Summer vacations have been 'messed up' a tad... airlines and private jets could be affected in the long term... This also raised the question about maintaining infrastructure... will there come a time when it might become a matter of throwing good money after bad? The money might be better spent looking after the effects of AGW...

"From the litany of bad headlines surrounding the world of travel, you could be forgiven thinking it’s been the summer from hell for vacationers.

Environmental disasters, aviation industry mishaps and strikes, dirty beaches, soaring temperatures, deluges, price hikes and overcrowding all seem to have conspired to ruin getaways for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people this year.

For the most part, the inconvenience of travelers has been nothing compared to the tragic impact some of these situations have had on communities around the world.

But, for many people, a summer break is a much-needed annual highlight that offers respite from the stresses not just of everyday life, but other often extreme hardships.

Of course, huge numbers of lucky people enjoyed trouble-free vacations around the world. For every angry thread of tweets from airport departure lounges, there were likely many more smiling poolside selfies.

It’s the bad news that travels furthest. Here’s a roundup of some of the adversity that vacationers have faced over the past few months:"

https://www.cnn.com/travel/2023-summer-from-hell

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Electric roads...

"Sweden is exploring the possibility electric roads which charge electric vehicles as they drive. Adrienne Murray paid a visit to a demonstration project in the south of the country where a new type of technology is being put through its paces."

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gcbkjs/sweden-s-i...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Would electromagnetic charging create resistance to motion on the car?

From the clip, it's actually by contact and shuts off the juice when the vehicle goes over it.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Oh my. It's dumber than I thought. Or, is it? Create an idea so stupid it has to fail, name it in such a way as to create a false association with a other brand, scam some investors and governments while you're at it, and voila... "Elonroad".

I have no idea... but there will likely be a couple of 'oops' in the future when it comes to addressing AGW.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Do they not know what happens to 650 VDC contacts when they get wet? Are the engineers really that dumb or are they taking advantage of your fear?

This works for rail, most of the time, because the contacts are elevated and have protection from the weather.

Do they think people are going to tolerate major roadways being shut down for regular rail replacement?

How long is each section going to be? The maximum length for 3rd rails appears to be about 1 mile. Can a car accept a reasonable amount of charge within 1 minute?

It really is a stupid idea.

We'll have to find out... it's experimental at this point.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

On a positive side, Sweden's power is mostly hydro and nuclear...

"Majority of electricity production in Sweden relies on hydro power and nuclear power. In 2008 the consumption of electricity in Sweden was 16018 kWh per capita, compared to EU average 7409 kWh per capita.[1] Sweden has a national grid, which is part of the Synchronous grid of Northern Europe. A specialty of the Nordic energy market is the existence of so-called electricity price areas, which complicate the wholesale Nordic energy market."

A great place for electric vehicles...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (dik)

It’s the bad news that travels furthest. Here’s a roundup of some of the adversity that vacationers have faced over the past few months:"

What's not mentioned is that this was THE summer of travel for many places. Huge boon to the economies of those countries seeing lots of visitors. I think just as much of the travel issues can be blamed on this as can be blamed on "climate change".

Why were so many people traveling and traveling longer distances? Well, because people basically didn't travel in 2020 or 2021 due to the pandemic. Then, for 2022, people pretty much just traveled short distances (visiting family they hadn't seen in a couple of years and such). But, it was still difficult to travel internationally. There was something of a backlog for getting passports and visa's processed. Plus, you still had to navigate various protocols depending on where you went. What kind of proof of vaccination did you have to show? Were you required to wear masks in airports, on planes, at hotels, in museums or cathedrals?

But, this summer was finally a return to normalcy and A LOT of people took advantage of it. And, the airports, cruises, hotels, tourist attractions and such had to accommodate not just the regular numbers, but a big increase in tourism.

Personally, I've done a lot more traveling this summer than normal. My family went to Europe for a two week vacation. I've traveled to Northern California (nieces baby shower) and Oregon (dropping my daughter off to college). The only issues I've experienced were the following:

a) VERY hot weather in Rome (104 degrees).
b) Uncomfortably hot weather in Florence (mid to high 90s). But, that's mostly based on the fact that I'm the fattest and most out of shape I've ever been in my life.
c) Brutally long customs line when we got back to the USA.

Note: My my wife caught covid in the customs line at the end of our trip and gave it to the whole family within the next week or so. She'd been double vaccinated and double boosted (she a nurse who works in a hospital). No real problems from Covid. Though my lungs may still be recovering as I can't seem to get rid of this occasional cough. Maybe it's just allergies, but it feels worse than that.

Another take... see attached.

https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1695149726/tips/World_s_Energy_Problem_is_Far_Worst_than_we_re_Being_Told_di2r8r.pdf

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

I suspect there will be a lot more of this in the future... This approach will likely slow any progress in reversing the effects of AGW.

"Rishi Sunak is considering weakening some of the government's key green commitments in a major policy shift.

It could include delaying a ban on the sales of new petrol and diesel cars and phasing out gas boilers, multiple sources have told the BBC.

The PM is preparing to set out the changes in a speech in the coming days.

Responding to the reported plans, he said the government was committed to reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050 but in a "more proportionate way".

The aim of net zero is for the UK to take out of the atmosphere as many greenhouse gas emissions - such as carbon dioxide - as it puts in.

The prime minister said: "For too many years politicians in governments of all stripes have not been honest about costs and trade-offs. Instead they have taken the easy way out, saying we can have it all.

"This realism doesn't mean losing our ambition or abandoning our commitments. Far from it."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66857551

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Another take... see attached.

Really? You're reduced to posting a year-old 'we're running out of coal, gas, and oil' meme? Of course, you can find stories just like it going back at least 50 years, and the known fossil fuel reserves have continued to grow over that time.

Anyway, we will never actually run out of fossil fuels. Eventually, the cost of extraction may exceed the cost of other sources of energy. Consumption will (naturally) decline, as use of other energy sources gradually increases. That's if we let the market take its natural course. If we artificially push fossil fuels out of the market, we will create economic hardship and suffering for millions and billions of people unnecessarily. That's the one part of the picture the article you linked to got right.

Make that 51-67 years. The first time I came across Peak Oil was a 1972 National Geographic, on a pile of old magazines in a climbing hut in New Zealand. Hubbert's original prediction was published in 1956 and said that global production would peak in about 2006. Predicting the future is hard, as Yogi Berra said. Of course the entire climate panic industry is littered with failed predictions, this one is pretty harmless.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Well not quite harmless, it sort of encouraged this

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Quote (BridgeSmith)

Really? You're reduced to posting a year-old 'we're running out of coal, gas, and oil' meme? Of course, you can find stories just like it going back at least 50 years, and the known fossil fuel reserves have continued to grow over that time.

