There may be more of this stuff on the horizon. There is a reason for trying to achieve 'net zero'. Just take a gander at the latest rapid intensification of the last hurricaine and the large number of fatalities. This may only be a precursor.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

I'd rather discount the breathless worries of any reporting that uses the word "globalist" to describe an engineering problem.

The claims are nearly pure BS. For example, one of the mentioned materials is cadmium telluride, which is apparently insoluble in water, eliminating the possibility it can "leech" into ground water.

Recall that Texas is the state where people froze to death because they could not operate natural gas fired electrical generation.

In any case, if hailstorms become more of a problem the panels can be tilted to protect them.

Quote (solar reviews)

Key takeaways

Hail storms occur between March and October. States that receive the most hail include Texas, Colorado, and Nebraska.

Hail can damage the external surface AND internal components of solar panels.

Not all solar panel warranties cover hail damage. Most homeowners’ insurance provides hail coverage for solar panels installed on rooftops.

High-quality solar panels are very resistant to hail damage and have been tested to withstand such severe weather events.

No matter which side of Net Zero you are on, the biggest problem we face is ourselves. Politicians and special interest only provide knee jerk solutions, that have typically ignored the negatives and just promoted the postives, to maximize their profits.

Texas, Oklahoma and Nebraska have more hail storms than any place in US. So they locate out solar panel farms there, where risk is highest of catastropic failure! I am sure if real engineering was involved in decision making and realistic long term plans implemented, a lot of these type of disastered could be mitigated!

Quote indicates more durable system options available, however due to cost it appears inadequate quality panels were selected for the environment installed.

But special interest like the reoccuring profit model to replaced failed panels in an emergency situation where large areas are without power fue to one hail storm!

3DDave, I suggest researching groundwater contamination by PCB's. It's another hydrophobic compound but under certain conditions it can mix with groundwater

Well this risk is not unknown to the insurance industry. When the rates get too high hail risk will become a site selection criteria.
Hail return frequencies are available from VDE - LINK .

Quote (VDE)

VDE Americas' hail return interval data covers the Continental United States (CONUS) and is available as an organization-level subscription. This set of data includes the return interval (RI) in years for naturally occurring hail (NOH) ranging in diameter from 25 mm (1 in.) to 95 mm (3.7 in.) and the maximum estimated hailstone diameter (dmax) for cumulative return intervals (e.g, 40 years or 100 years). The return interval metric characterizes the estimated amount of time between discrete events. Typical return interval periods for this data set include <25 years, 25–50 years, 50–100 years, 100–250 years, 250–500 years, 500–1,000 years, 1,000–5,000 years, and ≥5,000 years.

Think I read somewhere there is a 200 MW with 600 MWh of battery going in near Las Vegas next year.

You mean individually molecular PCBs vs. crystaline cadmium telluride?

Those are not comparable risks.

Did you know that there is a lethal amount of water one can ingest? Better keep water out of wells.

It's bad enough there are Chicken Littles, but now come the flock of Chicken Liars.

The European Chemicals Agency ECHA classifies cadmium telluride as very toxic to aquatic life.

Gasoline fuel and diesel exhaust still carcinogenic? Let's make the huge risk into a far smaller risk.

Gasoline and diesel float on water. Much easier to manage.

The CdTe layer in a solar cell is sandwiched inside a bunch of other layers of stuff, so is not easily accessible for immediate leaching, not to mention that the thickness of the CdTe layer is at most 10 um. https://www.nrel.gov/pv/cadmium-telluride-solar-ce...

Note that the leaching potential for Cd from CdTe is often based on testing ground up CdTe, which would not be the case with broken solar panels, since the exposed CdTe would have an extremely small surface area. https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/engineering/l...

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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It's a big assumption to make that the panels would break up into chunks and that they layers wouldn't separate. Is the bond between the CdTe and silica molecules stronger than the silica to silica bond?

Quote:

Is the bond between the CdTe and silica molecules stronger than the silica to silica bond?

The layers are deposited using an epitaxy process, so only slightly less strength than pure bulk material. Moreover, the CdTe layer is 8 um thick, so this is not something that separates, otherwise we'd have massive failures of all sorts of PV panels and infrared sensors, just from temperature cycling.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

Care to drink some water that has been contaminated with gasoline or diesel fuel, Tug?
I know of a case where cattle were dropping deformed calves as a result of diesel contamination in the ground water.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

If you cannot tell, you won't like the answer.

Perhaps they are using the same Scientist/Intelligence Agencies that Bush used to cite "Weapons of Mass Destruction" as. reason to launch a War against Iraq?

Or the Covid 6' separation scientist?

SEIA-why-you-dont-need-worry-about-broken-solar-panels

Waross, at least I can taste the diesel or gasoline if the levels are high enough to be harmful.

Excellent link stevenal...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

From above link to SEIA's web site, it states SEIS is a lobbying association to fight for policies/legislation that promotes solar energy.

Hardly an unbiased independent group! Buyer Beware.

The thing is when hail storms take out your total electric energy grid, in parts of Texas where all they have is solar, there is not a short and quick process to procure new panels and replace massive solar fields. Thus a backup system is required. Perhaps that will be sand blasted desert based wind mills?

