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Global Document and Drawing control 1
- Thread starter mlh
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Yes you can protect the document using Microsoft Word. Goto 'tools' then 'options' then security. There are passwords to set for opening and a separate password for modifying. There are likely other ways to do this but this in one I use regularly.
I am not quite sure about protecting the drawing within the document itself. This will likely have to be done through explorer-read only (before pasting into word) or perhaps in the drawing program you use. One note if you use explorer, the document can still be copied and then the copied version can have the 'read' only removed and be modified.
I am not quite sure about protecting the drawing within the document itself. This will likely have to be done through explorer-read only (before pasting into word) or perhaps in the drawing program you use. One note if you use explorer, the document can still be copied and then the copied version can have the 'read' only removed and be modified.
Try printing them to Adobe PDF format. That way the document can be made available for anyone with the free reader. You keep the native documents (Word, AutoCAD etc) and only make available the read only PDF files.
To print PDF files there are some shareware programs or you can get the full version of Adobe for $CDN 400 ($US 250). This enables you to print as well as to use the other features of PDF documents.
You can enable annotations on the documents and also have digital signatures if necessary. If you are using the PDF Distiller you can use internal hyperlinks for say an index to jump to other parts of the document.
The resulting PDF file can also be smaller than the native document. This is especially true if you have a lot of pictures in the document. I had an Excel file with several imbedded pictures in it. The native XLS file was 15 Meg and the PDF was 1.6 Meg.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
To print PDF files there are some shareware programs or you can get the full version of Adobe for $CDN 400 ($US 250). This enables you to print as well as to use the other features of PDF documents.
You can enable annotations on the documents and also have digital signatures if necessary. If you are using the PDF Distiller you can use internal hyperlinks for say an index to jump to other parts of the document.
The resulting PDF file can also be smaller than the native document. This is especially true if you have a lot of pictures in the document. I had an Excel file with several imbedded pictures in it. The native XLS file was 15 Meg and the PDF was 1.6 Meg.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
Below is a link to generate a pdf that I have never tried yet using games with "print to file". You may find it useful.
Any electronic document can be manipulated to print whatever is desired.
The problem with PDF, is that you'll never be sure if:
a) PDF process was clean
b) PDF was of the absolute latest release.
PDF requires an additional step to every document generated, which may not be desirable.
Most on-line document management systems allow you to download most current file, BUT, your company procedure should be that ONLY the most current release in the document manager is the valid. This is consistent with ISO 9000 requirements. The document manager will then have a revision scheme that allows you toa:
a) retain all versions of document history
b) track changes to documents by user
TTFN
The problem with PDF, is that you'll never be sure if:
a) PDF process was clean
b) PDF was of the absolute latest release.
PDF requires an additional step to every document generated, which may not be desirable.
Most on-line document management systems allow you to download most current file, BUT, your company procedure should be that ONLY the most current release in the document manager is the valid. This is consistent with ISO 9000 requirements. The document manager will then have a revision scheme that allows you toa:
a) retain all versions of document history
b) track changes to documents by user
TTFN
- Thread starter
- #7
IRstuff:
If no printed document is valid does that mean that you need to provide workstation terminals to enable worker access to documents like drawings or is there a means to produce an "official" hard-copy out of the document manager?
If no printed document is valid does that mean that you need to provide workstation terminals to enable worker access to documents like drawings or is there a means to produce an "official" hard-copy out of the document manager?
That's the plan. Either the worker has a terminal or has access to one.
There is technically no such thing as an "official hard copy", as once it's printed, there is no longer any configuration control nor is there any guarantee of freshness. Most such documents have a caveat at the bottom of each sheet to effect that any hard copy is uncontrolled
TTFN
There is technically no such thing as an "official hard copy", as once it's printed, there is no longer any configuration control nor is there any guarantee of freshness. Most such documents have a caveat at the bottom of each sheet to effect that any hard copy is uncontrolled
TTFN
Where I work, it is understood that only hard copies are official. The understanding is that electronic (mostly CAD) copies can be manipulated. You said this is an ISO requirement? Is there any other mentionables for document control laid out in ISO requirements?
ISO requires that everyone in the organization have ready access to the most recent and valid documents. This would require hundreds of hard copy documents to be generated for each release. The problem is what happens if there is a newer release?
There is nothing that a paper document can do to prove that it is the most recent document and that there is no newer document. The holder must then go somewhere to verify the correctness of the document, which is counter productive.
