How do employers view online master's programs? 9

[Lion06]

Can anyone in a hiring role (or management position) give any insight as to how an online structural (or any other discipline for that matter) engineering degree is looked upon? I am considering U of Idaho because it will allow me to "attend" class on my own schedule, but don't want to spend the time if it is looked down on by colleagues and managers.

 

[JAE]

You'd probably want to simply call their Admissions office or the Engineering office of each school directly to discuss.

 

[possumk]

I found this link as I was doing my own search on this topic:

http://distance.gradschools.com/

You can follow the menus and get a list of schools with your engineering discipline. It's probably not all-inclusive, but it gives you a start.

 

[possumk]

You may have seen my own earlier post regarding how much an online engineering masters degree is worth compared to an on-campus degree.

The two deciding factors for me will be intent and alternatives. Hope this might help you in your decision.

Intent - How do I want the degree to help me in my career?

1.Do I want to gain new knowledge to use at my current company, whether in my current position or to help with earning a promotion?
2. Do I want to branch into a new field or area of specialization?
3. Do I want to use the degree as a stepping stone to an academic career?

Alternatives - How will I achieve 1, 2, or 3 above without resorting to distance education?

1. Is part time work/part time school feasible at a local university? (Is the local university's program better/worse than potential distance program?)
2. Can I financially manage doing a full-time Master's program (local/relocate)?
3. Is my OTJ education enough to get ahead without the Master's?
4. Can I get a job in another industry by just transferring skills I already have?

'Course the ultimate factor for me is supporting the fam. I don't think I can afford a 75% pay cut, so it's distance education or none at all!

 

[Lion06]

possumk-
I did not see your other post that you mention. Can you direct me to it?

 

[possumk]

StructEIT-

The thread is: thread731-184279

 

[Qshake]

StructuralEIT -

On the matter of the inquiries posted on 22 April.

Opinions on MSCE/BSCE regardless of circumstances - For the most part I do, and the circumstances would have to be impressive. As I noted earlier, I am willing to interview and hire the MSCE with time between undergraduate work if that is what I'm looking for. However, since I'm engaged in technology work too, it benefits our group to have MSCE with lab work which is generally earned immediately following undergraduate. And please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all MSCE with lab experience (or even without) are the best, I've interviewed many of MSCE candidates that didn't seem to have their feet on the ground.

Regarding certificate programs - The ones I've seen are typically 3-4 classes or 9-12 hours of instruction. As with JAE, I value coursework done post degree. However, I would note that it would depend a lot on what the coursework was.

In my opinion I do beleive students in a masters program learn things not learned on the job. My opinion doesn't change for someone with 8-10 years of experience unless that experience is very impressive and the individual has clearly performed at a level exceeding the expectations of most engineers.


I've read JAE's post and agree with his assessment, the MSCE degree provided me with tools beyond that offered at the BSCE level and futher fueled my interest in pursuing a third degree in an emerging technology. That has opened an additional set of tools that I can offer clients and my staff.


Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[Lion06]

As far as the online MS goes - USC offers an online MS for Structural Engineering and that school is in the top ten according to US News and World Report.
I had my 1-year review recently and I will most likely be starting a MS program this fall.
I was surprised to hear some of what my boss had to say about a master's program. He said most of it can be self-taught, but the benefit of going through a program is that you are allotting specific time slots to sit down and learn it (obviously the guidance of a professor helps).

 

[plasgears]

The online masters program invites abuse. My boss used his sec'y to type his homework and mail in his packages. It was a masters program from the NE. The sec'y did not enjoy the experience, and she complained frequently about it.

 

[GregLocock]

Do you think that typing and mailing are essential parts of a Masters in Engineering?

Cheers

Greg Locock

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

 

[271828]

StrlEIT typed: "...I was surprised to hear some of what my boss had to say about a master's program. He said most of it can be self-taught, but the benefit of going through a program is that you are allotting specific time slots to sit down and learn it (obviously the guidance of a professor helps)."

I think your boss is correct. Sure, one COULD sit down with a book and crank through the whole thing without a class, but I don't know anybody who would do that!

For one thing, just add up the number of hours it would take. A busy design engineer isn't going to obliterate every evening and weekend for months on end to self-teach finite element analysis, for example.

Without some serious motivation (like a degree), it would be kinda sad if somebody DID do that, IMO, LOLOL.

 

[Qshake]

271828 -

A diploma should never be the means to an end but rahter an end to the means. I didn't earn a BS, MS because the papers look good. In fact, I don't care at all that I earned a diploma but that I had the opportunity to learn and understand. That is what I paid the University for, not for the diploma.

That said, it is a rare person indeed who can sit down and learn a full subject of complex material and then to do so in say 16 weeks (a semester). It takes some professors years to provide course content that is up to date why would a person expect to learn FEA in 16 short weeks by independent stduy.

Of course, there are those courses that can be learned via independent study, for me those are design classes and examples are Wood and Masonry

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[271828]

Qshake, I kinda agree with your first paragraph. I think it's just too much to expect most people to self-study most grad level classes without a degree hanging in the balance.

That's all I was saying--perhaps ineffectively!

