3 years unemployment 4

[unemployedengineer]

Hello everyone,

Here is the story:

graduate with BS degree in 2006
graduate with MS degree in 2009

unemployed since graduation. by September 2011, i will be 3 years unemployed and 5 years of no experience since BS degree.

keep in mind that i am an immigrant (speak with an accent) living in DC where most of jobs are out of my field and/or require TSC. and jobs in my field are too far for me to be worthwhile of companies to relocate me.

does this sound normal, giving the current economic recession?

that was the reaction of one recruiter who contacted me recently.

thank you

 

[debodine]

SiliconeAurora: Engineers are simply real people, with all the accompanying flaws, foibles, prejudices and rationalizations. We are trained to try to put all those aside and deal with the world of reality in the discipline we have chosen. Outside of our trained areas, we are somewhat but as a rule not significantly better than the average person is at dealing with reality.

I do concur with your point. )

 

[corus]

It would be better for you to find work of any kind rather than have a blank cv for the last 5 years. People will think you're just lazy.

I'd also have several cvs handy as I was once told I was overqualified when applying for a job. I told them I could tipex out a qualification or two and act thick if it helped, but they weren't impressed.

Tara

 

[KENAT]

SiliconeAurora , come on, each engineer is an individual, even the identical twins & Dilbert & Wally clones.

They'll each have their own experience based on different backgrounds, different areas of engineering, different locations, different ages...

It would be great if there was a single silver bullet that we all agreed on was the secret to getting hired but I really don't think it's that simple.

Also, we don't know everything about the OP's situation, so each of us is trying to interpret what he's saying based on our own knowledge and experience etc.

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[ctopher]

SiliconeAurora,
You must working in the marketing/purchasing side of engineering.

I agree with KENAT.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[lacajun]

I know young engineers in similar shoes. It's the economy. The ones in my area are working outside of their degrees completely. They've lied about having an engineering degree to get sales jobs in department stores to repay student loans.

Don't sweat it because life goes on and it will work out for you one way or another. Keep a positive attitude! You have a lot going for you already and keep that in mind as you talk with others.

 

[ScottI2R]

SiliconeAurora:
One thing we are consistant about: We generally do not stereotype.

Scott

I really am a good egg, I'm just a little scrambled!

 

[csd72]

When I left university there had been a bit of a recession and I knew guys that worked as bricklayers for two years to get by.

As others have said, any job is better than none in this environment.

 

[jmw]

i have applied everywhere. i've use linkedin/indeed/monster/careerbuilder/university job bank/craigslist and even googling the job title.

Sorry, not good enough.

People just emailing in could mean that you've emailed about 2000 companies the same. It could also mean that they see the same approach from a lot of people who think the internet is a wonder cure for everything. It isn't. It won't get you anywhere as you now know.

You need face to face and that means getting out and actually visiting the places where there might be work. It will show initiative, if nothing else, and how serious you are.
They may have a hundred emails looking for work and one or two people at the desk.
Who would you see?
Take it seriously and turn up dressed for an interview.

If you get to reception and ask about employment, they will ring and speak to someone.
As suggested above, try to avoid HR, or HR alone (you may need to go through some hoops but if HR send someone down with a form, you need for them to tell you who manages the departmens where you might find work. Then you need to get them to speak to whoever that is and refer you to them.
You need them to speak to some one with hiring authority in the department where you might fit.
That means you need to research the companies where you might like to work just enough to help the receptionist help you.
You are looking for a job or you are looking for advise or you need to become a face in someone's mind who might in future have a position for you.
You need to get a face to face with someone, you don't need a brush off from the receptionist saying "Sorry, no jobs, everyone's busy." Or the brush off from HR who make you complete a form.
That means you need a ploy to get someone to talk to you and it might be that you need advise on what sort of jobs are performed in this or another branch... be inventive and be prepared.

Too easy for potential employers not to look up online sources and it is too easy to dismiss emails. It is even too easy to dismiss letters.
It is less easy to dismiss someone who has made the effort to come in person. Even curiosity may bring someone to meet you even for a few minutes. Those minutes are your golden time, time to make some sort of impression.
It won't work everytime.
You need to set a target of visiting so many companies a day.
List them out, do a little research and don't be too fussy. Anyone who might have a job is fair game.

At most of the companies you visit they will give you an application form to fill out whether there are vacancies or not and they will promise to keep your application "on file" for future reference.
This may well be a lie but if you fill in the form and attach a copy of your CV with it, they may send it up to any relevant managers for an initial perusal.
You need to get the names of suitable contacts because you may wish to revisit this company in a few months or try some follow ups with the contact the next day, if he doesn't come and see you.

At the moment your definition of an ideal job is any job that lets you apply some of your learning and gain some experience. Do not be shy in explaining this to whoever you can get to talk to.

You may get exploited in your first job because you are desperate and they are not but what the heck, once you have some experience you are in a marginally better position than now.
Remember, you have nothing to lose and you can push as hard as you like on the first few and learn from the experience.
Do not be afraid to ask the receptionist for advice.
"How do I actually get to see someone?"