Anyway, we will never actually run out of fossil fuels. Eventually, the cost of extraction may exceed the cost of other sources of energy. Consumption will (naturally) decline, as use of other energy sources gradually increases. That's if we let the market take its natural course. If we artificially push fossil fuels out of the market, we will create economic hardship and suffering for millions and billions of people unnecessarily. That's the one part of the picture the article you linked to got right.

My perspective on this:
1) Yes, these stories have been written continuously for +50 years. They were alarmist drivel then for certain.
2) I'm not convinced that they're quite as alarmist now. My perspective is that the reason why we have more known fossil fuel reserves now is because we have advanced our technology for extraction so much since then. Without that, our reserves would NOT be larger.
3) Like you say, at some point the cost of extraction will make these types of energy less used in comparison to other energy sources. However, that will likely be related to a large increase in energy costs.... at least in the short term.
4) Our "transition" from fossil fuels to alternative energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, geothermal) is an excellent way to kill two birds with one stone. Reduce our greenhouse gas emissions AND prepare for a day when fossil fuels are less abundant / affordable.
5) The key to me (as it always has been) is how to do this with the least amount of economic and political pain. The left believes we need to go Carbon Neutral NOW, which is economic suicide. The politicians want to "virtue signal" by throwing money at the least efficient and scalable methods of electricity production. They are afraid of clean and safe nuclear solely because of the politics, not the science or reality. The environmentalist also dislike nuclear.... because it's not 'natural' or something. Even though it is safe, clean, and carbon free.

#5 all the way...

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

Quote:

#5 all the way...

I agree! Even modern Uranium-fired nuclear power plants are very safe, and Thorium-fired plants are even safer, with Thorium molten salt reactors being the safest because in addition to being immune to meltdowns, it's also impossible to steal the materials to make weapons.

#5... if it can be done in time...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

A step in the right direction:

"The Stack in Vancouver set a milestone in Canada’s real estate, by being the first commercial high-rise office tower to achieve the Canada Green Building Council’s (CAGBC’s) Zero Carbon Building – Design standard certification.

Co-owned by Oxford Properties Group Inc. (Oxford) and CPP Investments, The Stack, designed by renowned architect James K.M. Cheng in collaboration with Adamson Associates Architects, is a 37-storey, AAA-class office tower located at 1133 Melville Street in downtown Vancouver. It features a unique design resembling boxes stacked on each other.

The Stack’s zero carbon status contributes significantly to Vancouver and British Columbia’s 2030 zero-carbon goals. Innovative features, including low carbon building systems and a high-performance triple-pane glazing system, minimize carbon emissions and energy intensity. Smart building technology optimizes energy management, while a rooftop photovoltaic (PV) solar panel array generates 26,000kWh of energy annually."

https://www.constructioncanada.net/vancouvers-tall...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote:

while a rooftop photovoltaic (PV) solar panel array generates 26,000kWh of energy annually."

That's almost enough to power my house, but likely not a significant percentage for a 37 storey office building.

You use too much power. That would power my house about 4 times, but still puny in comparison to the high rise office building.

Edit: My usage will be unrealistic to many here, as we don't need to heat, and have only a few days each year when we need AC for a few hours.

In addition to carbon reduction, there will likely be a reduction in power usage to go with it. Just how much, it's a matter of waiting.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Turdeau on the carpet again...

"Speaking at the Climate Ambition Summit in New York City on Wednesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was grilled for Canada’s massive oil and gas expansion at a time when climate science demands fossil fuels be rapidly phased out.

United Nations Under-Secretary-General Melissa Fleming invited Trudeau to speak but before he did, she noted Canada was one of the largest expanders of fossil fuels last year and asked what Canada is doing to align with the Acceleration Agenda — a series of steps rich countries should take, which the UN says can rescue the Paris Agreement from failing like so many climate accords of the past.

The Acceleration Agenda calls for rich countries to set net-zero by 2040 targets, phase out coal power by 2030, end fossil fuel subsidies, set ambitious renewable energy targets, implement fair, equitable and just energy transitions, and for new standards of climate justice to guide decision-making."

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/09/21/news/t...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

I hope he told them to pound sand.

Quote:

You're reduced to posting a year-old 'we're running out of coal, gas, and oil' meme? Of course, you can find stories just like it going back at least 50 years

The doom and gloom goes back at least 150 years to the mid-1800s when academics were screeching that England would run out of coal and wood by the late-1800s, which were their two major forms of energy at the time.

Quote:

The Acceleration Agenda calls for rich countries to set net-zero by 2040 targets, phase out coal power by 2030, end fossil fuel subsidies, set ambitious renewable energy targets, implement fair, equitable and just energy transitions, and for new standards of climate justice to guide decision-making."

So, that means China needs to clean up their act, and the US (which is $33 trillion in debt) should be exempt, right?

Both bad, and not doing enough...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

I think the US is doing really well at keeping actual pollution low. Our water and air are very clean. Our CO2 output/energy production ratio is far better, too, not that I think we should be concerned over CO2 output, anyway.

You're still on the +ve side and at the top... that has to stop.

The US is at the top for reduction, thought... China, Russia, and India are still increasing...



and another chart...



-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Per capita is bs, dik.

Not at all... it adjusts for the fact that China and India have 5x the population of the US...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

We're in totally new territory...

"Here are four climate records broken so far this summer - the hottest day on record, the hottest June on record globally, extreme marine heatwaves, record-low Antarctic sea-ice "

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (dik)

You're still on the +ve side and at the top... that has to stop.

No it doesn't.

CO2 is plant food, not pollution.

Quote (dik)

and another chart...

A totally useless one, without a legend to inform the reader of what's being charted.

BBC report is wrong, in 1966 the Antarctic ice situation was much the same as today.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Quote (No it doesn't.)

Keep up the good work, then... we'll have to wait and see where that takes us...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

It appears that California is trying to do something about it.

"California Gov. Gavin Newsom drew loud cheers and applause on Wednesday when he spoke at the UN’s Climate Ambition Summit in New York, after pointedly calling the climate crisis “a fossil fuel crisis.”

He told the room full of global leaders, climate advocates and non-governmental organizations the world needs to phase out oil, gas and coal and castigated the fossil fuel industry for “deceit and denial.” He was also the lone US official who spoke at the UN secretary general’s hand-picked summit, though climate envoy John Kerry also attended.