What happens if a page of a document gets lost? Again, the holder must go somewhere and track down another hard copy. Again, counter productive.
What happens if 2nd shift needs the most recent document? Most document control operations are single shift or only part-time. Again, counter productive.
Having online documentation that's under document control and condfiguration management allows everyone to get access immediately, without delay and with the surety that there is no newer document, since a newer document would be posted online as soon as its released.
TTFN
There is nothing that a paper document can do to prove that it is the most recent document and that there is no newer document. The holder must then go somewhere to verify the correctness of the document, which is counter productive.
What happens if a page of a document gets lost? Again, the holder must go somewhere and track down another hard copy. Again, counter productive.
What happens if 2nd shift needs the most recent document? Most document control operations are single shift or only part-time. Again, counter productive.
Having online documentation that's under document control and condfiguration management allows everyone to get access immediately, without delay and with the surety that there is no newer document, since a newer document would be posted online as soon as its released.
TTFN
buzzp wrote: "Where I work, it is understood that only hard copies are official. The understanding is that electronic (mostly CAD) copies can be manipulated. You said this is an ISO requirement?"
IRstuff wrote: "There is nothing that a paper document can do to prove that it is the most recent document and that there is no newer document."
There is certainly no requirement in ISO 9002 (or 9001) that a system be either electronic or paper based. The documentation needs to be controlled as part of a larger system. In a paper-based system (or a system in which the final manufacturing documentation is paper), it could be as simple as a filing cabinet with folders for each assembly to be built. Assemblers are trained to pull the documentation from the cabinets and return it when they're done. When a change is made through the ECO process, the folder is updated with the new information. Changes can't happen willy nilly whenever an engineer wants to make one; there is a formal change process in place that controls changes and they're implementation. If a job is in process or complete, the disposition of that job - rework, use as is - is resolved as part of the change process.
It's easy to envision how an electronic system would work. But if you think about it, most electronic systems would have the same problem as a hard copy one. The assembler pulls the PDF of the assembly print up on his massive D-size (34" X 22" for my non-American friends) monitor and gets to work. Meanwhile, the electronic copy is changed. The assembler is unaware of the change; the software doesn't notice, because the file was opened by the assembler as read-only. The assembly gets buuilt wrong. Of course, safegaurds can be built into the software (hopefully your company isn't footing the entire bill), but it adds more complexity and cost.
One practical solution is to use effectivity dates and procedures that dictate, for example, that documentation updates are made once a day at 8:00 am. Assembly training & procedures instruct assemblers to "refresh" (hit the refresh button on their browser or walk over and get any updates to the folder) at 8 every morning if they're in the middle of a job. If they're not, it's a nonissue.
Neither hard nor soft copies are a silver bullet gauranteeing control. It's the system and employees' adherance to it. Nothing can stop someone from wilfully ignoring the rules.
Rob Campbell
IRstuff wrote: "There is nothing that a paper document can do to prove that it is the most recent document and that there is no newer document."
There is certainly no requirement in ISO 9002 (or 9001) that a system be either electronic or paper based. The documentation needs to be controlled as part of a larger system. In a paper-based system (or a system in which the final manufacturing documentation is paper), it could be as simple as a filing cabinet with folders for each assembly to be built. Assemblers are trained to pull the documentation from the cabinets and return it when they're done. When a change is made through the ECO process, the folder is updated with the new information. Changes can't happen willy nilly whenever an engineer wants to make one; there is a formal change process in place that controls changes and they're implementation. If a job is in process or complete, the disposition of that job - rework, use as is - is resolved as part of the change process.
It's easy to envision how an electronic system would work. But if you think about it, most electronic systems would have the same problem as a hard copy one. The assembler pulls the PDF of the assembly print up on his massive D-size (34" X 22" for my non-American friends) monitor and gets to work. Meanwhile, the electronic copy is changed. The assembler is unaware of the change; the software doesn't notice, because the file was opened by the assembler as read-only. The assembly gets buuilt wrong. Of course, safegaurds can be built into the software (hopefully your company isn't footing the entire bill), but it adds more complexity and cost.
One practical solution is to use effectivity dates and procedures that dictate, for example, that documentation updates are made once a day at 8:00 am. Assembly training & procedures instruct assemblers to "refresh" (hit the refresh button on their browser or walk over and get any updates to the folder) at 8 every morning if they're in the middle of a job. If they're not, it's a nonissue.
