Education and Licensing 1

[Arparker]

I am currently in community college part time to become a civil engineer and plan on transferring to a university in 2017. How ever I have only been able to find one school with a part-time program and its called "general engineering". From what I understand its for majors that aren't going to be specifically doing engineering work its for pre-law, pre-med majors and business and basically gives you a general idea of mechanical, civil, and electrical. Can I manipulate that degree and instead of taking classes in all the different engineers just take classes in civil engineering? You still get a BA in engineering science and I want to get my F.E. then my P.E. When I reviewed the qualifications on the PA board website it didn't say you had to complete your schooling in four years or at the full time level. So, I can't understand why a lot of colleges at least within the Philadelphia area don't allow for part time students to major in Engineering. I attached the general engineering description to this from Temple University. Can anyone please help? There's no way all the engineers in PA went to school full time. And I just don't have the option to go full time. I pay out of pocket for my tuition and in order to pay for tuition I have to work.

 

[bimr]

"While this is true, I know quite a few people who got engineering degrees from Georgia Tech who went on to law school or medical school after undergrad, without a lot of the "pre-___" coursework. Turns out, part of what gets you into med school or law school is simply being smart, and focused."

Correct. If there is a room with students with a psy major, elem. edu. major, phy ed. major, pre-med (whatever that is), eng. major, they will teach to the lowest common denominator.

 

[jayrod12]

I disagree that college education doesn't prepare you. I did the college then university path (in Canada) and wouldn't of changed a thing. My college education gave me practical applicable knowledge (i.e. how to design and detail standard members and connections, how to determine the loads using the building code, foundation design). The education was geared towards making draftspeople that could design minor items. That education got me a job with a structural firm doing design and drafting. I worked for a couple of years and then went back and finished my degree.

I was appalled at how terribly the university education was preparing people for real world problems. The university course work and projects were geared towards the research fields (in all disciplines from what I observed) and little to none of what I did felt directly applicable to real world problems.

I learned more stuff that I use every day in the field in college than I did in university.

 

[Arparker]

Mike,
Because I'm not fresh out of high school actually next year will be 10 years. Lol. All university's at least in PA have this thing called general education courses you have to take first before you actually start in your program. Its like English, pre calc, stuff like that. That's all I'm taking at my community college before transferring to Temple. I'm not even taking Engineering courses. Just my basics because its cheaper and the same shit. Its actually what Temple advised since I pay out of pocket for tuition. I completely understand what you are saying though. I am still a bit nervous about engineering school, but its really what I want to do.

 

[Ron]

Arparker...nothing wrong with getting the "University College" courses out of the way at a community college. They are part of being well rounded as an engineer, but not particularly germaine to an actual engineering course of study. To me, that shows good judgment on your part and the ability to solve issues as they arise....qualities necessary to be a professional engineer.

I agree with others that university curricula have a significant divide between academia and actual practice. Being involved in both worlds (I teach at a regional university and I practice engineering on a daily basis), I know clearly the disconnect between academia and practicality. I try very hard to close that gap in my coursework; however, it is increasingly difficult with the academic administrative restrictions and requirements that are placed on those teaching the courses. As an example, I see instructors who are full time faculty members who have never spent a day in actual practice. They don't deal with the dynamic of an engineering practice and they don't have to solve issues that require immediate judgment and still maintain the health, safety and welfare of the public while doing so.

Don't get me wrong. There are some terrific, hard working and very effective professors who "get it" and pass it along to their students. Students who get these professors are fortunate, indeed.

Your formal education is but one step in the process. It opens doors to allow you to really learn engineering and to deal with what you learn in actual application. I've learned tremendously more in my years since graduation than I could have ever learned in an academic setting. I'm sure others feel the same, though I see engineers who are in practice being complacent and content with just their basic education and a limited range of practice. I can't be that way...I strive to learn from every experience, including being involved with Eng-Tips. You will find some of the better practical and academic minds in the world on this site. Don't let your formal education be the end of your learning experience. Let it be the start. Best of luck.

 

[Arparker]

