Book on preparing drawings? 4

[Lion06]

I would love to get my hands on a book that deals with developing a set of drawings. I feel like I'm ahead of my peers on the technical end of the job, but only on par (possibly lagging a little) on the drawing side.

I feel like at least part of the reason is that this seems to be fairly subjective. When I work with one engineer they like to see things a certain way. If I try following that with another engineer, they'll typically want it done differently. I don't feel like I have a good handle on how it SHOULD be done.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[swivel63]

that's exactly how i felt when was starting out in my career. i don't think there's one way to do it. and when you say drawing, do you mean your CAD skills or how to detail things on say an RFI response? or how to prepare an entire set of drawings?

 

[hokie66]

It should be done MY way. Seriously, there is no answer to your question, although most large consulting firms try to standardise by developing a drafting manual. It is terribly difficult to police, particularly in this time of contract drafters, outsourcing, etc.

 

[jike]

As the others have said, there are many ways to draw things, some better than others.

The best I advice I can give is to observe what your office does and the way other offices do it and decide which is better. Take note whenever you have an RFI or misunderstanding or question on the shop drawings because there may be something on the drawings or in the spec that led to the question or confusion.

 

[Lion06]

Thanks guys (and gals).

I didn't mean my personal CAD skills, I meant actually putting together a full set of drawings.

I guess I'll have to continue to plug along and learn as I go. This definitely seems to be the hardest part of the job.

 

[jike]

Another thought is to create a folder of your own with what you consider good examples of drawings (both plans and details). I think, at one time, I used to do this. I used to look at as many drawings and notes and buildings under construction as I could.

 

[PEinc]

Sometimes, your client will have plan presentation requirements or drafting standards. For example, DOT's often have standards that must be followed for their permanent projects. These standard requirements would include sheet sizes, margins, lettering size, title block content, etc. Check with your client. If the client has no requirements, use your company's standards so that you can quickly and easily copy and edit previous drawings or details as needed.

 

[BAretired]

I think you have hit upon one of the most difficult jobs in an engineering office. After working more than fifty years in the practice, I still found drawings which did not convey the information as clearly as they should.

Part of the problem is with the drafters themselves who may be conversant with cad techniques but don't always know how structural materials fit together in a simple way.

The other part of the problem is that I failed to spend enough time in the early part of the drawing development to ensure that the final product would end up the way I wanted it. And once the drawing is half completed, there is a reluctance to make a major change.

BA

 

[lkjh345]

Take every opportunity to collect drawings of projects that you consider 'well done'. Even when they are done by someone else, or, especially when, they are done by other firms.

I have a collection of drawings, that I have acuired over the years, for projects that were done by other engineers and other firms. I reference them not only for technical issues, but also for drawing layout, format, what kinds of things are they detailing/not detailing, etc. I have found them to be very helpful in helping me develop my 'style' of putting together a drawing set.

Its often good to see how other engineers in other firms appoach such basic things as drawing layout, format, etc. Sometimes, when you work at the same place, with the same people, for a long period of time a kind of 'group think' takes hold that you may not even be aware of. A different perspective on things is very helpfull.

 

[Qshake]

I agree with lkjh345 - stock up on drawings and review them crtically, away from your coworkers. Decide what you like about them and don't like. You'll form an opinion that is independent of your peers and when you temper it with the opinions of the experienced engineers you will find that is valued quite a bit.

Unfortunately there is no "cure-all" but you can rest assured that's the way many of us have perservered.

hey, feel free to write a book, could bring you some extra cash!

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[cvg]

don't forget that your plans must be bid and constructed by a contractor. It hardly matters if you think your plans look nice if the contractor has difficulty with them. If you have a contractor that you work with, have them make suggestions.

 

[MechEng2005]

Talk with the people that use the drawings. This could be the customer, fab shop, general contractor, etc.

The questions they have will tell you what they are looking for. Also, maybe try to get drawings back after the project is done be built. I'm in mechanical, and after the the company's shop builds something, I will go and grab the drawings back from the shop before they trash their copy. A lot of times these are marked up where the fabricator added/subtracted dimensions to figure out what it should be where he/she wanted to measure it. Sometimes the dimensioning was done a certain way for tolerancing, but many times it could be dimensioned the way the shop actually measured it. Better off having the dimension they want so there are not math errors, unless there is some critical overriding factor for why this hole needs to be measured from this point.

-- MechEng2005

 

[Qshake]

All contractors have difficulty with plans! This is mainly because they flip through them and then toss them aside intending to build what they thought they saw in plans, which is supported by 20 years of "I"ve been constructing buildings this way for 20 yrs, I don't need no engineer to tell me how it's done".

A fab shop, now that I might agree with. Typically detailers in fab shops are on the mark and know what works and doesn't work. But I concede this only for steel and not rebar shops. For rebar shops, see above for contractors.

Regards,
Qshake

Eng-Tips Forums:Real Solutions for Real Problems Really Quick.

 

[beton1]

In addition to the above points, I have a compilation of some good details cut from various past projects that I reference. If you see a good set of plans, as mentioned, keep them and go over them; a good set of drawings will jump out at you, you'll know when you see it. Some of the best plans I have are from my old job, where the draftsman (pre-cad) was a master: clear, concise and info where you expect. Some times I feel that I learned more from him than from some engineers. There is nothing like sitting at a old drafting table with a blank sheet... letting on my age.

 

[Lion06]

The contractor is obviously going to build it, but therer is a pretty good chance that, at some point in the future, another engineer will be looking at the drawings to make modifications for a change of use or something similar, right?

 

[cvg]

all the more reason to make the plans as idiot-proof as possible...

 

[ash060]

The most important thing about drawings is consistency. Whatever you do be consistent. For example, if you denote "top of" with T.O. do that all the time or if you use T/ do that all the time on every drawing. If there is not consistency the drawings begin to look haphazard. This is something to avoid because client will notice this.

Also, make the drawings pretty. I mean the information has to be right, but making them pretty is good start to good drawings. Remember, 95% of the people looking at your drawings are probably not an engineer. They are architects, contractors, plan reviewers, or just some guy. They don't have a clue if the engineering is right, but they know pretty when they see it.

Next try to avoid unnecessary information or clutter. If it does not have to do with the structure don't put it on the drawings. This is especially true with plans (sections can go either way); don't put non-loading bearing stud walls, toilets, flower pots, furniture, or etc. on the drawings it is cluttery and not needed.

To summarize the path to good drawings involves consistency, pretty, no unnecessary information, and consistency. Consistency is very important.

 

[SKIAK]

Do people actually keep drawings? Everytime I've done an evaluation of an existing building there were no drawings to be found. That always makes for a good time.

I usually start by drawing everything before putting labels on. Only after everything is drawn do I make the attempt to call everything out... or at least as much as possible. Doing it this way I end up fitting the labels after I see the flow of the set of drawings as opposed to trying to fit the set of drawings to the details... if that makes sense.

I do the same no matter if I'm working on a project of my own or helping another engineer. I don't try to guess what they want because I usually can't find a typical format/layout they like. If they don't like it they'll red line it.

I also keep a set of common details that I like (in addition to the company's typical details). They make a good template to keep me in that same mindset.

 

[cvg]

not all of us are designing small buildings where the plans are not kept. My public projects (power plants, dams, bridges, roads and streets, and other public works plans) all require as-builts and the plans are kept on file as long as possible. I commonly reviwe as-builts 50 years old and older. In some areas such as New York or Boston, the as-built plans may be considerably older than that.

 

[dik]

ash060 hit upon an important point. About the only thing that people see of an engineering office are the documents that are produced. A good set of documents reflects favourably for the consultant.

Dik