Has anyone had a serious look at this: Burning saline to generate heat

[tinfoil]

Seems ridiculous, but who knows?

http://www.wpbf.com/news/13383827/detail.html

 

[IRstuff]

That's basically absurd.

Disassociating water to burn the hydrogen results in what?

WATER!!

Any other claimed result has to be absurd.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[Zoobie]

It slices and dices, cures cancer, solves the world energy problems, travels through time, and picks winning lottery numbers...and if you buy now we'll throw in a set of steak knives. How much do you think this is worth.... For the next 20 minutes you can have this wonderful device for not $1 million, not $100,000....only 3 easy payments of $39.95.

 

[dcasto]

I tried to see how many watts it was using, that would be fun. It looked like mid range was 500 watts which would be .67 HP. The Rider-Ericsson heat engine looked like it might go .2 HP, Hummmm put in .67 HP get .2 HP out????

 

[peebee]

That's some dark science there.... If he dropped that thing at the beach it could vaporize the planet!!!

 

[STYMIEDPIPER]

maybe he needs to test the water in his canal to see what is in it--maybe there is some unique chemical leaking into the canal that he is not aware of!!

 

[Zoobie]

I think the unique chemical is in his drinking water!

 

[rmw]

But wait!!! But wait!!! if you buy the knife set we will throw in a free fruit and vegetable dicer.

rmw

 

[schwarz]

Hi,
Einstein gave the equation e=mc2, that theoretically means that you can get huge energy out of small matter. As everyone here I am also skeptical, however did any one notice magic of falling Apple, or splashing water before Newton and Archmedes?

 

[dcasto]

schwarz, So you think is "nuked" the water and that is a fussion reaction taking place? Or maybe antimatter?

 

[peebee]

You'd think if he'd really got this thing working by now it would have shown up somewhere besides the WPBF website. Like a patent office or science journal.

 

[IRstuff]

Well, EVERYONE knows that there's a government conspiracy to keep such inventions locked up or otherwise unexploited.

TTFN

FAQ731-376

 

[kenvlach]

Didn't we debunk this quack earlier; maybe the thread got deleted?

Anyway, the following is wrong:
"Kanzius said the flame created from his machine reaches a temperature of around 3,000 degrees Farenheit [sic]. He said a chemist told him that the immense heat created from the machine breaks down the hydrogen-oxygen bond in the water, igniting the hydrogen."

An oxygen-hydrogen flame can reach a temperature of 2900 K* (4760 °F), so
1) water won't break down (significantly) at a measly 3000 °F, and
2) if it did, the heat required would be equal to that from combustion of the hydrogen & oxygen created. I.e., no gain.

*

http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=4753818

 

[schwarz]

dcosta, nothing nuclear about it. Just to repeat tinfoil- "Seems ridiculous, but who knows?". I merely tried to say initially most discoveries are looked upon on with ridicule.

 

[dcasto]

Just off boat from Hawai'i, energy is energy, un less you smash an atom to get E=mc^2, the ethalphy and entrophy must add up and not be a net gaim.

 

[schwarz]

Hi All, Interesting reading:Researchers at Purdue University have further developed a technology that could represent a pollution-free energy source. The technology produces hydrogen by adding water to an alloy of aluminum and gallium

http://www.poweronline.com/content/news/article.asp?docid=13de9a33-6971-448d-9f7d-572d234ef0c4

 

[kenvlach]

schwarz,
It's better to start a new thread (especially, don't append upon a nonsensical burning of saltwater thread!).

Re the Purdue idea, which briefly uses gallium to enhance the corrosion of aluminum:
Al + 3 H₂O = Al(OH)₃ + 3/2 H₂(gas)

Metal finishers (anodizers, platers, extruders) have long used the etching reaction
2 Al + 2 NaOH --> 2 NaAlO₂ + H₂(gas)

This reaction was used during World War I by the US Army to generate H₂ in the field for spotter balloons. The Iraqi Army in early 2001 had almost identical trailers for H₂ generation (mis-identified as bio-weapons labs).

Eco-Tec has a caustic soda (NaOH) recovery unit which recovers the NaOH for further use, and hydrated alumina which goes to a primary aluminum producers for Al recovery. It uses the well-known Bayer process (a hydrolysis reaction):
2 NaAlO₂ + 4H₂O --> 2 NaOH + Al₂O₃^.3H₂O

Combining the latter 2 reactions and simplifying,

2 Al + 4H₂O --> Al₂O₃^.3H₂O + H₂(gas)

Not as much hydrogen per aluminum, but it doesn't require gallium (which is of limited supply, with price being driven up by semiconductor mfrs.).

 

[25362]

To kenvlach, just for the sake of balancing out the oxygen in the equations, the second one should be:

2 Al + 2 NaOH + 2 H₂O => 2 NaAlO₂ + 3 H₂

The last one would become:

2 Al + 6 H₂O => Al₂O₃.3H₂O + 3 H₂

With the same amount of hydrogen per aluminum as in the Purdue idea. Agree ?

 

[dcasto]

great, then you have to add energy to get your metals back to start over again. Its just a battery and an expensive one at that.

 

[kenvlach]

Thanks, 25362. I did that in the wee hours of the morning. Looks 3x better!

dcasto, aluminum is a good fuel in terms of high heat of combustion/weight; that's why it's used in solid fuel rockets. However, can't use directly in an IC engine due to alumina combustion product. So, it's good that people are looking at closed-loop alternatives. However, the Purdue Univ. story has a big hole in it:
"Enough aluminum exists in the United States to produce 100 trillion kilowatt hours of energy. That's enough energy to meet all the U.S. electric needs for 35 years."

Overlooks the fact that that is merely recovering the enormous amount of electricity used in producing the aluminum from its oxide. So, no net gain. But, it's easier to stockpile aluminum than hydrogen or other forms of electricity or thermal energy.