Neither hard nor soft copies are a silver bullet gauranteeing control. It's the system and employees' adherance to it. Nothing can stop someone from wilfully ignoring the rules.
Rob Campbell
From the posts, I was thinking that electronic document control is the only way to be ISO compliant. I am glad that this is not the case (based on last post). There are issues with both.
Electronic- there is no way to know that it is official without using an electronic signature (that is not easily reproducable). Electronic, read-only files, are easily changed to read, modify, write documents by copying. Think about a PE stamp (do they have electronic PE stamps?).
Paper- located in one location for all master documents with a stamp of approval. It may not be the best way to handle updates but if procedures are in place for changes then it is not an issue.
One note, I favor an electronic filing system with well written procedures for controlling the documents (drawings moved to working folder so one knows it is in process of being modified and by whom for retrieval).
Electronic- there is no way to know that it is official without using an electronic signature (that is not easily reproducable). Electronic, read-only files, are easily changed to read, modify, write documents by copying. Think about a PE stamp (do they have electronic PE stamps?).
Paper- located in one location for all master documents with a stamp of approval. It may not be the best way to handle updates but if procedures are in place for changes then it is not an issue.
One note, I favor an electronic filing system with well written procedures for controlling the documents (drawings moved to working folder so one knows it is in process of being modified and by whom for retrieval).
You're confusing putting a document on a disk server vs a document management program. Files on a disk can be changed, changed files in a document management system are automatically un-released in accordance with the configuration control procedure in the program
Document management programs such as Windchill and Matrix have sign-off procedures built into the documentation release process, including signature release through email from the appropriate parties. If you see a released document, it WAS released and it's the LATEST release. There is no ambiguity or question.
The released document cannot be changed without being checked out and re-entered, at which time, the program will flag it as unreleased, if it hasn't been approved.
Unauthorized users cannot access files except as read-only. So long as there is no intentional breaching of the process, the program works extremely well and eliminates having to print out a gazillion hard copies that MUST be distributed and maintained.
Windchill has viewers for some file formats, but for drawings, we generally scan them in as PDF files, signatures, stamps and all.
TTFN
Document management programs such as Windchill and Matrix have sign-off procedures built into the documentation release process, including signature release through email from the appropriate parties. If you see a released document, it WAS released and it's the LATEST release. There is no ambiguity or question.
The released document cannot be changed without being checked out and re-entered, at which time, the program will flag it as unreleased, if it hasn't been approved.
Unauthorized users cannot access files except as read-only. So long as there is no intentional breaching of the process, the program works extremely well and eliminates having to print out a gazillion hard copies that MUST be distributed and maintained.
Windchill has viewers for some file formats, but for drawings, we generally scan them in as PDF files, signatures, stamps and all.
TTFN
We have a series of databases set up for controlling our documents electronically. The "released" database is browsable by all through the company intranet. We also have a ECO generation and sign-off database that immediately flags the intranet one that an ECO is in process. It does this as soon as you type the drawing number into the change form. It also indicates the state that the ECO is in (initiated, approved). This allows manufacturing to proceed using the approved ECO documentation without having to wait for the updated drawing file. The actual drawing files are kept on a separate server or drive with access limited only to the CAD group. The model/drawing is updated and a browser compatible file is placed out onto the general access server. All drawings/procedures have an "Uncontrolled if Printed" designation on them.
ISO does not really care how you control your drawings/documents as long as you do have an acceptable procedure and follow it. Depending upon the organization size and type of work, electronic control may not be desirable. In one location that I worked, only original ink stamped and signed/dated drawings were considered controlled. No more than 5 controlled copies (engineering, procurement, QA, Manufacturing, Service) were allowed and all had to be collected/destroyed at the next revision. If you have a lot of drawings, that can be cumbersome.
Choose a system wisely.
Regards,
ISO does not really care how you control your drawings/documents as long as you do have an acceptable procedure and follow it. Depending upon the organization size and type of work, electronic control may not be desirable. In one location that I worked, only original ink stamped and signed/dated drawings were considered controlled. No more than 5 controlled copies (engineering, procurement, QA, Manufacturing, Service) were allowed and all had to be collected/destroyed at the next revision. If you have a lot of drawings, that can be cumbersome.
Choose a system wisely.
Regards,
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