sender had not hired professionals to rig, load, tie down, and transport it, I would refuse to receive it. I would not get anywhere near it and I would not allow my people to. WAY TOO MUCH risk of injury and death here.
Remember this: the last thing you want to say from the witness stand in the potential trials is that you took your loading advice from some guys on an online forum whom you do not know, and who had no risk in giving wrong advice.
Remember this: the last thing you want to say from the witness stand in the potential trials is that you took your loading advice from some guys on an online forum whom you do not know, and who had no risk in giving wrong advice.
-
1
- #10
What we haven't asked is what part of the world the OP is working in. I think all the replies so far (including my own) have come from people in countries with well established heavy haulage industries, low public appetites for risk and effectively enforced highway rules. If it's not like that where you are, here's some ideas to start you worrying.
82 Tonnes is an abnormal load, but not beyond the bounds of the everyday abnormal, if you see what I mean. In theory, you ought to be able to move it on a 6 or 7 axle semitrailer even while living within the limits of the relatively restrictive UK (STGO 2000 Cat III) limits for abnormal indivisible loads.
Practice can be different - your aim is to ensure that every axle is within its permitted loading and that you transmit enough (but not too much) weight onto the fifth wheel on the tractor, which depends on:
a. being able to calculate how far forward or aft the cg of your load can sit on the trailer before you blow any of those limits and
b. physically being able to fit the load that far aft or forward on the loadbed.
You need to understand what sort of gradients you will need your rig to negotiate: The steeper the hills it needs to climb, the more traction (function of weight on the driving axles) your tractor will need, and the further forward you will want to position your load. If you can't get the load far enough forward for that, then you'll need to start worrying about using a full trailer instead of a semi, pulled by a ballast tractor. As soon as you do that, your overall train weight skyrockets and bridge crossing becomes a major issue.
On the other hand, if you can't get the cg far enough aft to avoid overloading the tractor (this is a much less common problem), you might have to add a jeep dolly to the system.
You need to understand the height of your load's cg, how quickly it might be driven round bends (this might be quicker than you had intended if you're working in a part of the world where other people think it's helpful to shoot at passing heavy loads), what sort of side-slope you expect to have to negotiate, how fast the side-slope changes and, in particular, if there's anywhere those factors come together. This will guide your choice of trailer width. It's not impossible to roll a combination that seemed quite stable when you set out if your route involves an unexpected shift from one side of a dual carriageway to the other to get round some roadworks. That one also took some explaining, but I was much less closely involved.
You'll need to check that the physical dimensions of the loaded vehicle are acceptable for the journey. Worry most about length at the start end end of the journey and width, height and ground clearance on the highway in between.
The load needs to be attached to the trailer. Properly. Yes, even if you're only going to be going at a slow walking pace. Many people will tell you it stands to reason that something that heavy can't possibly slide off a trailer. These are people who haven't read the laws of physics and, at the subsequent board of Inquiry, will probably be nowhere to be seen. Not that I'm in any way bitter. There's a good guide on the IRU's website.
Depending on where you are and whether you are going to venture out onto the Queen's highway, a move this size is likely to start to attract requirements for prior notification to the authorities, escort vehicles and specific permission from bridge authorities.
In my part of the world (and most people on this forum will be able to say the same) there's a well-established heavy haulage industry that does this sort of job every day, knows all the pitfalls, gets it right almost every time and has good insurance to cover the rare occasion when they mess up. As we've all said before, if you can possibly use one of these specialists, then you should. If that's utterly impossible, then at least go into the job with your eyes open.
A.
82 Tonnes is an abnormal load, but not beyond the bounds of the everyday abnormal, if you see what I mean. In theory, you ought to be able to move it on a 6 or 7 axle semitrailer even while living within the limits of the relatively restrictive UK (STGO 2000 Cat III) limits for abnormal indivisible loads.
Practice can be different - your aim is to ensure that every axle is within its permitted loading and that you transmit enough (but not too much) weight onto the fifth wheel on the tractor, which depends on:
a. being able to calculate how far forward or aft the cg of your load can sit on the trailer before you blow any of those limits and
b. physically being able to fit the load that far aft or forward on the loadbed.
