I currently work for a company that makes injection molded magnets. Unfortunately, the people in charge have decided pack up and move to a plant owned by our company in China. They have asked me if I want to go to China for 1-2 months to get them started, as they have no experience molding magents, and it is significantly different than normal plastic injection molding. I do feel somewhat betrayed, but if the benfits are good I may do it. I was wondering if anyone has done this or something similar before and what kind of bonus package to ask for. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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advice????? 1
- Thread starter hjohns
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Don't do it, or if you do insist on significant renumeration (much more than 1-2 months) or continued employment with a contract and lengthy term.
These boys don't know how to do it and you do - don't sell yourself short. Remember, after 1-2 months they WILL say "Thanks, bye" if you let them.
These boys don't know how to do it and you do - don't sell yourself short. Remember, after 1-2 months they WILL say "Thanks, bye" if you let them.
GregLocock
Automotive
For China you should be able to get all living expenses paid for while you stay in a western style hotel. You'll need a full-time driver and an interpreter while you are at work. You should probably be able to score some sort of hardship allowance as well, for instance Guinness was 18 dollars a pint in Shanghai.
Two months in a foreign country by yourself is VERY disorientating, in my experience, not long enough to really get a social life going, too long to be sitting in a hotel room watching TV.
The positives are that obviously you'll get a good exposure to Chinese culture (or at least the local variant), and you should be able to make lots of contacts for your future career.
Which city are you going to?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
Two months in a foreign country by yourself is VERY disorientating, in my experience, not long enough to really get a social life going, too long to be sitting in a hotel room watching TV.
The positives are that obviously you'll get a good exposure to Chinese culture (or at least the local variant), and you should be able to make lots of contacts for your future career.
Which city are you going to?
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
- Thread starter
- #6
Good advice above, but also consider:
Such assignments frequently last longer than the stated/expected initial term. Are you willing to spend longer in China? Make sure you negotiate the terms of this possibility.
Research the costs of daily living in whatever city you will be going to. Get real local info from ex-pats on the ground there if at all possible. If you are not adventurous, negotiate actual expenses to be reimbursed, but remember that Asian cultures are largely cash-based, and receipts are not generally provided unless asked for. When asked for it is often a big production involving lots of stamps, envelopes and seals. If you are adventurous go for a per diem. There are significant savings possible if you are willing to "go native" for some meals and entertainment. You can probably find a laundry near the hotel that will be a quarter of the cost of the hotel laundry.
Make sure everyone understands the visa situation. If you can't get a long-term work visa it may be necessary for you to leave China every month, or 90 days or whatever. Make sure the costs of these trips will be covered, and that you can go someplace nice.
Eventually the assignment will end. What will you do then? It will be difficult to conduct a job hunt for a new job in your home country while you are in China.
My experience is a bit different from Greg's apparently. Two months is plenty of time to establish social contacts if you are reasonably outgoing (remember, you will be the exotic foreigner). The first two weeks will be disorienting, then you will get the hang of things, then you be convinenced that China sucks and you want to go home, then you'll be ok for a while. You will eventually always reflect on the experience fondly however.
Chinese is tough to learn.
Such assignments frequently last longer than the stated/expected initial term. Are you willing to spend longer in China? Make sure you negotiate the terms of this possibility.
Research the costs of daily living in whatever city you will be going to. Get real local info from ex-pats on the ground there if at all possible. If you are not adventurous, negotiate actual expenses to be reimbursed, but remember that Asian cultures are largely cash-based, and receipts are not generally provided unless asked for. When asked for it is often a big production involving lots of stamps, envelopes and seals. If you are adventurous go for a per diem. There are significant savings possible if you are willing to "go native" for some meals and entertainment. You can probably find a laundry near the hotel that will be a quarter of the cost of the hotel laundry.
Make sure everyone understands the visa situation. If you can't get a long-term work visa it may be necessary for you to leave China every month, or 90 days or whatever. Make sure the costs of these trips will be covered, and that you can go someplace nice.
Eventually the assignment will end. What will you do then? It will be difficult to conduct a job hunt for a new job in your home country while you are in China.
My experience is a bit different from Greg's apparently. Two months is plenty of time to establish social contacts if you are reasonably outgoing (remember, you will be the exotic foreigner). The first two weeks will be disorienting, then you will get the hang of things, then you be convinenced that China sucks and you want to go home, then you'll be ok for a while. You will eventually always reflect on the experience fondly however.
Chinese is tough to learn.
Friend of mine did something similar: company moving its operations to China. He loved it, was the King over there. Hotel, car, technical expert. He went for 3 months, then 3 more months, then 6 months. Finally came back and divorced his wife to marry his Chinese girlfriend. Morally and socially, his life is a train wreck but his career is skyrocketing.
