Asking for a raise. Need advice! 13

[Struct_Dre]

Hello All!

I recently utilized ASCE's Salary Calculator and I discovered that my earning potential does not meet my current salary. I am in the process of writing a letter to request a raise to a salary that is commensurate to my experience and talents. I would like any advice on how best to request a raise as I have never asked for a raise before; I have always accepted my yearly raise without debate. I am scheduled to take my PE in October this year and I expect to ask for another more substantial raise when I pass.

If there are any managers in this thread who can let me know information that they look for when considering a raise request, it will be extremely helpful. Honestly, any advice from anyone will help. Especially anyone who recently asked for and received a raise. Just an FYI - the raise I will be requesting is about a $13,000 annual increase.

Any help is welcome!!

 

[desertfox]

Hi Struct

My advice would be to hold fire, jobs are going to be hard to come by with this pandemic I would wait till the markets improve. Look at it another way if they turn your request down what will you do Leave?



“Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater.” Albert Einstein

 

[IRstuff]

re calculator -- YMMV

Not all engineers of the same point in their careers make the same amount of money. You seem to think highly of yourself; the question is whether others think the same, how you compare with your coworkers, and how stingy your company is. You don't say what your current salary is, so $13k as a standalone amount has not context to whether it's a plausible raise or a silly raise. Not to mention that given the tightness in some markets, the company might not even be able to afford giving any raise.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
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[KootK]

Here's one strategy that works well. There are others of course.

IN GENERAL TERMS

1) Make a rational business case to your employer for an increase. Sell it to a business person like a business person.

2) Use effective negotiating techniques that co-opt your employer into developing a plan for getting you where you want to be. This will make your employer feel respected and generate buy in for the plan. If it's their plan in large measure, they'll tend to take personal responsibility for it's success when/if the criteria for success are met.

3) There is always an element of threat in negotiations of this sort. The threat here being: if I'm not paid my worth, as I perceive it to be, I'll leave. Acknowledge the threatening aspect of things but, at the same time, minimize its use as a blunt force instrument. We're all gentlemen here after all.

4) If at all possible, give your employer more than one way to give you a raise. You likely don't know the details of all that constrains your employer so give them as many options for helping you out as possible.

IN SPECIFIC TERMS

A) Tell your employer where you want to be in terms of your compensation. Give a specific number or a narrow range and produce whatever salary survey data you have to support the feasibility of that proposal. The more industry specific and region specific your data can be, the better. This right here is your thinly veiled threat to leave. And this is where it ends.

B) Quickly move the conversation to: "what can I do here at the firm to be worth the level of compensation that I feel I need to be at in order to be a long term part of this organization, as I very much wish to be?". This is where you invite your employer to join you in making a plan to get where where you want to go salary wise. It may mean that your big raise(s) may need to come in future years rather than this year. Make the plan as specific as possible with respect to actions and definitions of succes.

C) Work the plan, patiently.

D) If there are non-monetary aspects of your compensation that would make your heart sing with joy, let you your employer know about them. More vacation? The ability to work from home two days per week? A paid parking spot? A transit pass? A reference material spending account? Whatever.

 

[271828]

I recommend waiting until after you get your license. Perhaps they will give you a big raise at that time.

An employee's capital for "asking for things" is more limited than most people think.

The boss knows how much he is paying you, how much he's paying everybody else, how much he's profiting from your work. Presumably he thinks he's paying you what your output is worth. The boss might grudgingly (even if he seems agreeable) raise your pay and then adjust you downward later.

As a general principle, asking the boss for things usually lowers your status in his mind. It's all about emotions. I think the following are the potential outcomes, and they're not good for the underling.
[ul]
[li]If he grants your request, he'll feel like he lost in a conflict with you. He'll probably get you back one way or another.[/li]
[li]If he grants your request and ends up paying you more than your peers, he'll feel bad about being unfair to them -- because of the situation that you helped cause.[/li]
[li]If he grants your request and thinks his profit margin on your work is lower than for your peers, then that's obviously not going to be to your long term advantage.[/li]
[li]If he can grant your request, and doesn't, then he'll probably have negative emotions about that over time. If he doesn't have negative emotions about it, then that's probably worse because he'd be getting his jollies from screwing you over. LOL[/li]
[li]If he is powerless to grant your request, then when he thinks of his lack of power in general, he'll see your face in his mind.[/li]
[/ul]

Edit: I thought of one potential outcome that is to the underling's advantage. The underling is being paid far below what he should be, relative to peers and profit margin. The boss doesn't know this. When alerted to this fact, the boss is in horror and wants to make it right with a raise. The raise goes through and all parties are happy. What do you think the chances are that this is the case? I'd say it's about like getting hit by lightning.