You need to understand what sort of gradients you will need your rig to negotiate: The steeper the hills it needs to climb, the more traction (function of weight on the driving axles) your tractor will need, and the further forward you will want to position your load. If you can't get the load far enough forward for that, then you'll need to start worrying about using a full trailer instead of a semi, pulled by a ballast tractor. As soon as you do that, your overall train weight skyrockets and bridge crossing becomes a major issue.
On the other hand, if you can't get the cg far enough aft to avoid overloading the tractor (this is a much less common problem), you might have to add a jeep dolly to the system.
You need to understand the height of your load's cg, how quickly it might be driven round bends (this might be quicker than you had intended if you're working in a part of the world where other people think it's helpful to shoot at passing heavy loads), what sort of side-slope you expect to have to negotiate, how fast the side-slope changes and, in particular, if there's anywhere those factors come together. This will guide your choice of trailer width. It's not impossible to roll a combination that seemed quite stable when you set out if your route involves an unexpected shift from one side of a dual carriageway to the other to get round some roadworks. That one also took some explaining, but I was much less closely involved.
You'll need to check that the physical dimensions of the loaded vehicle are acceptable for the journey. Worry most about length at the start end end of the journey and width, height and ground clearance on the highway in between.
The load needs to be attached to the trailer. Properly. Yes, even if you're only going to be going at a slow walking pace. Many people will tell you it stands to reason that something that heavy can't possibly slide off a trailer. These are people who haven't read the laws of physics and, at the subsequent board of Inquiry, will probably be nowhere to be seen. Not that I'm in any way bitter. There's a good guide on the IRU's website.
Depending on where you are and whether you are going to venture out onto the Queen's highway, a move this size is likely to start to attract requirements for prior notification to the authorities, escort vehicles and specific permission from bridge authorities.
In my part of the world (and most people on this forum will be able to say the same) there's a well-established heavy haulage industry that does this sort of job every day, knows all the pitfalls, gets it right almost every time and has good insurance to cover the rare occasion when they mess up. As we've all said before, if you can possibly use one of these specialists, then you should. If that's utterly impossible, then at least go into the job with your eyes open.
A.
California is nowhere "rural" as to pertaining to this discussion.
Keith Cress
kcress -
Keith Cress
kcress -
Itsmoked:
We can debate whether CA is rural or not in terms of the availability of the right transport equipment, and the right knowledge and talent to do this kind of heavy lift/transport job. I can’t imagine I’d have any trouble finding the equipment or talent to do the job out there. Plenty of this type of equipment is hauled into and through rural areas, no insurmountable problems there. But, it does give one some serious pause when you think the OP could be coming form the foreman/VP of the rigging company. It certainly seems that E-Tips is attracting more and more people who have no businesses trying to do what they are pretending to do, because they couldn’t engineer their way out of a paper bag which was open at both ends, even if their life depended upon it.
We can debate whether CA is rural or not in terms of the availability of the right transport equipment, and the right knowledge and talent to do this kind of heavy lift/transport job. I can’t imagine I’d have any trouble finding the equipment or talent to do the job out there. Plenty of this type of equipment is hauled into and through rural areas, no insurmountable problems there. But, it does give one some serious pause when you think the OP could be coming form the foreman/VP of the rigging company. It certainly seems that E-Tips is attracting more and more people who have no businesses trying to do what they are pretending to do, because they couldn’t engineer their way out of a paper bag which was open at both ends, even if their life depended upon it.
- Thread starter
- #13
The transformer has to be transported through mud road and not on concrete one.it is in a thermal power plant inside a village.the transformer has to be installed at the receiving end.whether I should prefer low bed trailer or 6 or 7 axle puller for this purpose.there is no steep hills.its around 4 kms length road with some turns and bends.the dimensions of transformer are:
Length:7 mtr
Height: 4 mtrs
Width: 3mtrs.
What should be the load carrying capacity of the trailer????