It was an overwhelming response from an audience of people who, while optimistic about humanity’s ability to solve the climate crisis, are cynically used to hearing leaders give the issue watered-down lip service."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/24/us/california-clima...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Does it matter that he drew applause at an event with a restricted guest list? What a joke of an article.

There's real irony in a state-level politician from one of our most-polluted states who has defended hiring environmental "experts" with fake degrees, pointing fingers about an "environmental crisis" to an international audience. Terrible ethics and sadly, a large portion of the.media paints him as a hero.

WSJ just published an article about fake peer-reviewed studies. They highlighted some soft targets in the story. I wonder how many related to climate change?

The Band of Debunkers Busting Bad Scientists - WSJ https://www.wsj.com/science/data-colada-debunk-sta...

5500 retractions in 2022 vs. 150ish in 2002. The article paywalled itself so I can't confirm exact numbers.

If there's a buck to be made... beware of the snakeoil salesmen... it seems to be the way these days...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Now apply this to climate change.

So you're just doing this for the money, dik?

nope...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (dik)

If there's a buck to be made... beware of the snakeoil salesmen... it seems to be the way these days...

Yup, which is why I don't trust AOC, Bernie, Greta, Gore and any of the other climate alarmists. They're all finding a way to profit off this. Either with direct income (Gore, AOC), fundraising fame, or consolidation of power into the hands of the government. At best, this is what they're after. Power, money, fame. At worst, they are just the type of "useful fools" that communists love in their desire to seek more and more oppressive power.

or any of the others... including our own Turdeau...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

There could be a down side...

"It has been reported that temperatures on Earth could skyrocket to around 70C (185F) which would ultimately transform the planet from what we know it to be like now, into a ‘hostile environment devoid of food and water’, the researcher who conducted this study has warned everyone.

If this study is to come true, then it would mean Earth’s temperature would simply become too hot for mammals to live and would no longer be able to survive as we/they all do now, but that is not all that would change."

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/09/26/supercompute...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote:

It has been reported that temperatures on Earth could skyrocket to around 70C

This is such a baseless claim that they can't even cite an expert, paper or such. Just "it has been reported". The study" cited in this article also suggests that increased volcanic activity will results in a "super continent". That the sun would "become hotter" (whatever that means). This may be the single dumbest and poorly written piece of alarmist drivel that has ever been written.

It has also been reported that the Y2k would result in a massive crises and that the world would fall into chaos. It has also been reported that the world would end in 2012 based on some dumb interpretation of the Mayan calendar.

Dik - Seriously, are you trolling us with this drivel? You can't possibly have read that article and thought that there was any genuine merit to it. Right?

Quote (The Article)

This supercomputer has predicted that the sun will drastically become brighter due to tectonic movements...

Hmmm, wouldn't a thought it possible.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

Not at all... just pointing out what a possible outcome is... The systems have so much energy, I have no idea of where we will end up since we are doing very little to mitigate things... It's the most extreme 'model' I've encountered to date.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (Hmmm, wouldn't a thought it possible.)

I thought it was pretty far fetched... but, don't know enough to refute it. I can see with the polar caps melting there being a shift in the mass distribution of the earth. I can see this influencing tectonic plate related stuff with possible seismic implications... I don't think it will happen, but can see the mechanisms for it to happen, if it did occur.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

dik, no need, it refutes itself :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

I'd like to think that...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Rather than waste everybody's time perhaps a search for the actual paper would have been useful

Here is its abstract

A new study shows unprecedented heat is likely to lead to the next mass extinction, akin to when the dinosaurs died out, eliminating nearly all mammals in some 250 million years time.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/2309...

For context 250 million years ago there weren't even dinosaurs (but there were crocodiles)

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Quote (Greg Locock)

Rather than waste everybody's time perhaps a search for the actual paper would have been useful

Dik -

I have to say I agree with Greg here. I think that "article" (and I use that term generously) was a waste of everybody's time. It should have been self evident that it was meaningless drivel.

I kindly suggest that you exercise a little better judgment when sharing links with this group. It's not that I don't tolerate the occasional garbage post. Rather, it's that such links really tarnish your otherwise good name.

It was just an extreme possibility, IMHO... I don't know where this will end up.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote:

It was just an extreme possibility, IMHO... I don't know where this will end up.

There are literally a nearly infinite number of ridiculously extreme possibilities. If you're going to start posting all of them, this will become a very long and useless thread. I suggest you stick to posting scenarios that have evidence, or at least sound scientific and logical backing, to support their conclusions. Another good criteria might be that the predictions are limited to the next hundred years or less, considering the 'experts' are still failing to predict the weather accurately a week in advance.

@Bridge... I noted in an earlier post that with climate change things could get really ugly. This is just a 'heads up' or caution about how ugly things could get. In the disasters forum, there is talk about a Lybian earthen dam failure with thousands of lives lost. It's in thread:

thread815-511922: Dam Failures in Derna, Libya

Rainfall was likely between 10 and 30 times what was normal. This is nowhere near how ugly things can get... In addition, if things get ugly, there can be a whole pile of hurt caused by geopolitical issues...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

There was an earlier note about taking countries to court over climate change. This has been extended..

""What I felt was fear," says Claudia Duarte Agostinho as she remembers the extreme heatwave and fires that ripped through Portugal in 2017 and killed more than 100 people. "The wildfires made me really anxious about what sort of future I would have."

Claudia, 24, her brother Martim, 20, and her sister Mariana, 11, are among six young Portuguese people who have filed a lawsuit against 32 governments, including all EU member states, the UK, Norway, Russia, Switzerland and Turkey.

They accuse the countries of insufficient action over climate change and failing to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions enough to hit the Paris Agreement target of limiting global warming to 1.5C.

The case is the first of its kind to be filed at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg. If it is successful, it could have legally-binding consequences for the governments involved. The first hearing in the case is being held on Wednesday.

Aged from 11 to 24, the six claimants argue that the forest fires that have occurred in Portugal each year since 2017 are a direct result of global warming.

They claim that their fundamental human rights - including the right to life, privacy, family life and to be free from discrimination - are being violated due to governments' reluctance to fight climate change."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66923590

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Yeah, so the same governments that cannot adequately provide for their citizens most basic needs thru well known means are somehow supposed to adjust the weather thru completely unproven means.

