Construction engineering 1

[gwynn]

Maybe not the correct place to post this, but regardless of that I have a question.

I used to read this forum quite a bit and post once in a while, but it seems there are few topics relevant to what I do and few posters with first hand knowledge of it. Are there others here who deal with design of temp works and construction engineering in general? And that could be anything from checking a standard wall form to launching a multispan bridge with 3 or more 200' spans to checking the stability of precast or steel girders during transportation/erection/concrete placement.

I am starting to think I am in a very small niche as far as engineering jobs go.

 

[bridgebuster]

I've checked calculations and drawings for temporary works - erection plans, lifting beams, formwork, jacking procedure, crane placements etc. I would tend to agree that you're in small niche. Over the years of doing this, I've noticed that these items are usually prepared by small firms; in some cases a one person operation.

I would imagine that many members of this forum have similar experience. Sometimes a question doesn't get answered because it's vague. Perhaps you might want to contact the management and ask if they can set up a construction engineering forum.

 

[tempeng]

I am starting to think I am in a very small niche as far as engineering jobs go.

And you would be right. For a few years now I have been in the Temp. Works side of Engineering designing scaffolding and access, falsework, formwork etc. and I have only met 1 other Engineer in this line of work. Which is a shame really because here in the UK a most Temp. Engineers are coming up to retirement age and not enough new blood coming in we could soon lose a lot of expertise.

A Construction Engineers Forum could be a lonely old place

 

[PEinc]

From my experience, most structural engineers and some geotechs will claim to do construction engineering. Most don't do it very well because they lack construction field experience and do not understand construction costs, equipment, material and equipment availability, etc. Construction engineering really is a niche business. With the slow economy of the last few years, many engineers are taking on construction engineering work for which thay have little or no experience.

http://www.PeirceEngineering.com

 

[dhengr]

Gwynn:
My experience has been like Bridgebuster’s, I’ve done a bunch of that unusual engineering work over the years. I actually think it’s fairly interesting engineering because it takes a good amount of experience and engineering judgement, drawn from many different areas of practice, rather than just following today’s convoluted cook books, using one material. Of course, it is probably also a little riskier since you can’t fall back on having followed the cook book to the letter, so I must be o.k. That type of engineering work also requires some trust and confidence in the people you are doing the engineering for, and that they know what they are doing, so as not to put your whatcha-call-it in the ringer for you. You really have to think through the problem, for all the possible things which might influence the outcome, not just follow a three step formula to what you assume must be the perfect solution.

I also think that you will find a number of people on this forum who can talk with you, on a large variety of problems, since they have had similar experiences. I also suspect that many of these people will be some of the older folks who have had a much broader experience over the years. I don’t think you need another forum for your questions, but it is absolutely true on all of these forums, and I’m not pointing specifically at you, that many of the questions are poorly asked with insufficient explanation of the problem or too little info. to really discuss the problem, and then we are left to guess what is wanted or needed. We just can’t see it from here, and we don’t know which way ‘on the left’ is. I actually wonder, at times, if the OP’er understands his own problem, if he can’t ask the question any better than that.

We don’t all have first hand knowledge about everything, but if you can explain the problem in regular engineering language and terms, there are a bunch of smart engineers here who can help you toward a well reasoned solution; or at least in the right direction without making the final decisions for you. Many of these types fo engineering problems don’t have a cut-n-dried solution, or formula to follow, or design guide #67 with worked out problems which you just substitute your numbers into; so many of today’s engineers don’t know what to do with those problems.

You may be in a fairly small niche, but it is important and essential one. All you have to do is look at many of the structural failures in the news these days, and it is evident that more of this type of construction engineering is needed. And, I think this kind of engineering will become even more important in the future, because too many of today’s design engineers have no idea if what they design can be put together, or how. Computers allow them to do things, at a complexity level, that they just don’t even comprehend. All they know is that if it ain’t too red, it’s probably o.k.

Bring your questions here, they are the most interesting types of engineering questions being asked here these days.

 

[msquared48]

I just did some formwork design for a concrete bridge railing a month or so ago, and also did a formwork design for a bridge pier in Alaska over 30 years ago. These have been the only formwork designs I have performed in my 35+ year engineering career, both using the guidelines in ACI SP4, "Formwork For Concrete".

So, from my perspective, if you are not a construction engineer, you will probably not do too much formwork design.

As for bridge design, I stay clear of that and leave it to the experts by choice...

Mike McCann
MMC Engineering

http://mmcengineering.tripod.com

 

[gwynn]

Thanks for the responses. After thinking about it, I do agree with those such as Bridgebustera and tempeng that this is a small niche. I have dealt with pretty much every firm here that does construction engineering and most are on the small side. Every once in a while I see something cross my desk from a large firm or hear that a large firm is doing the construction engineering for a specific project, but not very often.