 

[JLNJ]

You better have a lot more to go on than the ASCE salary calculator. I’m guessing that salary surveys tend to be answered by people who skew to the top of the actual range.

Show your value, not just the ASCE salary survey. “Here I am, pay me.” is not a compelling argument.

Find out what they bill you out at. If they are getting more than 2.5 times your hourly rate, then you might be underpaid for your position. If you are already at the top of your range, then you might need to seek a promotion before asking for more money.

When I was a young engineer, I kept a log of what I was doing, especially those things which I thought added value above and beyond the call of duty. I handed the log to my boss as a “just thought you’d like to know what I spend my time doing”.

 

[r13]

I've never asked for raise. If I feel I was under paid, I treated as the employer showed me the door out. Not worth the fight, if I can find better place to go. Keep your smile and work as diligent as usual, but looking around. When you get another offer, it's time to negotiate with position switched.

 

[dik]

I've never asked for a raise, and the only reason I've left a firm is because economic conditions required it... [added] I've been choosy about the firms I've worked for... having said that, my next position has always paid significantly more... With one exception, I've always been held in high regard. I've never been financially motivated, though... as long as the family is doing OK, I've been happy. I've often 'turned over rocks' looking for work... but am currently happy. As noted, it may not be a good time to seek an increase.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

 

[HTURKAK]

Hi Struct_Dre ,

What is your option if the boss turns your request ?..in this case , IMO, you should be ready to leave..and if you do not have enough money it is not a good option..I like the quote “If you are not happy where you are, move. You are not a tree” BUT NOT NOW !!!..

My advise will be ,keep silence , pride does not pay bills and better to keep your job to pay them bills until you can find a better one..We will see the end of this pandemic and the markets will improve again..Every night has a morning..

Good Luck..

 

[skeletron]

That's a big raise, relatively speaking, in a time when most firms I trying to keep trim. I would hold off until the license unless there is:
(a) a significant part of the business that you actively draw in
(b) a clear, well-defined path that you have put yourself on and you want your employer to help move you toward, similar to what KootK is describing
(c) a very rational and comparative analysis that points toward $13k being an accurate number


I asked for a raise at one point using (c) above. I quantitatively assessed my worth based on various salary surveys and projections. In the end, the basis was completely arbitrary and my boss settled on less than what I asked for. It was a good exercise in understanding where I saw my experience value and where my employer saw my experience value.

 

[klaus.]

Keep in mind...your Boss can maybe read this here too .....

 

[kingnero]

I've asked for a raise once, didn't turn out well. I got what I asked for (more or less, was more than just a raise, had to do with an "upgrade" of my responsibilities), but later on, during casual meetings, I could read between the lines "you get paid as a pro, now solve your problems like a pro". Changed jobs in the months thereafter. Completely changed the relationship I had with my boss.

 

[Ron247]

As some others mentioned, I might wait until times are a little more predictable to ask for the raise unless I had a lot of money in the bank. But I would go to my boss for guidance on how I can improve my value to the company right now. See what they say. They tend to go 1 of 2 routes. 1) Here is what we want or need 2) here is what you do not do well at-improve these items.

I had a good friend want to leave a company he had been with for years because of pay and status. He asked me about what it takes to get in business for yourself. When he told me had not directly asked for a raise, I told he he needed to tactfully do that first. He did. They bumped his pay and position. He is still there now.

 

[Struct_Dre]

Thank you to everyone! These are great responses.

I know that I am very valued at my job; in fact, I received another job offer before with a higher salary and my boss raised my salary to meet that offer in order for me to stay. I work extremely hard and I take on responsibilities beyond my job duties often (especially in the past year). Other job offers I received were always a minimum of about $8,000 more annually, but those jobs were much less focused on design and I worried I wouldn't get the design experience I need/want- which is why I stayed in my current position. I'm able to work on very diverse projects in my current position so I feel more practiced as a designer.

I do have enough savings to live for about a year without working, but I won't quit if I don't receive the raise so I wouldn't threaten to do that. I just want to be sure I am paid accordingly. Also, I do get offers for interviews from reputable companies often (via LinkedIn), so I don't think it would be awfully hard to get another job, but I have the rare opportunity of being a woman engineer working for a woman engineer and I'd really like to continue working where I am for now. I learn a lot from her and I really do see the opportunity to grow at my company.

I am ok with the idea of waiting until I receive my license. Is there a specific increase I should look for after I get my PE this year?

Again, thanks so much for the feedback!