 

[Lion06]

Ego's and stories aside, have you found FEA to be helpful in your actual work environment?
I have heard from meany people that have taken it that it is interesting but is meant for programs and you will never use it for hand calcs. I certainly have no intention of taking it.
I will be attending Villanova in the fall and I intend to spend my (10) classes on practical classes - advanced steel, advanced concrete, wood and masonry, prestressed concrete, structural dynamics, etc...

 

[Qshake]

StructuralEIT, funny you should add structural dynamics to your list and leave out FEA as a non-practical method not lending itself to handcalcs. Structural Dynamics is the application of models and differential equations and beyond a simple 2DOF system, computers are required.

What you gain from structural dynamics and FEA and the others is an appreciation for the theory, applications and why the code is presented as it is.

In both advanced steel and concrete you should see topics like torsion on steel boxes and two way slabs/yield line theory....neither of which are particularly helpful in hand calculations but both can be done by FEA if done right.

Lastly, your assuming that many in the forum are civil/structural, but what about the engineering mechanics folks for whom FEA is just another tool like your concrete and steel.



Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[271828]

StrlEIT, I wouldn't say that I ever did hand calcs or programmed with FEA on the job, but it's important to know about what the programs are doing. There are lots of gotchas in modeling that might not be obvious otherwise and shells are often used in models nowadays.

Here's the first example that comes to mind. Say you have a shearwall modeled with shells and a beam is connected to one of the nodes in the wall. Depending on your situation, you might get in trouble with the "drilling" degree of freedom. This should be completely obvious after coming out of a FEA class. Folks might somehow get that one anyway, especially because the Help in some common programs mention it, but I think it's a fair example.

 

[271828]

Qshake, not really disagreeing with you, but if I had to choose one or the other for a designer, I'd rather see them know something about strl dynamics than FEA. Those terms can be completely baffling otherwise!

This reminds me of something--complete thread tangent. I've just spent quite a bit of time with the upcoming UK SCI floor vibration design guide. Those guys sure expect designers to know a lot more about vibrations than we do in the US!! They have a "simplified" method that's about 50% harder than AISC's DG11 Chapter 4 and a "general" method that is probably hard enough to deter pretty much anybody I know from trying to use it, vibe specialists excluded of course.

 

[prohammy]

This thread has been going for quite a while now, and I think I have shown great restraint so far (honestly, I have wanted to post this from the second I saw this thread StructuralEIT and I do apologise)

BUT....

QUESTION: How do employers view online master's programs?

ANSWER: By logging on to the internet! TAA DAA

And again...Sorry for being frivalous

Kevin

“Insanity in individuals is something rare, but in groups, parties, nations and epochs it is the rule” Nietzsche

 

[Lion06]

QSHAKE-
Are you saying that graduate classes will help you with nothing more than to have a better understanding of what the software is doing since you most likely won't actually use many things learned in an advanced steel or concrete class either?
Also, I wasn't assuming that everyone else in the forum was civil/structural, but that is what is relevant to me so that is all I would concern myself with in choosing classes.

 

[Qshake]

structuraleit -

I'm noting that the courses you've chosen (as with most graduate courses) the material is not trivial and as such is not usually done by hand. You will be required to do the analysis by hand with the aide of some computer programs for your homework or projects. But come exam time it will hand calcs unless a take home is given.

What is intended by the college/professor is that you understand how the method of solution is derived and the restrictions placed on the method of solution. These restrictions are often regurgitated in the code thus you'll have a better understanding of why AISC or ACI has developed the code they have. You'll be able to see when the code is applicable and when it is not. And in the real world beyond simple structures it doesn't often fit right in nice and neatly. Lastly you'll understand the software that is used to apply to these applications (boxes or slabs).

In my career (academic and professional) I have only found the usual design courses to be immediately applicable to use and with hand calculations. Those include timber, masonry, and prestressed concrete which are all taught at the graduate level. Most everything else is too complicated.

as for the FEA, you first asked if it was useful as a course. My response is that for some engineers the course is very useful because they use it day in day out just as we use tools such as concrete or steel design.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[tcguy]

I am in a similar position and am looking for suggestions. I have been in my current job function for almost a year now (mechanical design engineer for a top Automotive OEM Manufacturer). I have been thinking alot about getting my MS degree lately. I have been looking into one of these new "hybrid" degrees...MS in Product Development Engineering. I work about 10 minutes from the University of Michigan but unfortunately they don't have a masters program in product development engineering. The reason I want this degree is to blend business and engineering aspects into one degree which will allow me to be a better product development and design engineer. I have been looking at the online DEN MS program and University of Southern California in Product Development Engineering and this is looking very attractive to me. I will have the grades and test scores to get in here, the question is how would it be perceived? It's quite obvious that the degree is online because I work in Michigan and the school is in Cali. Should I just go for it? I mean, the curriculum/degree would allow me to be a more competent engineer and expand my skill and knowledge set. I wish Univ. of Michigan offered this degree but they don't, and all other schools in Michigan are too far away from where I work/live to effectively commute, work, and go to school. What do you guys think about my situation? USC is a very well known and highly regarded school with a well known, regarded, and ranked engineering school. At this point, I don't want to give up my job, which I love, or the salary, which I need, to go to school full time. Plus, work will cover most of the bill. Suggestions? Comments? Thanks in advance.