suspension bushings
suspension bushings
(OP)
I am working on a street/performance shock mount for a sports car. The original problem that needs redesign is that the rubber bushing wears out very quickly. I do not have much experience with flexible materials ie plastic/rubber. So, how do I go about figuring out what material I need to make the bushing out of? Fatique is my biggest concern.
Thanks
Thanks
RE: suspension bushings
If it is from compression, can you increase the bearing area of the pivot point thru bolt by useing a thick wall sleeve, thus increasing the ID of the bush.
If it is from tension while twisting, can you increase the OD of the bush, and therefore have a thicker wall, so the %age elongation in the material is lower per deg of rotation
Regards
pat
RE: suspension bushings
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: suspension bushings
Bonding the bushing to the inner and outer metal will help. Rubber is a fluid and will flow under high loadings unless it it constrained.
fyi
RE: suspension bushings
Greg, the bushing at this point will be two piece. Upera and lower spererated by a metal piece to servea as somewhat of a pivot point. The shock is then clamped by washers upper and lower. The OD is 1.25" and ID is .5". We don't like to use sphericals unless it is a pure racing application due to quick wear, and harsh ride.
Wade, the stock bushing was bonded, and didn't last long. The one we buy now is only bonded to the inner sleeve, and is more free to move on the OD. I guess this helps not stetch the hole out?
Thanks for the input....I would greatly appreciate some more :)
RE: suspension bushings
Making the rubber bigger is always a good move, and make sure the washers are cupped, not flat.
So far as materials go most performance parts seem to use a polyurethane or a silicon rubber. We tend to use normal black stuff.
Any chance of posting a drawing? there's instructions if you hit the preview button instead of submit.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: suspension bushings
I'v got the picture now
It's simply a compression pad between the shock and the chassis.
The top mount will be a shoulder on the shock shaft with a washer seated on the shoulder, rubber washer, shock shaft through hole on bracket attached to chassis rail, rubberwasher, steel washer, nut on shock shaft holding it all together. Preload on rubber controlled by how far you screw the nut down and the thickness of the washers.
My advice
The washers should be cupped to retain the rubber dureing compression.
The washer should be substantial so that it does not flatten out and allow the elastomer to stretch radially.
If it is rubber, you need to ask a rubber expert, which I am not.
If it is polyurethane it should be a hard, fully crosslinked material (thermoset, not thermoplastic urethane). Fork lift truck tyre grade comes to mind.
Increase the OD of the pads and the washers if there is room.
Remember the surface area of a circle increases as the square of the dia, so a little in dia gives a lot in area
Regards
pat
RE: suspension bushings
Start with a high tensile natural rubber - ASTM M4AA624A13B13C12f17K11 This is a specification for a 60 duro material. You can go harder and reduce the strain level at the loads you are seeing to get it to live longer. However, it will be a tradeoff in ride to do so. Increasing the area (shape factor) is always a good option.
Dense Thermoset Urethane will also work, but if you are looking for any ride characteristics at all you might as well use wood.
RE: suspension bushings
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: suspension bushings
RE: suspension bushings
img http://www.turnermotorsport.com/ben/mount_1.jpg
img http://www.turnermotorsport.com/ben/mount_2.jpg
RE: suspension bushings
The rubber does not need to be surrounded by metal, in fact it can't work if it is is. A simple flat plate with a hole in it works fine!
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: suspension bushings
Thanks for your help everyone
RE: suspension bushings
These same companies routinely bond rubber to metal using a thermoset polyurethane adhesive system. This can be bonded during the molding process or after molding with the application of heat (300 F) and pressure.
We are typically a high volume supplier, but I would be willing to help if you cannot find a source. We have a good prototype department and we may be able to work something out.
Let me know.
RE: suspension bushings
you simply make a mould out of anything from a pice of wood to an old mug, mix the two parts, then pour it in and wait for it to set. You need to choose the grade with the strength/hardness properties you want though. be carefull not to get a foaming grade.
You will need to treat the surface of the mould with a release agent as PU makes an excellent adhesive.
If you want to go to a bit of trouble to make a proper mould, you could incorperate the washers into the bottom of the mould, and use no mould release on the washer to get a bond
Regards
pat
RE: suspension bushings
Also we found that when using two part PUs it was vital to degas the mixture using a vac pump/ultrasonic shaker.
The saving grace with this design is that the elastomer is always in compression, I'm not sure you'll gain much life by going to a bonded part.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: suspension bushings
Thermosets are not really my area, I picked up a bit of knowlege by cross fertilisation while at Bayer. The guy at the next desk sold thermoset PU.
My real area is thermoplastics.
I just accepted from the replies that bonding was benificial, but I did wonder why.
If the washer had the right amount of cupping to give enough restraint to radial expansion so as to prevent failure, but not so much so as to overly restrict compliance, the system should work without bonding.
I would think that it is a ballancing act to get it right, and if it was right, no bonding is necessary, nor desirable
Every shock I ever installed with this mounting system, including Beilstiens and Koni ajustables, had washers that were NOT BONDED.
I think the secret is in getting the right ballance between radii of the washers, projected areas of washers and bushes, duro and thickness of the bushes, but hey, I'm only a plastics technician, not a suspensions systems engineer.
Regards
pat
RE: suspension bushings
I agree, that the washers should not be bonded to the bushing, but wouldn't bonding the inner sleeve help from wear?
RE: suspension bushings
TMS - are you getting wear at the centre? That seems a bit odd. I agree, in this application I have always seen rubber, not PU. Developing a PU shape that is soft enough in 'coning' might be more trouble than it is worth. I'm in two minds about the dynamic rate - there is certainly an argument that it might be worth making one end very stiff(ie a spherical joint) and then making the other end of the shock somewhat softer. This is used on some BMW and/or Merc front ends.
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: suspension bushings
RE: suspension bushings
Cheers
Greg Locock
RE: suspension bushings