European Wiring

[tpower]

Hi there,

Our electrical shop currently is producing UL listed and conforming to NEC 2005 industrial panels with controls for our heavy duty conveyor systems. Typically our conveyors are linked into other controls systems and so we try and not play the role of the systems integrator, rather just provide controls for our hydraulic power unit and floor.

We produce panels for US, Mexico, Japan, Australia, and China without any problems.

Currently our power units and controls are outsourced for European jobs because of local wiring codes and regulations. I'm in question to what we need to do in order to bring that work back to our panel shop.

The format for the drawings I've seen are very different. Where can I learn this format? Is it necessary?

If we use strictly TUV listed devices, will this be suitable for installation in the European market?

What other documents are similar to NEC and would we need to comform to, in order to start producing panels for installation in Europe?

Any help or direction is wonderful. Thank you.

 

[ScottyUK]

A couple of European Union standards to have a look at:

Low Voltage Directive
Machinery Directive

Then there is the 'CE Marking' process to follow

And this is before you reach individual country-specific requirements.

No, just relying on TUV components won't keep you out of the weeds. You can fall foul of a lot of legislation - it is a long time since I was involved in product development, that was in the early 90's and I don't think it has gotten any easier since. Could you pay for the design to be carried out by a European design house and manufacture in your own facility?


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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[tpower]

My company produces 95% of our product in house and does not like to do any sort of outsourcing. I think they would be very against using a European design house even if we built it here.

The idea is to just teach the engineer (me ) how to do it.

I'll check out those directives.

Do you mean to tell me that even if we have the CE Marking on our product, we will need to then apply local electrical codes? Our product and panel is stand-alone with the exception of remote PLC inputs in some cases to control the conveyor. So all we need from the plant is a power drop and field wiring to the sensors. Local electricians doing the installtion should be up on their own code...?

 

[ScottyUK]

I can't speak with authority for all of Europe but there are certain parts of the UK electrical standards which are not harmonised with Europe yet. Some of the European stuff like the two directives I listed plus a few others like the PSSR Regulations and DSEAR are mandatory. The local standards for each country, e.g. those published by BSI in the UK, might not technically be a legal requirement per se, but if you choose not to comply with them then you need an armour-plated reason why you think you know better than the standards writers and to be able to defend that reasoning in the (hopefully unlikely) event of something going wrong because the standards are taken as 'best practice'. Your client in many ways has similar or greater reponsibility than you to ensure that he purchases and installs appropriate equipment.


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Sometimes I only open my mouth to swap feet...

 

[dede61]

In addition to what ScottyUK has mentioned, ROHS and WEEE directives are comming into play also.

regards

 

[Blackcountryman]

Look at "IEC 60204-1 Safety of Machinery - Electrical Equipment of Machines - Part 1 General Requirements." This standard in the UK has the reference BS EN 60204-1. The BS signifies a British Standard the EN is a Euro Norm or European standard.
The IEC & BS EN versions will be basically the same with minor regional differences, for example before the cable colours where standardised for 3 phase these would have been in the regional variations.
If you meet the requirements of BS EN 60204-1 the product will be acceptable in other EU countries in most cases.

The documents ScottyUK mentioned are not standards but in effect EU law which in turn is incorporated in each countries law. They say at a very high level what you must achieve but not how to do it. ScottyUK is right in saying that you do not have to comply with the standards but in most cases it is the easiest way of showing complience with the directives.

I think you are right to want to understand the requirements and do it yourself. We have just been working with a large US organisation. They are a good customer for us in the US and now they are expanding in the UK they want to use their own engineering team to design the UK facilities. We have had engineers from the UK over in the US explaining the differences. The areas they have had most problems with are a)Safety, b)Power distribution and c)Motor Starting.

Hope this is of help
John

 

[coconutalley]

You could also tap into UL Office [I know NY longisland does], usually they have on staff experts from around the world. In Europe, leakages to ground are more strict, many places do not ground metal, you have to fuse each line, spacing are different, etc. Wire color codes are also different.

 

[tpower]

This is beginning to become a huge endeavor!

Thanks for all the input!

 

[dbaird]

You don't have to shoulder the burden of "CE" conformity alone as there is several companies that who so purpose in life is to help you with that. On several projects we have used:

http://www.techintl.com/home_US.cfm

They have all the Euro standards and knowledge base. We found the cost of using them was worth what it would otherwise have cost us in time and futility.



David Baird

Sr Controls Designer
EET degree.
Journeyman Electrician.