How to fix this? 4

[XR250]

W8x67 flush beam w/ 2x10 joists on each side. This is how I showed the beam being packed out....

This is what I got.. Basically, they did not put the OSB in and just cranked the (2)2x8 into the kern of the beam so it is sitting about 3/8" inside the edge of the flange...


Now the hangers are not plumb and are bent. Not sure how to put a number to this. I realize the lower nails are missing but I am not even close to the hanger capacity. I'd like GC to take it down and do the padding correctly if not adding a bit thicker so it sits 1/4" proud of the beam as this will give them the opportunity to clean up the joist cuts. He will be upset to say the least. The entire installation is not great. I mean it is only an 1800 lb beam x 25 ft. long.

 

[KootK]

If we're going to do the punitive thing, it would be nice if we could just be more honest about it and accept bribes.

Dear Mr. Contractor. You've taken some liberties. I'm okay with it in this instance but I'm afraid that I must disincentivize such behavior in the future. So you'll need to give me $1,500.

- Better for XR250

- Better for the contractor.

- Vastly better for the environment.

Modern sensibilities being what they are, disassembling a new, perfectly good thing and replacing it isn't a great look.

 

[EdStainless]

My house has one that is done a lot like this one ended up.
And now there is hump across the floor of the living room.
Is it an issue with load? Not at all.
But the floor may not be flat as things settle.

 

[jerseyshore]

Not sure if it was mentioned above but there is a difference between seeing a problem like this and getting asked your thoughts vs having to put something in writing/ a letter for the town to pass inspection.

I find it relatively easy to tell people that if I need to write a letter then it has to be "up to code" or "work on paper".

If someone sends me this photo, do I think it's pretty? No. Am I losing an ounce of sleep over it. No way.

My am-I-concerned residential meter is Lack of redundancy-->>>lots of redundancy.

Here we have a lot of joists spaced evenly x both sides x lot of nails x hangers = lots of redundancy.

 

[Ron247]

I see this as 3 issues more than 2 problems. One, it looks really unprofessional and unsanitary. If the final product is exposed to view, I would want it corrected as the engineer or the owner. If it is covered up, I could live with it if I had to.

Two, can it support the required loading? If it can support all required loads, it resolves issue 2. It works. If load testing is not good enough, why do they load test lift equipment periodically?

Three, they did not perform the work as designed, bid on and accepted? They did not, question answered. This seems to be the harder issue to resolve. I have worked for and have been a contractor. Of the mistakes we made, they were not indicative of all the work we did or would intentionally do in the future. As far as other contractors I know, just like ALL professions including us, there are good people and dirt bags. Good people appreciate us cutting them some slack when something is not "jam-up" and dirt bags take it as you giving them a lifetime hall pass. Our decision process does include relationships, final outcome, Client loyalty and MANY other factors. For me, one of the early conclusions I have to make is, "Am I dealing with a dirt bag?"

The original post says the lumber sets back 3/8". That is a fairly good size gap. I still question the excess notching. If you look at the wood near the 2nd nail from the top, it looks like another splinter on the edge of the bracket. Can't tell how far he notched it. The toenails resist uplift and horizontal separation. Without the toenails, you rely on subfloor to tie everything together laterally. I have never seen a note on a drawing indicated where subfloor must join. Hope they never have to take the subfloor up due to rot or termites. I also hope the subfloor spans across the connection a good bit. I have seen it be joined on the end of a joist. The long joint is generally not staggered like a short direction joint.

 

[mfgenggear]

So this not a design issue as well.
Why blocking not use or a more dimensionally
Appropriate header?
Why did the contractor not point this out as he or she should. Lots of questions.

 

[mfgenggear]

And what does code depict does it pass?

 

[ViaParadise]

Sorry if it's been mentioned already. Can you just ask them shore up the end about a 1' or so out then just add some angles with a leg to reach out to your 2x10. Simpson has them as well so it shouldn't be too crazy either finding something with a close enough load rating.

 

[SE2607]

The 6 psf is fine on average, until someone buys a piano, and one joist is loaded right up.

A concert grand piano weighs less than 1,500 pounds. Isn't it still a requirement of the code to design for a 2k concentrated load?
My concerns are that the property owner will have banker boxes full of paper and stack them to the ceiling or have a library with bookcases running parallel to floor joists.

 

[Eng16080]

Isn't it still a requirement of the code to design for a 2k concentrated load?

I believe this is only a commercial requirement, not residential.

 

[SWComposites]

My concerns are that the property owner will have banker boxes full of paper and stack them to the ceiling or have a library with bookcases running parallel to floor joists.

you mean like I currently have in my home office.

 

[KootK]

Mrs. KootK, who is also a structural engineer, has this home improvement project on the go at this very moment. It's the addition of a main floor mega-pantry. Lot's of canned goods, jars containing fluids, and the lowest level dedicated to dense dog food storage. All the way to the ceiling...

Let's hope that (P @ < d) shear thing isn't a complete fiction.

 

[XR250]

Let us know if it fails

 

[Ron247]

dense dog food storage

I have a dense dog too, but he is still lovable. Ask him to bring me my slippers and he brings me 2 banana peels.

 

[LittleInch]

Mrs. KootK, who is also a structural engineer, has this home improvement project on the go at this very moment. It's the addition of a main floor mega-pantry. Lot's of canned goods, jars containing fluids, and the lowest level dedicated to dense dog food storage. All the way to the ceiling...

Let's hope that (P @ < d) shear thing isn't a complete fiction.

View attachment 8792

What's with the placing of four cans in each corner??

Seem to be taking spreading the load to the lowest stress points to a rather high level.... You or her?

 

[KootK]

What's with the placing of four cans in each corner??

I had the same question and was mocked mercilessly for asking it. Isn't that a lot of shelving real-estate for 32 cans??

The shelves have grippy liners that get adhered into place to protect the painted particle board. The four corner cans are just to keep the corners from peeling up while the glue dries.

 

[LittleInch]

Ah. Now that makes sense.

But even so - you fill those shelves with cans you've got about 6 months supply?

Given your neighbouring countries likely to go nuts at some point and shut the border, that might be a good move....

 

[KootK]

It's annoying how fragile our food supply is. Particularly the healthy stuff. Mrs. KootK is a US citizen. I'm banking on her being able to go down to Montana and negotiate me some peanuts and grapefruits.

 

[rb1957]

Whilst I understand the value of load testing, I agree with Flotsam. Setting up a test would be hard enough, and then what happens if the test fails ?? And this is a low tech residential project (yes?) rather than a high tech commercial project.

my 2c ... this looks pretty shite to me (but what do I know ?) but then the drawing (if that is the only view) isn't very clear to me either (are the screws meant to be in the open like they are or embedded in joists and such ?).

 

[KootK]

and then what happens if the test fails ??

In the context of a new build like this, I would never do a load test unless I was 99.5% sure of it passing. Here, I'm 99.999995% sure of it passing. I would literally be willing to place my head in a guillotine and watch the test be performed with the consequence of failure being my demise.

Honestly, I only even suggested the load test to mollify the folks that I knew would not be comfortable handwaving this. I wouldn't do the load testing here because I simply would not need that for me to be sufficiently confident of the outcome.

 

[Tomfh]

The four corner cans are just to keep the corners from peeling up while the glue dries

I took it to be an effort to align the point loads with the shelf supports, thereby setting the long-term service load factor to zero and mitigating creep deflection in the particleboard, an approach consistent with best practice in canned goods storage.