These lawsuits are just grift on a large scale. Who ought to be sued is the climate change industrial complex that is terrifying these kids. Its pure evil.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

I remember when the European human rights courts were trying Nazi war criminals. I guess they ran out... Oh wait, one just turned up in Canada.

ya... Turdeau's friend...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote:

There are literally an infinite number of ridiculously extreme possibilities. If you're going to start posting all of them, this will become a very long and useless thread.

Will become...future tense?

Quote:

thread1618-496010: Things are Starting to Warm Up.: Things are Starting to Warm Up.
thread1618-496614: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
thread1618-497017: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part III: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part III
thread1618-497239: Things are Starting to Warm/Heat Up Part IV: Things are Starting to Warm/Heat Up Part IV
thread1618-497988: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V
thread1618-498967: Things are Starting to Heat Up Part VI: Things are Starting to Heat Up Part VI
thread1618-501135: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VII: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VII
thread1618-504850: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII
thread1618-506948: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part IX: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part IX
thread1618-507973: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X
thread1618-510266: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XI: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XI

I don't like the term infinite... an anecdote from about 30 years back. My wife and I were shopping for a new stove. We went into the Sears in Pickering Village, Ontario to look at stoves... a salesman 'pounced on us' and started telling us about the stoves. He noted that one of the stoves we were looking at had infinite temperature control. I informed him that if we were to live forever, we would never be able to appreciate that feature. It went right over his head...

Even the geologic time scale, is finite...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Meanwhile back on UHI

Roy Spencer has a look at UHI and how it (a) increases the average temperature trend for the USA, and (b) results in scary headlines for dik to post about temperatures in cities in summer.

https://www.drroyspencer.com/2023/09/summer-warmin...

The thing is, UHI is real, and it does result in higher temperatures. But it is not CO2 related. So using UHI affected temperature trends to drive the CO2 narrative is misleading at best.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Infinite goes both ways. Things can be infinitely small as well. From a controls perspective infinite refers to an analog system and finite refers to digital. A potentiometer has an infinite number of positions it can park on while a switch has limited steps.

With that said, I don't think that infinite temperature control is much of a benefit for a stove. That would typically imply some type of capillary tube type heat control which is about as crude as it gets. Then again, there are a lot of stoves with Robertshaw "infinite" controls still running out there.

Quote (dik)

I don't like the term infinite.

Ok, I changed it to "nearly infinite". Now can we address the absurd fearmongering drivel you posted?

Fixed it for you.

Quote:

Who ought to be sued is the climate change industrial complex that is terrifying these kids and dik. Its pure evil.

Heh :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

Some communities rely on ice melt for their water supply...

"Switzerland's glaciers have lost a further 4% of their volume this year - the second biggest loss ever - after last year's record melt of 6%.

The statistics come in the annual report of the Swiss Glacier Monitoring Network (Glamos), whose team of researchers have been monitoring 176 of Switzerland's 1,400 glaciers for years.

They warn it may now be too late to save many of the alpine ice fields, even if climate targets are met.

"It's terrible," said the Glamos chief.

In just two years, Switzerland's glaciers have lost 10% of their total volume - as much as they lost in the three decades between 1960 and 1990.

Glaciologists measuring the ice take no comfort in the fact that this year's melt is slightly smaller than last year's record.

"It was still the second most negative year since measurements started," Matthias Huss, the head of Glamos, told the BBC. "It's terrible to see that this extreme of last year is just repeating."

The researchers say the loss is due to consecutive very warm summers, and last winter's very low snowfall. If these weather patterns continue, they say, the thaw will only accelerate.

Some of Switzerland's smaller glaciers have already disappeared."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66950328

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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Maybe things will cool off in October...

"The world's September temperatures were the warmest on record, breaking the previous high by a huge margin, according to the EU climate service.

Last month was 0.93C warmer than the average September temperature between 1991-2020, and 0.5C hotter than the previous record set in 2020.

Ongoing emissions of warming gases in addition to the El Niño weather event are driving the heat, experts believe.

Some scientists said they were shocked by the scale of the increase.

They say 2023 is now "on track" to be the warmest on record."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67017...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

October is our summer in the SF Bay Area.

I trust you had a nice warm summer... one of the warmest on record, it would seem.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Negative, it's been a very cool and wet year.

overall, according to the data, it was warmer everywhere else... and if you were cool, other places were much warmer to adjust the data average...

and from Copernicus...

"September was yet another blistering hot month around the world and the fourth month in a row that was its hottest on record, a new report shows."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/sep...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

" adjust the data"? Is that some type of Freudian slip?

Not at all... if the data says the average temperature is 'such and such' and your weather has been cooler, then it means that other places have been more hot...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

And that's the weather from Lake Woeisus, where all the temperatures are above average:)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

'...and the heat goes on, yes, the heat goes on' with apologies to Sonny and Cher...

"The first time this happened in the modern era was for a few days in December 2015, when politicians were signing the deal on the 1.5C threshold.

Since then the limit has been repeatedly broken, typically only for short periods.

In 2016, influenced by a strong El Niño event - a natural climate shift that tends to increase global temperatures - the world saw around 75 days that went above that mark.

But BBC analysis of data from the Copernicus Climate Change Service shows that, up to 2 October, around 86 days in 2023 have been over 1.5C warmer than the pre-industrial average. That beats the 2016 record well before the end of the year.

There is some uncertainty in the exact number of days that have breached the 1.5C threshold, because the numbers reflect a global average which can come with small data discrepancies. But the margin by which 2023 has already passed 2016 figures gives confidence the record has already been broken.

"The fact that we are reaching this 1.5C anomaly daily, and for a longer number of days, is concerning," said Dr Lazenby."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66857...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

When you say pre-industrisal that certainly can't include all time prior to the industrial revolution? What is the earliest time you would like to limit pre-industrial to?

The late 1800s... but it's not an issue to quibble about. This detracts from a very serious problem.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

It's a serious issue to quibble about. There were certainly times of higher temperature pre-1800's. It's important you properly describe your interval and why you chose to ignore earlier data.

Quote:

it's been a very cool and wet year.

Same in the midwest. Here in Detroit we only had a few odd days in the low-90F's and none 100F+ this year. My neighbor succeeded again this year but had to work really hard to kill his lawn.

The late 1800s were still recovering from the Little Ice Age, so were a very poor basis for comparison. Here's the one that proves that CO2 is not the thermostat

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_climatic_op...

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Nuclear power...

"Within the large community of scientists who share deep concern over climate change and accept the urgent need to greatly reduce carbon emissions, there is a sharp divide over the future role of nuclear power in the global energy mix. Among these scientists, arguments for nuclear power’s necessity, desirability, dangers, and impracticality abound.

