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Dive boat disaster in California... 2

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3DDave said:
Divers are typically healthy and aware people; at that hatch the first one or two out would be hauling people out in 1 to 3 seconds each, and the more that were in that galley the faster they rest would be moved. Get on the bunk, put your arms up, and you are hauled out of there. If it took as long as two minutes to clear the bunch via the hatch I'd be surprised. Same with the stairs.
Click to expand...

Would if what? it didn't happen that way.

Did folks miss my sarcasm above? [sarcasm off]. Hatch is shown blocked by gear in full light with no exit signs. Dive gear is heavy stuff. Now imagine trying to find the correct bunk to climb, in the dark and in the smoke, and trying to roust the not so fit overweight diver occupying the key bunk blocking the hatch. I am not surprised.
 
This might be a silly question... but with unlimited water, why don't they sprinkle more areas of the boat?
 
Some divers are healthy and aware. Some are so hopelessly over weight that diving is the only sport that they are capable of. I have worked at a couple of diving resorts.
In the evenings, hanging with the dive masters and listening to their adventures of the day.
eg: 350 lb. diver with barely enough strength to stand up unassisted. Three dive masters trying to get the diver out of the water while trying to avoid pulling on any politically unacceptable body parts.
Bouyancy is a great equalizer. No-one weighs very much under water.
As for the over bunk feature. That appears to above a center bunk. The plan shows a large box or other structure in the center of the galley.
Looking at the plans of the Miss Conception, an escape hatch is shown over the shower room in addition to the stairs, but no escape hatch is shown over the divers quarters.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter
 
Ok. One diver. You think they'd get dibs on the top bunk? No different than over-wing exits.

Which plans? The only forward escape hatch I've seen is the news graphics which are a nice try, but are not substantiated with any other documentation.

The video on this page shows that the escape hatch should have been free of obstruction:
The main problem is they are in locations that can fill with smoke because smoke rises, but putting an escape hatch in the floor or walls is a problem.

It is most likely that galley filled with smoke and toxic vapors which then progressed down the stairway and killed the upper bunk occupants first; these plans show that the crew member sleeping area is exactly where they would be incapacitated first.
 
Spartan5 said:
with unlimited water, why don't they sprinkle more areas of the boat?
Click to expand...

Not a bad idea if done carefully and properly - but otherwise can easily become a shortcut to a rapid and deadly capsize.
 
Please note the sleeping area seems to have had some type of forced air ventilation. The inlet for this ventilation is not known to me.
 
Its a ceiling aircon unit. They are quiet common in yachts and medium sized boats there will also be a dehumidifier around as well if they are lucky.


They use a heat exchanger in the engine compartment and seawater as a heat sink. Then run a cold water loop round in the ceiling. The fresh air inlet can have a bigger dehumidifying/cooling unit on them. From memory the ceiling units are 12 or 48V dc and have 20 watt fans in them. Maybe 2kw of cooling or heating if your lucky each unit. They use a water jacket round the exhaust to heat the water if its cold.

Having done most of my diving/yachting in Scotland I am more up to speed on the heating aspects than the cooling.
 
The report alleging all crew were asleep will do nothing to improve the safety going forward, since there is no way to ensure all crews will maintain a night watch. IR detectors scanning the top surface of the boat , attached to an alarm, would obviate the need for the night watch. I guess a few more tragic fires would need to occur to move the regulators out of their induced coma.

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick
 
Night watch is to avoid a lot more than fire.
 
Man overboard, weather, allision, loss of anchorage? Whoever was captain of that boat has a good chance of going to prison.
 
My old college buddy, who's a diver, sent me the link below. It's from the publication 'Undercurrent', a specialty magazine for scuba divers, and it attempts to bring everyone up-to-date on what's known and still unknown about the Conception fire:

The Tragic Tale of the Conception Fire


John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
 
That certainly nixes the validity of the "escape hatch" since;
1) its existence was often unknown
2) it was unlit
3) hard to get to
4) very hard to negotiate
5) led to somewhere else still inside the boat (in this case the fire).

I'm disappointed the coast guard inspections failed to remedy this. Ghost Ship 2.

Keith Cress
kcress -
 
I'm not 100% certain that item 1 is truly "unknown;" as alluded to in the article, most people don't really pay attention during safety orientations, which is why people often die during accidents. I get that it's machts nichts, since it's prit-near useless, but I'm willing to bet a buck that every safety orientation mentions the hatch. I'm guessing the safety orientation is either done dockside or on the top deck, so probably no visual is ever presented to the passengers to buttress the verbal descriptions.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
Misleading title, it was exempt from "some" safety rules.
 
The major rule it was not exempt from was a night watch while at anchor. Since a crew-member sleeping by the main exit did not leave that way or by the smaller hatch I suspect that the size of the exits had no bearing on the outcome.

I am far more disturbed by the way the Coast Guard blew off the NTSB duck-boat recommendations and let a second one sink and take the passengers with it.
 
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