Ron thank you so much. Yea I always ones to the best at whatever I do. Learn more to learn how to solve the different aspects Of the job both in the classroom and in field. That's why at work when people ask questions I don't just transfer them to the engineer. I go and ask the engineer to explain to me because I have to listen, understand, and retain it in order to relay it back to the customer orcontractor. Unless obviously its far to complicated. And believe me I am at the very beginning of my learning career for engineering. None of parents or family went to college, hell they didn't even graduate high school. I had no help in finding what I wanted to do as a career. It took a lot to figure out what I wanted to. At first I thought a surgeon and I started going to the hospital and shadowing the surgeons in addition to taking courses. But it completely bored me. I wanted math and physical problems that takes thinking outside the box and using formulas. I go to bed thinking about how to solve formulas and equations, how to better myself in my field. The only prpblem with working at the Water authority is they do a whole lot of "real engineering" pursue. Its at the i wanna say the basic level of civil engineering. And dont get me wrong the they work their asses of, are very intelligent, god forbid if our dam broke, water main, or flooding happened i would want them there. But I need more, more complex thinking, more involvement in the project, something to show my kids hey I built that. Like in our area the shutdown of the 495 bridge in delaware was a big thing. I would have loved to be apart of that. The infrastructure of our bridges in the Philadelphia and tri-state area is terrible. They are falling apart. I wpuld love to be the engineer head of rebuilding and repairing our bridges. It excites me. Im such a nerd i know. But your words really got my engine running. Lol. And if there are grammar mistakes and spelling mistakes i apologize. Im on my phone and if i got back and try to fix everyone i have to copy and repaste it. And im just getting out of class after working all day and still have 4 hours of studying ahead. So, aint nobody got time for that. Haha. Thank you everyone for all your advice and kind words. I found out alot of information through all of you. Also got the news i wanted to hear today from Temple about going about transferring. I was really starting to get worried that i couldnt do it because of me being part time and alot of school around my area dont allow you to take engineering part time. But being the engineer i am i researched and figured out a solution.

 

[Ron]

Arparker....your background and mine are similar. Best of luck to you and keeping plugging....you'll get there.

 

[bimr]

CL220, the regulation for PE license states:

"Graduation from an ABET-accredited graduate-level engineering curriculum"

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/s3...

It does not state: "ABET-accredited Engineering Technology curriculum ".

 

[bimr]

CL220,

With the technology degree, you may qualify for a professional land surveyor:

"§ 37.47. Requirements for certification as a surveyor-in-training and for licensure as a professional land surveyor.

....
(ii) Graduation from an associate’s degree program in a surveying technology curriculum accredited by ABET."

Or if you have a Masters Degree in Engineering in addition to the BS technology degree, you may get the PE license.

http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter37/chap37toc.html

 

[cl220]

bimr,
This degree does qualify. You were looking at the section pertaining to graduate level engineering curriculum. This degree does qualify under the ABET accreditation. I have this degree, and I was able to sit for my FE exam. This degree is one that is allows someone to take the degree at night part time. Yes there may be some challenges in some states with licensing, but PA is not one of them. I simply did not want to discourage the OP from taking this course at Temple.

"Engineer-in-training. A candidate for certification as an engineer-in-training shall be of good moral character and achieve a passing score on the NCEES fundamentals of engineering examination. To qualify for the fundamentals of engineering examination, the candidate shall possess one of the following qualifications:

(i) Graduation from an undergraduate engineering curriculum in the United States accredited by ABET. A student who has completed 2 years in an ABET-accredited undergraduate curriculum in the United States and has maintained current enrollment may, with Board approval, sit for the fundamentals of engineering examination, but will not be eligible for certification as an engineer-in-training until the student provides proof of graduation. The effective date of certification will be the later of the date of graduation or the date of notification from NCEES of achieving a passing score on the fundamentals of engineering examination."

 

[bimr]

Not disputing the fact that you have a PE, or when you received it. I also don't know the history of the technology degree acceptance in PA, but I would not start on that path unless I see the requirements printed in black and white. Perhaps PA is misreading their law as the first line states: Graduation from an undergraduate engineering curriculum in the United States accredited by ABET.

I would say that it is as clear as mud.

In South Carolina, you can read the law and see that the technology degree is accepted:
"(2) graduation in a baccalaureate degree program and completion of an engineering curriculum found to be substantially equivalent to an engineering curriculum accredited by EAC/ABET or graduation in a TAC/ABET accredited engineering technology curriculum of four or more years from a school or college approved by the board as being in satisfactory
standing and passing NCEES examinations as required by the board."

Some states like Wisconsin formerly accepted a technology degree, but no longer do.

The NCEES registration page for PA states "EAC/ABET Engineering Bachelors".

The real question is why would anyone bother to get an engineering education to obtain a License, if all you needed was a presumably less rigorous and less expensive technology education?

 

[bimr]

"An ABET accredited, 4-year, engineering technology degree does fall under the category of “an approved engineering curriculum”.

Section 37.31 of the law states:

(a)(1)(i) “Graduation from an undergraduate engineering curriculum in the United States Accredited by ABET…”

Sincerely,

Danalyn S Merino | Reviewing Officer
Pennsylvania Department of State | Bureau of Professional Licensing"

As long as Pennsylvania interprets the law this way, the easiest path to a license is the technology degree.

 

[chicopee]

If you are paying out of pocket, explore night programs from an accredited school as suggested above.

 

[amlinerrichard]

I did all of my engineering classes at night school. Look there first as stated earlier.