The case for nuclear power as a necessary component of the fight against climate change typically assumes that sun, wind, and increased efficiency cannot meet future energy needs, particularly baseload demand. Those making the case for the desirability of nuclear power emphasize the relatively small amount of land needed to obtain nuclear fuel and site reactors, and the near absence of the pollutants associated with fossil fuel burning during operation.

Those warning of unacceptable dangers associated with nuclear power generation point to accidents at Fukushima and Chernobyl, to increasing threat of nuclear war among nations if more and more nations have the capability to produce weapons-grade isotopes, to stages in the fuel cycle that could be vulnerable to diversion of radioactive material by terrorists, and to potential leakage from spent fuel storage sites. Those arguing that increased use of nuclear power is impractical mainly emphasize its relatively high cost, its lengthy deployment time, and the absence of widespread public acceptance."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/nuclear-power-why-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (dik)

Those warning of unacceptable dangers associated with nuclear power generation point to accidents at Fukushima and Chernobyl

These are both red herrings. What was the damage from Fukushima? Something close to 20,000 deaths from the earthquake and ensuing tidal wave. There was release of radiation, but the amount that the general public could have seen from this was negligible. And, there has not been one recorded death or even acute illness among workers at the site as a result of radiation exposure.

Chernobyl was absolutely awful. This is undeniable. But, this was a poorly built plant (by western standards) and the actions that led up to the disaster showed tremendous institutional incompetence that would never be allowed by a non-communist country. Even so, the total number of deaths is now at 45. Two from debris, 28 by acute radiation sickness and 15 from thyroid cancer (which can easily be directly attributed to radiation exposure). That is probably a smaller number because there is likely an increased cancer mortality rate amongst those exposed, but it's difficult to say exactly how much can be attributed to the incident.

My belief is that no member of the general public died as a result of either incident.

Now, compare the total number of workers deaths from those incidents (45-ish) with the amount of injuries that you get from other sources of power:

• Oil rigs in the ocean. The estimate for number of deaths per year is 108.... And, that's EVERY YEAR.
• At oil refineries, the statistics are harder to come by. But, the site I found tracked 137 deaths in the US over a 20 year period.
• The worldwide estimate for number of deaths from the solar industry is 100. But, in the US there were 10 deaths from the installation of rooftop solar panels in 2020. My guess is (due to the pandemic) this was a down year for the number of deaths because less work was occurring.

Looking at it this way, nuclear is far and away the safest means of energy production we have. It's just that a lot of people (on the left and right) have an "ick" factor related to nuclear power. Maybe it's related to it being 'unnatural'. Maybe it's because of the media portrayal. Maybe we view these power plant workers based on the way Homer Simpson is portrayed on that sitcom.

Quote:

Chernobyl was absolutely awful. This is undeniable. But, this was a poorly built plant (by western standards) and the actions that led up to the disaster showed tremendous institutional incompetence that would never be allowed by a non-communist country.

You're on point with this comment. I worked with a guy from Ukraine who was a power plant engineer in Russia/Siberia before he came to the US. He told me that the Chernobyl power plant was so far behind on it's maintenance that nearly all of its primary control systems had failed years before the meltdown, and they ran it on its backup systems until they failed. The polit bureau in Moscow was calling the shots, and no amount of begging or warning from the plant managers convinced them to allow it to be shut down for repairs.

Chernobyl, Fukushima, and Three Mile Island were all bilt in the '70s, with control systems that were outdated even by the time the plants came online.

Sorry guy... I'm pro-nuke, but it has to be done carefully... the article wasn't anti-nuke...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

It wan’t anti nuclear, it just illustrates the void between informed and ignorant.

Exactly, hokie66. The article purports to be relaying the views of "experts", but if the anti-nuke "experts" are that ignorant on the subject, it's no wonder we can't make any progress.

Leaving aside there hasn't been a significant problem with any nuclear plant built since 1980, the newer generation of Thorium-based plants alleviate all of the major risks associated with nuclear power plants. The reaction is not self-sustaining, so an accidental core meltdown is virtually impossible, and even purposeful meltdown would be very difficult to accomplish. It doesn't produce material suitable for nuclear weapons, and the materials needed for a dirty bomb are completely inaccessible, due to toxicity of the molten salt (and the fact that it's hot enough melt the flesh off anyone stupid enough to go near it when the reactor is operating, and becomes a solid block of still very toxic salt when it cools).

Extreme rain is turning homes into havens for toxic mold...

"As fossil fuel pollution traps heat, flooding is intensifying and disasters are becoming more frequent and more intense. The floods are wreaking financial damages, and they’re exacerbating health hazards as flooded streets and basements foster mold and release pathogens from raw sewage. In Rust Belt cities like Detroit with combined sewer and rainwater systems, untreated sewage can back up into streets and homes when pipes become overwhelmed with stormwater."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/climate-cesspool-e...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (Dik)

Sorry guy... I'm pro-nuke, but it has to be done carefully... the article wasn't anti-nuke...

Oh, I realize that the article wasn't anti-nuke. Your quote from the article wasn't anti-nuke either. It pointed to towards certain environmental activist type views that are anti-nuke.

My rant (which is what it was) was a rant against that attitude. It's still quite prevalent amongst many of my friends on the left. They have been sold this fear of nuclear power for decades. And, climate change isn't enough of an immediate or existential threat for them to change their attitude. Which is why I like to engage people on that attitude. It's an attitude based solely off of ignorance and an irrational fear.

Quote:

They have been sold this fear of nuclear power for decades...It's an attitude based solely off of ignorance and an irrational fear.

Nailed it once again!

A summer of extremes...

"These were the words of Ursula von der Leyen, during her State of the European Union address last month. Though this is hyperbole — as nowhere in the world are we close to boiling water temperatures — the President of the European Commission’s choice of words effectively captures the urgency of a situation that goes far beyond record-breaking summer heat. This summer, Europe was devastated by wildfires, floods, and extreme weather, all of which were closely monitored by Copernicus."

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-su...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Climate rules are coming for corporate America...

"The cost of climate change is growing for companies as extreme weather disrupts manufacturing and supply chains and inflicts billions in economic losses. For the agriculture industry, the threat from rising temperatures "may be one of the greatest that we face in this lifetime," according to Corteva, an Indiana company that makes seeds and chemicals.