I agree with the above, tho...get it in writing, don't sell your specific technical ability (and the value thereof) short, plan and document all contingencies that you can think of. The way the global economy is going, this experience could serve you very well (career-wise, but remember about the wife/girlfriend) in the next few years. Do a contract, with contigencies, don't ask for the world but ask for everything else. It would be a hardship, China should still be cheap enough to provide a very nice living arrangement during this hardship period. And remember....there is no company loyalty anymore: they'll dump you in a minute if the need suits them.
Skepticism mode is now off (sorry about the rant)
TygerDawg
I agree with the above, tho...get it in writing, don't sell your specific technical ability (and the value thereof) short, plan and document all contingencies that you can think of. The way the global economy is going, this experience could serve you very well (career-wise, but remember about the wife/girlfriend) in the next few years. Do a contract, with contigencies, don't ask for the world but ask for everything else. It would be a hardship, China should still be cheap enough to provide a very nice living arrangement during this hardship period. And remember....there is no company loyalty anymore: they'll dump you in a minute if the need suits them.
Skepticism mode is now off (sorry about the rant)
TygerDawg
Hi hjohns,
TheTick says you can't fight the tide. Tygerdawg says they will dump you in a minute. I believe you can fight the tide. Get their client list and make a client's client list. Also, make a supplier's list. Make sure you REALLY know the business. After they move and burn all their bridges, go to their client's client, offer 10% less across the board, plus better quality plus JIT delivery. Get some signed up. Go to a friendly banker with your business plan and list of potential clients, and get a business loan. Hire a few wizards like Greg. Set up shop in some depressed area in the U.S. offering whopping tax breaks. Send the suckers in China a picture postcard. There are many variations to this, but it can be done.
TheTick says you can't fight the tide. Tygerdawg says they will dump you in a minute. I believe you can fight the tide. Get their client list and make a client's client list. Also, make a supplier's list. Make sure you REALLY know the business. After they move and burn all their bridges, go to their client's client, offer 10% less across the board, plus better quality plus JIT delivery. Get some signed up. Go to a friendly banker with your business plan and list of potential clients, and get a business loan. Hire a few wizards like Greg. Set up shop in some depressed area in the U.S. offering whopping tax breaks. Send the suckers in China a picture postcard. There are many variations to this, but it can be done.
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1
- #10
I'm at the beginning of managing a technology transfer to China and am considering some of the same things.
First off, decide whether you're ready to walk TODAY. If so, it makes the negotiation much easier for you. I've secured a guarantee of 6 months severance pay for any termination except gross negligence.
We've also negotiated 10% retroactive raises and slam-dunk performance bonuses equal to roughly 50% of annual salary.
We haven't agreed for certain on accommodations but it will be at a Western hotel (Mariott or Holiday Inn).
One thing that most people seem to neglect: Vaccinations. Go see a travel Doc or visit the CDC site to see what's suggested for China. My shots, along with a scrip for Cipro and an antimalarial, ran better than $500.
Another thing you might consider: Given the risks of bird flu and (potentially) SARS, you might negotiate guaranteed medevac or guaranteed care where the elite are taken care of. I haven't quite thought this one through for myself but I'll be carrying a corporate credit card so I have coverage built in.
Also consider whether you want a guarantee of how often you come home.
If you're really valuable, you might hold out for guaranteed Business Class airfare; it is a stinking long, long time to be sitting in the cattle car.
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Bring back the HP-15
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First off, decide whether you're ready to walk TODAY. If so, it makes the negotiation much easier for you. I've secured a guarantee of 6 months severance pay for any termination except gross negligence.
We've also negotiated 10% retroactive raises and slam-dunk performance bonuses equal to roughly 50% of annual salary.
We haven't agreed for certain on accommodations but it will be at a Western hotel (Mariott or Holiday Inn).
One thing that most people seem to neglect: Vaccinations. Go see a travel Doc or visit the CDC site to see what's suggested for China. My shots, along with a scrip for Cipro and an antimalarial, ran better than $500.
Another thing you might consider: Given the risks of bird flu and (potentially) SARS, you might negotiate guaranteed medevac or guaranteed care where the elite are taken care of. I haven't quite thought this one through for myself but I'll be carrying a corporate credit card so I have coverage built in.
Also consider whether you want a guarantee of how often you come home.
If you're really valuable, you might hold out for guaranteed Business Class airfare; it is a stinking long, long time to be sitting in the cattle car.
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Bring back the HP-15
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Regarding the visa, go for a 1-year multiple entry. You shouldn't have any trouble getting one.
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Bring back the HP-15
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Bring back the HP-15
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GregLocock
Automotive
Good advice
So far as health cover goes, make sure you get evacced to Hong Kong (or wherever) for any hospital stays. I don't know what Chinese hospitals are like and would have no intention of finding out!
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
So far as health cover goes, make sure you get evacced to Hong Kong (or wherever) for any hospital stays. I don't know what Chinese hospitals are like and would have no intention of finding out!
Cheers
Greg Locock
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.
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