 

[phamENG]

The amount of your post-exam raise will depend on your current salary. I was fortunate to do my EIT time at a firm with reasonable managers who looked out for their people where pay was concerned. I received a healthy bump every year that kept me above the regional average for my experience level. When I got my license, I got a 16% raise rather than the 3-4% I'd been getting previous years. The result was a salary the day I received my exam results that was 74% higher than the day I walked in the door. I knew other engineers who started as an EIT out of school at other firms and didn't get a single pay raise until they passed their exam. That 65% bump felt REALLY good, but I was better off with the slow and steady increase.

If you see yourself as becoming part of the leadership of this company, then start there. Approach your boss (this sounds like a small design office, so your boss is probably the owner?) and let her know that you'd like to start understanding the business of engineering. Get some insight into how the financial side of the industry works, and how your firm operates in particular. Learn about billing multipliers, profitability targets, etc. Once you understand the firm's goals, how much you cost, how much you bring in, and how much the firm as a whole brings in, you'll be in a much better place to understand your place in the value picture. Remember - there's ALWAYS somebody who's willing to do it cheaper. You have to understand why YOU are worth the extra money to the company. Your idea of value and the company's idea of value have to meet at your salary for everyone to be happy.

 

[Aesur]

I would strongly caution you about using ASCE Salary data, it's similar to the H-1B requirements in that it's bloated toward the high end and usually lumps all the sub disciplines of Civil into one area. Typically of the sub disciplines, structural building design ranks on the lower end of the spectrum while bridge design on the high end and this throws off results significantly.

If I were to use the ASCE Calculator at my position and experience I should be making tons more than I do, however it's not even close to reasonable, and I'm one of the principals in the company.

Things to consider while asking for a raise:

Bill rates are typically 2.5x to 3x your cost rate. Are you in this range, if so a promotion is more in line to get a raise, but this comes with greater responsibility? This is a slippery slope for companies as you cannot just promote everyone when they should be, structural engineering tends to rely on a hierarchy where the principals bring in the work for multiple PM's and then the PM's have multiple engineers and drafters below them that actually do the engineering work. Principals and PM's are more paper pushers and rarely do much engineering calculations due to their other responsibilities; additionally if the employers becomes too "top heavy" nothing will get done, profits will sink and the company will have to restructure or reduce salaries all around, unfortunately the nature of this business.

Are you profitable, or do you go over budget on projects? Being profitable is a big component of making an argument for a raise. Do you use a software, like Ajera or similar that can show your utilization rate (keep in mind this is an approximation as it doesn't account for overtime you put in off the clock to meet deadlines, etc..) I recommend looking at budgeted hours versus spent hours on as many projects as you can (that you have completed) and see how this compares, early on budgeted hours tend to appear to be inadequate and in many cases can be, however that may be the going rate for that type of project base on competition and other factors. And let's be honest, few here probably believe the fees are what they should be.

Are you consistently busy, or are there periods where you have nothing to do? Not being consistently busy could mean your utilization rate drops due to inadequate work load in the company. This would result in lower pay.

Does your company pay overtime? Many companies do not provide this as we are salaried employees, but if your company does, this eats into profit that is used for salary increases.

Is your company top heavy? Industry standard tends to be the following breakdown (for small to medium sized employers): Per office: (1) Principal, (1) PM's per (3) Sr. or Jr. engineering staff and (1) drafter per (3) or (4) engineers. If your company has more principals and or PM's then there is a chance that the company is top heavy and cannot afford to pay it's employees adequately as there is too much waste up the chain. Please note that this is not true for all companies and tends to be more of an observation in my area.

Do you work on specialized types of projects? Specialized work tends to pay more; there are exceptions here of course.

Are there selling points based on your knowledge; things you know and use frequently that make you stand out? Knowing certain software or engineering methods that others don't could make you more valuable. ie. There was a time in my former company where I was the only one left that knew how to use RAM Structural correctly and how to address all (all that we had encountered at that point) the "errors and warnings" and where all the "gotcha's" were.

At my previous employer, I went into a meeting knowing all the data for the company, including company profits (estimated based on available data at the time) and my profitability, including utilizations, overages on projects, finishing projects early, etc.. and managed to negotiate a raise at the same position in excess of 30k (woefully underpaid before this raise), I stuck around for another 3 years before I left to start a firm.

 

[Struct_Dre]

Wow @pharmENG and @ Aesur THANKS SO MUCH!! This was such great feedback and I feel a lot better now that I have a clearer understanding of what I should consider before asking for the raise. I'll take this year to study for my PE and answer the questions posed by Aesur. I feel a lot more confident about what information I need to bring to the table when asking for a raise. Thanks everyone!