But Corteva — which was previously part of DowDuPont — says it has a plan. There's money to be made producing things like biofuels to power ships and airplanes with less climate pollution, and crops that are better at resisting diseases as the planet gets hotter. And — crucially — Corteva says it is curbing some of its own emissions of the greenhouse gasses that are heating the planet. If it misses deadlines it set for operating more sustainably, the company says its relationships with customers and investors could suffer.

However, that hasn't stopped Corteva from working alongside other American companies and lobbyists to limit upcoming regulations from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) that would make businesses disclose their emissions and the risks they face from climate change."

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/1205068747/climate-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

"Though this is hyperbole — as nowhere in the world are we close to boiling water temperatures — the President of the European Commission’s choice of words effectively captures the urgency of a situation "

No, that is just silly sound-biteyness.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Quote (...effectively captures the urgency of a situation.)

There may be an urgency... but no one seems to be concerned.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

No need to be.

Quote (dik)

...no one seems to be concerned.

...especially those 'in the know' who are making the most noise about (other people) cutting energy usage and emissions. That should tell you something about the reality of the situation.

EU climate rule about to hit U.S. businesses

"The U.S. has struggled to require companies to disclose how much their operations pollute the atmosphere. But a new European regulation is making many of them do it, writes Avery Ellfeldt.

Starting as soon as January, major U.S. companies that raise money on European stock exchanges will start compiling information on their carbon emissions, climate risks and strategies to counter the damage.

By 2025, when a more expansive European Union rule takes effect, an estimated 3,000 U.S. businesses will be required to provide such disclosures. The rules will cover any U.S.-based business that has an EU branch with more than 250 employees, more than $42 million in local revenue or a balance sheet larger than $21 million."

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/power-switch/...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

I wonder if that EU climate rule will discourage US businesses from conducting business in Europe...

Of course it will. But the main alternative is China, and that won't help with emissions.

Using changes in vegetation to map climate change.

"Over the last twenty years, Europe has been hit with a series of record-breaking heatwaves and droughts. The summers of 2003 and 2010 were especially bad, with 2010 breaking a five-hundred-year European temperature record. Then, just eight years later in 2018, this record was broken again. And as if that were not enough, the summer of 2023 was the hottest in modern times.

Though the longer-term effects of this year’s extreme heat and drought will not be fully understood for some time, the 2018 episode, on the other hand, has had time to settle, and we have started to witness some of the fallout. Crop yields were strongly affected, leading to increased prices and financial difficulties for farmers. The lack of precipitation in combination with extreme heat had negative consequences for river ecosystems and water availability, with some areas forced to impose water-use restrictions and reductions in inland shipping activities. Forest fires were also rampant that year, destroying large swathes of land in Sweden, Greece, and Portugal and causing loss of life, property, and natural habitats. Many wetlands dried up, and plant flowering patterns were significantly altered, affecting the timing of plant reproduction and availability for pollinators, thus significantlyimpacting sensitive fauna and flora populations.

Continental-scale droughts and heatwaves are so extensive in scope that it can be very difficult to understand the full extent of their impact. These “once-in-500-year” events are now happening multiple times per decade, a trend which is only expected to worsen in the coming decade. Because of this, researchers, policymakers, farmers, concerned citizens, as well as dozens of other stakeholder parties are desperate to understand and address this problem head on. "

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-em...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

The climate change cult is dooming themselves.. Noah's Ark is likely based on a true story of climate change. Noah saw the change and relocated his farm while the cultists perished.

https://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/feature/noahs-not-so-...

I've heard a number theories about the Great Flood, but that one's new to me, Tug. The one I find most compelling is that the firmament of the Earth written about in Genesis was a layer of ice in the upper atmosphere, which made the entire Earth a temperate climate. When it collapsed, that was the first time it rained, and it caused the Great Flood, the first rainbow, and caused the polar regions to freeze almost instantaneously (thus the mammoth found with frozen the flowers it was eating still in its mouth). I guess you can call that climate change. Outside of the Bible's explanation of God speaking to Noah, it's hard to imagine how he saw it coming in either scenario 120 years in advance.

How ‘risk tipping points’ threaten humanity’s ability to cope with climate crisis

"Humanity is moving dangerously close to irreversible tipping points that would drastically damage our ability to cope with disasters, UN researchers have warned, including the withdrawal of home insurance from flood-hit areas and the drying up of the groundwater that is vital for ensuring food supplies.

These “risk tipping points” also include the loss of the mountain glaciers that are essential for water supplies in many parts of the world and accumulating space debris knocking out satellites that provide early warnings of extreme weather.

A new report from the UN University (UNU) in Germany has set out a series of risk tipping points that are approaching, but said having foresight of these meant that it remained possible to take action to prevent them. Tipping points are triggered by small increases in their driving force but rapidly lead to large impacts."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/how-risk-tipping-p...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Something to expect in future with warming oceans... Otis teaches a terrifying lesson in rapid hurricane intensification.

"Hurricane Otis struck very near Acapulco, Mexico, on Tuesday night as a monster 165 mile-per-hour category 5 cyclone. On Monday night, about 24-hours before landfall, the National Hurricane Center (NHC) was predicting it would do so as 70 mile-per-hour tropical storm.

With the energy content (and destructive potential) of the wind increasing with the cube of the windspeed, that means that Otis reached Mexico with 13 times more destructive potential than what had been expected! Even when the hurricane warning was issued at 4 a.m. local time on Tuesday, the hurricane center was still forecasting just an ordinary category 1 hurricane to reach Mexico’s Pacific coast. For a region of Mexico that had never experienced anything stronger than a category 1, getting hit by a cat-5 with little to no warning has led to severe consequences."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/otis-teaches-a-ter...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Otis was a very small hurricane...

Yup... but the point is that the increase in intensity was very rapid... and maybe a sign of more to come.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Think of a tornado. More compact means more intense. As I said, it was a small storm. Maybe the experts should have known.

So we're supposed to trust the future storm predictions of "experts" whose recent storm predictions were wrong? I'd rather trust a tuna sandwich bought at a gas station.

I miss the days when gas station sandwiches came with mustard and mayonnaise. Another loss due to climate change I guess. Every time I bite into my dry sandwich I will be reminded of drought and climate change.

Montreal latest city to ban gas to new buildings

"Following moves by other large cities in North America, including Vancouver and New York, Montreal is adopting regulations which will prohibit devices responsible for greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions linked to heating for new small buildings, and which will require that new large buildings are decarbonized."

https://www.hpacmag.com/heating-plumbing-air-condi...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

And not one realistic plan to provide the needed, reliable electricity. What's it gonna take?