Length:7 mtr
Height: 4 mtrs
Width: 3mtrs.
What should be the load carrying capacity of the trailer????
Is it an oversimplification to just say allow for 3g's vertical? Bring a whole lot of cribbing for getting the trailer wheels over the mud. The height to width ratio looks bad. Bring a gantry or materials to build a gantry to lift and reload the Xformer back onto the trailer every time it rolls over. Call me if you hit any overhead bridges.
Vipineng:
It just staggers my imagination how you guys will blindly tackle a fairly complicated problem/project, without any experience on the matter, and then keep 75% of the needed design info. secret or maybe you don’t even know or understand what info. is needed. You need to find someone who understands the lifting, rigging and haulage of High, Wide and Heavy Loads, either someone on staff, a consultant who does this kind of engineering, or a contractor who does this kind of work. When you say thermal power plant, do you mean geo-thermal power plant? How did they get the rest of the heavy equipment into that plant? Is there a RR spur into the plant? Where is that plant actually located, will the mud road freeze before you have to make the move? With that expensive an operation and piece of equipment it would seem that a 4km long road could be improved sufficiently to service the power plant. Loads like that can be lifted or slid/skidded on and off the trailer or railcar. While not small, an 82ton; 23' long, by 13' high, by 10' wide transformer is not a particularly large transformer, as these kinds of loads go at large power plants. Several different types of trailers would work to haul your load, in part it depends upon what is available in that area or what can practically brought in to do the job. You would want equipment that would handle the replacement transformer, as well as getting the existing transformer out of the plant. In good part, this is all going to boil down to finding a rigging/heavy haul contractor who will work in that area, and on that size transformer, with the equipment they have available. They will guide you in what needs to be done to move your load, or they will contract the fix the road and everything needed to move the loads from the point of origin to the power plants transformer foundation. You do not have to pick the trailer, they will tell you what they have which will do the job.
It just staggers my imagination how you guys will blindly tackle a fairly complicated problem/project, without any experience on the matter, and then keep 75% of the needed design info. secret or maybe you don’t even know or understand what info. is needed. You need to find someone who understands the lifting, rigging and haulage of High, Wide and Heavy Loads, either someone on staff, a consultant who does this kind of engineering, or a contractor who does this kind of work. When you say thermal power plant, do you mean geo-thermal power plant? How did they get the rest of the heavy equipment into that plant? Is there a RR spur into the plant? Where is that plant actually located, will the mud road freeze before you have to make the move? With that expensive an operation and piece of equipment it would seem that a 4km long road could be improved sufficiently to service the power plant. Loads like that can be lifted or slid/skidded on and off the trailer or railcar. While not small, an 82ton; 23' long, by 13' high, by 10' wide transformer is not a particularly large transformer, as these kinds of loads go at large power plants. Several different types of trailers would work to haul your load, in part it depends upon what is available in that area or what can practically brought in to do the job. You would want equipment that would handle the replacement transformer, as well as getting the existing transformer out of the plant. In good part, this is all going to boil down to finding a rigging/heavy haul contractor who will work in that area, and on that size transformer, with the equipment they have available. They will guide you in what needs to be done to move your load, or they will contract the fix the road and everything needed to move the loads from the point of origin to the power plants transformer foundation. You do not have to pick the trailer, they will tell you what they have which will do the job.
The rig below was used to carry all the major components for a 750MW powerplant 180 miles across the Navajo reservation, on nothing more than the roads created to plant the transmission towers. It had to ford several arroyos, too. There were no roads wide enough, no rail to the area. This included the main power transformers, which were about the size of the OP's. The truck was built just for the job, and is still around somewhere. "Impressive" to say the least.
The number of axles on a trailer will dictate the load that the trailer can carry. Each state DOT have their requirement on axle configuration and loading, so if you are involved in interstate transportation, you'll need to get a copy of their requirement, probably select a route, and have an escort service. Here are pictures of an multi axle dolly used in the transportation in the transportation of an 80 ton/ 80' long box beam just to give you an idea of what's involved.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
- Question