CAD or engineering 1

[steve1]

I am a professional engineer who has recently completed a one year course in Autocad at a local community college. I am self employed and provide engineering services in the fields of pipe stress analysis, pipe support design, and equipment foundations.

My question. What are the implications if I do some CAD work (drafting the designs of others) with respect to me being a PE? Do I assume more liability because I am a licensed enineer? What if I see something that does not "look right" to me? As a cad operator, not the engineer, is it even my "right" to question the work of others, or does the asking constitute some sort of engineering on my behalf?

Any thoughts on this subject will be appreciated.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

I'm not a lawyer, but my assumption would be any fault would be on the PE who signs off on the work, not any PE the work crossed the desk of. You have the right to question anything, but whether or not the company will accept your advice graciously and/or eagerly is another matter... I can't say I'd want to work for a company that WOULDN'T value my opinion on a matter in which I'm versed in, though.

 

[JAE]

steve1 - I'd agree with MacGyverS2000 and in addition, simply convey your concerns to the EOR in writing. That way, if you see something that is incorrect, you have a record of notifying them of it. Written memos and such are very powerful in getting you off the hook should they not follow your comments.

 

[SeanDotson]

Steve,

It is not only your right but duty to point out things that "don't look right". However from a legal standpoint if you are simply drafting the plans and the other PE is signing off on them, he is the one who is responsible for the design.

However if it doesn't look right you need to raise the issue.

Sean Dotson, PE

http://www.mCADForums.com

CAD Professionals & Consultants Discussion

 

[PEinc]

I would make sure I had a CAD contract agreement that says I am not being hired to review or check the design, that I am only hired to provide CAD services, that I am not responsible for the adequacy of the design.

 

[steve1]

Thanks for all the reply's. I guess my concern is not so much with drafting up plans for other engineers, but rather the case where the local contractor shows up with a sketch for say an elevated wood deck, and needs a drawing for a building permit. Do I just blindly draw up what is handed to me, or do I give away an engineering fee and make myself comfortable with the design?

This leads to another question. As I said earlier I'm a one man PE show. Do I have to do seperate advertising to offer both engineering and cad services? Two sets of stationary, business cards, etc.

I'm not sure that I've seen this topic discussed before but it must be a concern to many independent engineers who offer both specialized engineering consulting and generalized cad services.

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Would it behoove you to separate the two services when it comes to clients? If worded correctly, the client would perceive you as the PE signing off on appropriate work, and your "company" as also offering CAD services (a side benefit).

As PEinc mentioned, make sure that it is clearly spelled out in writing that any job hired strictly as CAD work does NOT include the benefit of your standing as a PE (you are not verifying the work, only prettying up the drawing). If the work is to include your signature as a PE, make sure the portions of the project requiring your signature are spelled out, as well as those parts which do not.

 

[M1Can]

I find myself in a very similar situation, I have a small engineering / CAD organization( 4 or 5 people). About 2/3 of our work is drafting/CAD and 1/3 involves engineering.

I registered two business names( although both are actually part of the same company) and if a project involves engineering I invoice through the engineering name otherwise I invoice through the alternate name.

I never consulted a lawyer but it seemed the appropriate thing to do ie clearly separate work that involved engineering and that which was strictly drafting and did not involve any design responsability.

Regards

Mark

 

[swertel]

You don't need two business entities to separate the type of work you do, i.e. liabilities. Just make sure you contract/SOW is well-defined.

When I bid a job, fixed cost or otherwise, I tell them the rate ahead of time and at least an estimate of the completion time. Drafting vs design vs engineering have 3 different rates. When one crosses over, I renegotiate the contract and the rate at which the job is billed. I DO NOT attempt to separate a job into the number of hours for drafting vs design vs engineering. If I have to do any engineering work, it all gets billed at my engineering rate.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376

 

[TFL]

SWERTEL

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN DESIGN AND ENGINEERING..... SEAM THE SAME TO ME?

 

[swertel]

Engineering is when I have to do stress analysis, heat transfer or thermo, or some other engineering activity I learned in school. Design is when I just go by experience and gut feel pulling items out of catalogs that will fit. It may be overdesigned and expensive, but you didn't pay me to do the math!

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376

 

[MacGyverS2000]

It may be semantics, but to me, design is the creation of a single instance of a concept or idea (thinking of a new way to catch mice), whereas engineering is the actual real-world implementation of that instance (i.e., construction of the new mouse trap).

Dan
Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

 

[swertel]

Let me clarify my catageries a little more.

Drafting: This is just as it sounds. They have drawings already but need them modeled in 3D CAD or redrawn to latest standards. No thinking involved. I repeat all the same mistakes already on the print.

Design: Things learned in a 2-year associate design degree. Includes reverse engineering, simple concepting, drafting, drafting with error correction and recommending changes/improvements.

Engineering: Full machine design, stress analysis and FEA, cost analysis (engineering economics), and other tasks that require more time with my reference books than my CAD terminal.

--Scott

For some pleasure reading, try FAQ731-376