I did this in Georgia many years ago and having unusual elements in my CV helped get me in to a number of spontaneous interviews.
Take a look at your CV and be sure that it can be read quickly and deliver the key points.
After each visit review what happened and what you might do to be better at it.
Set small goals to start. Just getting the receptionist to be helpful is one, and after that your objective is to fill out as many forms a they have for you.
Seeing anyone from HR is a start, and if you do see HR, you need to get as much information from them as you can and then try and get them to put you in front of someone for even a few minutes.
Baby steps. Each step and each experience part of a learning curve, learning what works and what doesn't.
Sooner or later it will pay off.
Allow plenty of time and hard work. You've already spent 3 years not succeeding, how much of that is wasted time through a wrong approach, or an inadequate approach only you will know.
Take note of what Mint Julep said early on.
Bad impressions are hard to get rid of.
Learn from it. Learn how to give a better impression of yourself.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SWmechE]

I haven't commented on this post because I didn't really think there was much I could add that wasn't stated by others. I came across this article today though and thought it did a very good job of summarizing what most people have said already.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnews/20110413/ts_usnews/whyyourenotgettinghired

I recommend that the OP read this (and the different views above), critically looks at his current path, and then decide how he's going to get off of it. This could be the PhD he mentions and going the academic route or it can be figuring out what is wrong with his approach to attaining a job and actively work on changing that (career councillor?). Just by reading your posts you seem to hit pretty much all of those negatives talked about.

Stating that pretty much everyone has the same interview skills at your level of experience is ridiculous; if going through an engineering degree has taught me anything it's that there are infinitely more socially inept (and otherwise brilliant) engineers than I ever would have predicted. To counterpoint this there are also many who are socially adept and use that to rise above others in the interview process. Additionally using the latest depression as an excuse is no longer valid, things are on the upswing and there are now plenty of companies hiring, especially for those willing to move. Granted my view is skewed from being in Alberta but my understanding is that this is a global trend, even in the economic abyss that is the US

I hope you don't take any posts on here too harshly, I think we all are just trying to provide something constructive, why waste the time otherwise. However you move forward though best of luck, keep us informed... and change that depressing username

 

[jmw]

PS A tip for getting round "rules". I learned this from a colleague and it proved very effective.

If you approach reception and ask about a job and who you should see, the receptionist may say "You need an appointment."
"Who with?" you say.
"I'm sorry, its against company policy to give out names."

Catch 22? Not necessarily.

Have with you an envelope in which you have your CV.
Say "Well, I'd like to leave my CV for whoever it will be."
Take out your pen and be prepared to address the envelope. Rather than address it herself, the receptionist will obligingly give you the name and department to write on the envelope so all she has to do is put it in the right tray.
This may not work with a single envelope so have a stack ready as if to hand over a lot of envelopes to various people. Keep filling them out till you have exhausted her list. Many will be a waste of time but don't reject any she suggests or she might stop. All it will cost you is some envelopes and copies of your CV and covering letter. If time allows you can fill in the persons name on the covering letter before sealing the envelope.
If you arrive looking prepared and don't have to ask for envelopes etc. you are more likely to succeed simply because you expect to succeed.
When she says, "against company policy" etc don't object or get difficult, just say "That's OK, I appreciate that so I've got some envelopes prepared which can go in the internal post for them." Make as if to hand over the envelopes without any address details and you should be home free.

My colleague and I arrived at reception in a big company with a stack of envelopes (not job applications, as it happens, but the principle works the same and the more envelopes, the more likely it is to succeed) and after getting the spiel about "against company policy" we walked away with 20 contacts - one of us addressed the envelopes and the other kept a record of the names, job titles and departments - the three key pieces of information you need to get.

JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[SiliconeAurora]

You must working in the marketing/purchasing side of engineering.

Hey! Dems fightin' words! Sweating and stressing on the floor trying to fix real problems, thank you very much!

I was mostly kidding, but the comment about Feng Shui was too much for me.

 

[ctopher]

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[jmw]

PS:

"... unemployed since graduation...."

....jobs in my field are too far for me to be worthwhile of companies to relocate me.

I think you may expect too much from a first job, especially if you really want one.
You need to go where the jobs are. Once you are established and with a decent track record, then you may start to look for relocation as part of a package. Why would any employer want to relocate you if they could recruit someone locally equally qualified?
You have a struggle enough to find a job without unrealistic expectations.



JMW

http://www.ViscoAnalyser.com

 

[ysm]

unemployedengineer,
One thing that the PhD will do is buy you some more time. But keep looking for jobs during your PhD. Also, try and reflect back on your interviews and write down what you could have said better. Do you talk too much or too little during the interview. Do some research on the company, their newsletter section might help. Also research the areas of interest and expertise of the person interviewing you. Your accent I don't think is a problem if anything it might help you. There is a general notion that foreigners are good engineers . Lastly, don't be too proud to ask for help. Some of the smartest guys here have gotten jobs through referrals, nothing wrong with it.
To fight depression, help others in whatever way you can. Try making online videos of certain topics/tutorials which could benefit undergrad engineering students. This will also keep your basics in shape.

ysm

 

[ysm]

While you have time on your hands, it might not be a bad idea to learn or improve your programming skills (C++, LabView, Matlab etc). An engineer with programming skills is always desired. My friend used to say "He who knows C++ will not die of starvation"

 

[KENAT]

Maybe not starvation, but possibly from boredom or worse stampeded to death at comicon or a star trek convention;-).

Posting guidelines faq731-376

http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

(probably not aimed specifically at you)
What is Engineering anyway: faq1088-1484​

 

[ctopher]

I think he's frustrated with our advice, or found a job.
No reply for a week. I wish him luck.

Chris
SolidWorks 10 SP4.0
ctopher's home
SolidWorks Legion

 

[brandonbw]

I was going to give an interesting other point of view. Maybe make your name on some exotic car boards. There are some very interesting people on those places if you start posting and make yourself known in the engineering field.

Notice what I do and what I am trying to give a heads up on. Though if you are being fake or just doing it to purely get a job, don't bother.

B+W Engineering and Design
Los Angeles Civil and Structural Engineering

http://bwengr.com