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

Canada has pretty reliable hydro, for most of the country... carbon friendly 'juice'.

"According to the International Hydropower Association, Canada is the fourth largest producer of hydroelectricity in the world in 2021 after the United States, Brazil, and China.[1] In 2019, Canada produced 632.2 TWh of electricity with 60% of energy coming from Hydroelectric and Tidal Energy Sources).[2]

Some provinces and territories, such as British Columbia, Manitoba, Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec and Yukon produce over 90% of their electricity from Hydro. "
-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

My local township is contemplating a microgrid. The problem is that 80% of homes use LPG bottles for heating, hot water, and cooking. The geniuses in state government are very keen for gas to go away. Getting rid of gas and switching to heat pumps and EVs will double the required electricity from the microgrid.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Canada is topographically gifted, so they can get power from flowing water. Most of us are not so fortunate. But we have other resources, which must be relied upon.

We'll see what next year brings...

"Two major reports published this week paint an alarming picture of this unprecedented heat: Humanity has just lived through the hottest 12-month period in at least 125,000 years, according to one, while the other declared that 2023 is “virtually certain” to be the hottest year in recorded history, after five consecutive months of record-obliterating temperatures.

“We have become all too used to climate records falling like dominoes in recent years,” David Reay, executive director of the Edinburgh Climate Change Institute at the University of Edinburgh, told CNN. “But 2023 is a whole different ball game in terms of the massive margin by which these records have been broken.”"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/climate/global-warm...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (dik)

David Reay, executive director of the Edinburgh Climate Change Institute at the University of Edinburgh

This guy's career depends on negative news. Take everything he says with a giant grain of salt.

A possible problem in the future with climate change may be the availability of fresh water...

"Ms Hunt is chief innovation officer for a Canadian start-up called Oneka Technologies. It has developed floating desalination systems that turn seawater into fresh water.

While large, shore-based desalination plants typically require vast amounts of energy to remove the salt, Oneka's small units are powered solely by the movement of the waves.

"Desalination facilities are conventionally powered by fossil fuels," says Ms Hunt. "But the world has certainly reached a pivot point. We want to move away from fossil fuel powered desalination."

More than 300 million people around the world now rely on desalinated water, according to the global trade body, the International Desalination Association. This water is supplied by more than 21,000 plants, almost twice as many as there were 10 years ago."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67237006

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

The desalination plants exist and are being powered. If they get turned off that is not going to be the fault of climate change. It will be the fault of dik inspired hysteria.

Nope, Tug... this could just be another 'green' source of 'fresh' water if it becomes necessary in future.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

The notion of powering desalination with renewables is laughable. We can live with unreliable power. We can't live with unreliable water.

Powering desalination with wave or tide powers seems to be almost as reliable as fossil fuel. The latter may become in short supply.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

The obvious way to power a desal plant is from your nukes when electrical demand is low, rather than throttling the nukes.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

The whole concept of wave generation is absurd. Waves are powered by the wind. Why would you add extra steps?

And tidal generation? Where is the potential energy? It's not from height and it's not from velocity. The turbine required would be immense. It's also not so friendly for the estuaries it would be plugging up.

The fact that anyone would suggest such preposterous ideas demonstrates their disconnect from reality.

I just checked. The total installed capacity (not output) of wave power stations globally is .... 10 MW. (as of 2015), by 2020 it was more like 20 MW less failures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wave_power_s...

If I might indulge in a lame emoticon since they seem to fashionable

More seriously I have seen a lot of money poured into wave power over the years and after some initial enthusiasm the demonstration projects sink from sight within 2 years.




Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

...a heads up.

"The effects of a rapidly warming climate are being felt in every corner of the US and will worsen over the next 10 years with continued fossil fuel use, according to a stark new report from federal agencies.

The Fifth National Climate Assessment, a congressionally mandated report due roughly every five years, warned that even though planet-warming pollution in the US is slowly decreasing, it is not happening nearly fast enough to meet the nation’s targets, nor is it in line with the UN-sanctioned goal to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius – a threshold beyond which scientists warn life on Earth will struggle to cope.

This year’s assessment reflects the reality that Americans can increasingly see and feel climate impacts in their own communities, said Katharine Hayhoe, a distinguished climate scientist at Texas Tech University and contributor to the report.

“Climate change is affecting every aspect of our lives,” Hayhoe told CNN.

Some of the report’s sweeping conclusions remain painfully familiar: No part of the US is truly safe from climate disasters; slashing fossil fuel use is critical to limit the consequences, but we’re not doing it fast enough; and every fraction of a degree of warming leads to more intense impacts.

But there are some important new additions: Scientists can now say with more confidence when the climate crisis has made rainstorms, hurricanes and wildfires stronger or more frequent, long-term drought more severe and heat more deadly."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/14/us/national-climate...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (dik)

Scientists can now say with more confidence when the climate crisis has made rainstorms, hurricanes and wildfires stronger or more frequent, long-term drought more severe and heat more deadly."

What is the purpose of a scientist if there are only certain things they "can" say?

Self-proclaimed 'scientists' can say whatever they want, but it doesn't make it true or a fact. Lots of scientists were sure that all the other planets, the sun, etc. orbited around the Earth, and that the way to cure diseases was to let the 'bad' blood out.

Btw, the heat today is far less deadly than it has been in the past.

It won't be less deadly if we stop using fossil fuels.

" 1.5 degrees Celsius – a threshold beyond which scientists warn life on Earth will struggle to cope." Our monkey ancestors were just fine in higher temperatures, and they didn't have A/C, and they had fur.

Also funnily enough, the trend of current migration is towards warmer places from colder places. So people choose warmer places.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Please, dik, from now on when you mention a scientist can you please define the word scientist because you seem to have a twisted definition. Also include credentials before job title. Job title isn't a descriptive term.

Still not much of an improvement...

"“Despite decades of warnings from the scientific community, thousands of pages of reports and dozens of climate conferences, we are still heading in the wrong direction,” WMO Secretary-General Petteri Taalas said.

This month, the UN’s annual climate summit is scheduled to start in Dubai and could include a push to phase out the use of fossil fuels before 2050. But thus far, countries that account for large shares of the world’s carbon emissions have fallen far short of the cuts needed."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/15/un-says-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

And why is this meeting being held in Dubai?

...likely political reasons. You don't think the world governments are concerned about climate change, do you?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

A few reasons:

-It is far from the attendees so the CO2 cost of attendance is very high.

-Dubai is a symbol of opulence and excess. Not conservation.