I don't think a seperate forum is warranted, as even the bridge design forum is generally slow and there are likely far more bridge designer out there than temp works designers. I'm probably in the triple digits as far as bridges I've done the construction engineering for in the last few years and I doubt anyone is designing highway bridges at the same rate.

I agree on the vagueness of some questions asked here. In some cases I attribute it to people being deliberately vague, but occassionally I do wonder if the poster understands what they are trying to ask.

PEinc: I have seen some of the issues with people getting into areas they are not as familiar with over recent years. Some of it is also seeing people getting involved in projects outside of their normal jurisdiction without finding out the differences in standard practices. I think this may be one of the reasons that I am seeing more and more of the large construction companies require a third party engineering review on many items. The big one of what you have listed is equipment availability. I see this from people both on the design side and construction side. Steel girders will not have all of the diaphragms installed and then be lifted in in pairs if there are only two mobile cranes in North America that have the required capacity. Nobody is building a ringer for this (yes, that is hyperbole to an extent).

dhengr: You bring up a couple of good points. One is the cook book approach comment. It is something I have seen a fair bit on these forums, but rarely deal with myself. Over the time I've spent reading the forums there have been a lot of posts that are answered by clause ... in design guide ..., etc. Nope, don't have those much of the time. For many problems I either have to go back to first principles or rely on engineering judgement - skewed bulkhead forms being a prime example there. I also agree that constructability issues have become more prevalent recently. I think this can be attirbuted to a combinaton of the increasingly cookie cutter design codes, increased use of design software (as you noted) and in some cases changes in authority regulations.

In any case, it is good to hear that there are others here with similar experiences.

 

[oldrunner]

I started my career coming out of school with a large heavy construction firm. They were mainly into hydro projects at that time. Most of the new graduates received about a year of training, especially take-off of dams and powerhouses. Spillways and tunnels and special bridge type projects were also present. Around us were numerous vary knowledgeable construction engineers – both civil and mechanical. Later on, in the field in northern California, we became familiar in providing lift drawings – especially for powerhouses and then became familiar with checking the rebar suppliers shop drawings. There were a number of fellows who specialized in formwork and shoring – good engineers – but not an area that I ever aspired to.

Eventually I would get little neat (and hard at the time) tasks. Then I was sent overseas to a large hydro project and started getting into some failures and then some special projects – like a truck lifter for working inside a 36 foot diameter tunnel, which would lift an empty Kohring dumpster from the invert high enough for a loaded dumpster to travel underneath into the tunnel.

I can go on about the experience – which was mainly because I was in the right place at the right time. One of the points is that when you don’t know anything about what you’ve been asked to do, there’s always some superintendent or foreman who’s seen something somewhere else – as well as older engineers.

Eventually I went to work for a firm in SF that specialized in contractor support type engineering with so many talented engineers it was amazing. Later I worked for a couple of very good structural engineers and eventually went back to work with a large rigging company – designing all kinds of lifting and hauling stuff. Meanwhile someplace in there got my SE.

Finally I went out on my own – no prior moonlighting – just rented an office over the bakery. (House wasn’t big enough with the three kids). I had given my employer 30 days, left on a Friday and opened on Monday for business. First thing I did was visit as many of the local heavy construction contractors and rigging company’s with my card and an informal introduction.

It turned out that there was no one doing this kind of work in my area. There were the big firms but most guys were working with architects – which in our 41 years of being in business have been very few and not many of them successful.

My first year, I made about $2,000 dollars more than I have been making when I was with the rigging company. I also found out that even though I worked very hard for all of my employers, that I was working harder than I ever had – but I was enjoying it much more. (I won’t say much about some of the awful clients I had – I’ve learned that you can fire them).

Some of the company’s that I had worked for became clients – and I stole some of their employees only to have bigger company’s steal them from me). Other engineers told me that they wouldn’t do the kind of things that I did – but I had been doing a lot of these things for years where I had been previously working. But if I only did buildings, then I probably would have quit a number of years ago.

I think that you may do just fine – have good contracts, work first principals as always – don’t take chances with the contractors – don’t be afraid to say no (diplomatically). And also be detailed orientated.

You might not know what you are going to do - because many projects are just a phone call away (today a surprising email). A couple of good projects was a 1,000,000 cement bag unloading facility – because the company had exhausted the local supply of cement and these bags of cement were then being unloaded onto a train in Karachi and would be at the job site in a couple of weeks. We got it done – I designed it – but a lot of people got their brains picked and were extremely helpful. Other tasks might be checking an existing older bridge for a “purple” load (192 wheel hauling trailer which we also designed) and then walking behind the load as it went across the bridge. Or you might be doing the procedures for off-loading older gantry cranes to a staging area to have their wheel gages modified.

If things work out – you’ll have a lot of fun. I’m still doing these kind of things (on a limited scale). Also you can’t work to many 80 hour weeks for too long.

Good luck.