Solar and Wind Mills are partial capacity solutions with a host of issues and trades, that can never supply the power required by our grid 24/7 even with massive battery storage farms. It takes carbon to build and install solar farms and back up storage. No free lunch. AI data centers demand vast amounts of energy, along with mandated EV's. We are on crash and burn path, IMO.

We need to cover the solar panels with Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott's Transparent Aluminum! It allowed carrying tons of whales and water (from the movie Star Trek IV - The Voyage Home) and still had a clear view of the whales inside so I would assume no blockage of the energy in the sun's rays.

Quote (Oops409)

Hardly an unbiased independent group! Buyer Beware.

Good thing we have X to provide the unbiased truth about what's in the panels. Just can't trust those lying manufacturer members of the trade association.

Beats the political hatred sewn by the astroturfing campaigns from the petroleum and natural gas cartels.

Remember - the mystery chemicals that they inject for fracking aren't ever to be disclosed because when they are found in water wells that would let the farmers know who to sue. Hundreds of additional earthquakes over magnitude 3 every year in OK? Not related in any way to fracking, say the fracking companies. Almost no earthquakes in OK before fracking started.

"It takes carbon to build and install solar farms and back up storage," except for wind and solar and hydro and geothermal electrical sources. A lot of aluminum ore is processed by the TVA hydroelectric dams. Even steel is getting recycled in electric furnaces.

"when hail storms take out your total electric energy grid" is not what happened here.

What did happen in Texas is the majority of electrical production was taken out because is was cold. The wind farms, normally down-rated for winter, produced more than expected when the gas-fired turbines stopped turning.

Interesting on the concern about pollution from the broken panels as coal fired plants produce sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides as well as releasing tons of radioactive materials into the air.

America was certainly great when its rivers were so polluted they could literally catch fire. I suppose if people continue to poison themselves that will really teach the globalists a lesson.

I agree Oops409. I want more information from an independent source not associated with green energy or fossil fuel industries.

At face value, I don't know how one can say that it is safe when a field of solar panels gets smashed by hail storms. A cursory review shows that solar panels can contain lead, arsenic, and cadmium. The components that make up the solar panels are now likely to be part of the surrounding soil for a long time, if not forever, after a big hail storm.

This is the issue with most man-made items. The exterior of my 130-year-old house was likely painted with lead paint at one time. I'm sure if you tested the soil around my house, it would test positive for lead paint from previous scraping, sanding, and prep work for re-painting. That soil will always now have traces of lead.

Are you going to eat the soil? I hope not. Are you going to breathe it in on a dry, windy day? Maybe.

Solar companies are always closing down, with owners opening a new company to avoid some legal issues. I often wonder what will happen to the fields of solar panels in 30 years when they are no longer effective and the company is no longer around. Who will pay for their disposal and replacement? I can take a wild guess.

Let's hope we're not developing the future superfund sites because of the "need" for solar panels.

Quote:

We need to cover the solar panels with Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott's Transparent Aluminum!

Great idea.
I came across that product a few days ago when browsing the local building supply store.
An added advantage;
It was much cheaper than the Unobtainium displayed two bins over.
(I thoght that strange. I had always assumed that Transparent Aluminum was a derivative of Unobtainium.)
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

The CdTe solar cell technology is pretty straightforward; even without the plastic coating, the solar cell structure is layered with glass on one side and a metallic layer on the other.

I posted a bad link early about Cd leaching from solar cells. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC56078... used two things that are not present in the current situation, "granulated" solar cell material, which is not the case here, and a "continuousflow column simulating the acidic landfill phase," which is also not present. Furthermore, the panels were "prepared" by smashing the panels as well as separating the CdTe layer from the glass protection, again, something that is not present in this case. Only after all of this did the leaching exceed legal limits. Biased much?

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

Quote (Wikipedia)

Cadmium's use is generally decreasing because it is toxic (it is specifically listed in the European Restriction of Hazardous Substances Directive[7]) and nickel–cadmium batteries have been replaced with nickel–metal hydride and lithium-ion batteries. Due to it being a neutron poison, cadmium is also used as a component of control rods in nuclear fission reactors. One of its few new uses is in cadmium telluride solar panels.

From the 3D Holy Grail of Information! 🦍

Edit: In addition to the taste sense, I can see fuel or oil mixed with water, smell it, and feel the difference between oil and water.

I suppose the external links SEIA are biased as well? The gridinfo.com link claims crystalline silicon.

Of course Mr. Wide Awake provided no backup at all to his assertions.

If you like Wikipedia:

Quote (3D Holy Grail of Information)

Crystalline silicon is the dominant semiconducting material used in photovoltaic technology for the production of solar cells. These cells are assembled into solar panels as part of a photovoltaic system to generate solar power from sunlight.

Quote:

Mr. Wide Awake

Actually, I gender ID female today, so I can start an 8A company to be awarded Government Set-Aside Contracts.

Wikipedia is the 3D Holy Grail of Information, to be clear..... Quote was from Wikipedia.......