-Dubai is proof that humans can thrive in hot climates.

It's very bad optics. It's as if the attendees are more interested in the trip than the conference.

Quote:

It's as if the attendees are more interested in the trip than the conference.

Nah, that couldn't be it, could it?

It's probably just because there's enough room for them to all park their private jets, unlike some of the other exotic locations where climate conferences have been held in recent years.

How Dare You!^TM

LOL

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

They could all be held by teleconference... without all the airtravel.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

If they were serious.

It 'kinda' shows they aren't.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

They are serious. About feathering their own nests. Climate change is an excuse for making money.

hokie... I suspect the cost is going to be great.

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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Now there's a statement I think we can all agree on. Benefits (if any) very much less so:)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

Capture...

"Climate technology company Heirloom has opened the first commercial Direct Air Capture plant in the US, which will sequester atmospheric carbon for permanent storage using energy-efficient kilns.

Located in Tracy, California, the Heirloom facility will use a limestone filtration process to capture up to 1,000 tons of CO2 per year, which will be then stored permanently."

https://www.dezeen.com/2023/11/15/heirloom-opens-f...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote (Climate change is an excuse for making money.)

You mean that they are in it for profit, and not for the betterment of mankind... whodathought

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

We are about to experience the impact of one of dik's anti-CO2 actions. One of the berths we service is taking the righteous act of cutting it's CO2 emissions. In order to do so we cannot run our generators when tied to the pier. Our generators burn 1-1.5 gallons diesel fuel per hour. The result this action is that we will have to drive to another berth 15 miles away. That means an hour of transit time in each direction at around 70 gallons per hour.

They are literally asking us to burn an additional 140 gallons of diesel fuel to burn 12-18 gallons somewhere nearby in the name of climate change.

Typical bureaucratic rules. The unforeseen consequences are rarely foreseen.

Quote (We are about to experience the impact of one of dik's anti-CO2 actions.)

Not mine... but I can see a lot more of this stuff in the future... maybe even some sillier. I dunno...

What happens if they determine flying has too big a carbon footprint... or even private transportation, or private aircraft?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Quote:

What happens if they determine flying has too big a carbon footprint... or even private transportation, or private aircraft?

That's never going to happen, considering who's flying in those private jets. Sacrifices to save the planet are for the 'little people' to make.

Yet you loudly push the rhetoric that causes people support such silly decisions.

I think you are correct, Bridge...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

"The unforeseen consequences are rarely foreseen."

My state is floundering badly but "appears" to remain "blind" to consequences that were, should have been, and remain foreseeable.

The US Federal government has been legally "bound" to consider cost-benefit since 1981.
'' regulatory action shall not be undertaken unless the potential benefits to society from the regulation outweigh the potential costs to society.''

Just sayin' .

Here is a bit of a thought exercise. Exxon is in hot water for stealing climate change information by hacking.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/16/1213320496/azari-is...

Why is it so threatening for an oil company to have access to climate change data and related communications?

Exxon has not been charged with any offence. They may have used the information, but there has been no inference that they paid for it. Unlike the DNC, who paid for hacking against the Trump campaign. Exxon falls in the category of many news organizations who use information that 'falls off a truck'.

The guy was found guilty of "conspiracy to commit computer hacking, computer hacking, and aggravated identity theft". Sounds like he is a mercenary who got what he deserved.

No mention of the the pollution in the Black Sea. If ships destroyed? That's a lot of oil spilled.

https://gcaptain.com/

Alas, it doesn't matter what the pollution is, rather, who is doing it.

What do household electric heat pumps have to do with defense? Another indication that this is all political.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-invokes-war...

Whole of government approach. Constitution and other legal niceties be d*mned.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

That is the purpose of international agreements such as the Montreal Accord. It allows them to bypass our checks and balances while going straight for our checks.

The joke is on us, too. They're banning HFC refrigerants while mandating heat pumps. We're boned.

To double down, the next generation of refrigerants is flammable!

more scare tactics...

"Capping global temperature rise at two degrees Celsius over baseline is no longer seen as enough to avoid a catastrophic rise in sea levels that would decimate the earth’s coastlines and displace hundreds of millions of people, climate scientists warn.

A report released Thursday by the International Cryosphere Climate Initiative, compiled by more than 60 scientists and policy experts, is sounding the alarm on new modelling data that indicates the 2015 Paris Agreement is woefully out-of-date.

The consortium is urging world leaders to take stock of new research ahead of the United Nations’ COP28 climate conference later this month. According to the report, the only road forward is ensuring that global temperatures do not rise over 1.5C above pre-industrial levels, much lower than the two degree maximum set at the Paris Climate Accords."

https://globalnews.ca/news/10098366/sea-level-rise...

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So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

What the heck is a cryosphere and why would you take an organization that uses that label seriously?

The headline: "Earth facing dire sea level rise — up to 20m — even if climate goals met"

No need to bother I guess...

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

It's their way of saying "no refunds".

Heh :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

from wiki The cryosphere is an all-encompassing term for the portions of Earth's surface where water is in solid form, including sea ice, lake ice, river ice, snow cover, glaciers, ice caps, ice sheets, and frozen ground. Thus, there is a wide overlap with the hydrosphere.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Odd that they would prefer an icy world over a watery world. We see much less biodiversity in regions covered with ice.

Proposed high speed rail in Florida... The rest of the world is looking at 300-400 kph (200-300 mph). Electric trains may be the future of long distance travel.

"Florida's new high-speed rail linking Miami and Orlando could be blueprint for future travel in U.S.
cbs-mornings

As Thanksgiving approaches, millions of Americans are gearing up for holiday travel. AAA projects that over 55 million people will travel more than 50 miles, which would make this Thanksgiving the third-busiest on record.

This year, a significant development in travel options comes from Florida, where a new rail line connects Miami and Orlando. The service — the only privately owned, multi-city railroad in the U.S. — was launched less than two months ago, and is already profitable and seeing a rise in ridership.

Brightline, which offers the new service, first launched in 2018 with service between Miami and West Palm Beach. Its trains, which can reach speeds of 125 miles per hour, have seen a 116% increase in ridership this year. The company anticipates accommodating approximately 4.3 million passengers annually between South Florida and Orlando by 2025."



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brightline-florida-hi...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Dik, possibly you missed the "Murder Train" thread concerning the Brightline

LOL

thread815-512232: We've had murder cars, now we've got murder-trains in Florida of course

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

Nope... but if rail traffic is to ever become significant, it will have to be a lot faster than 125mph... I suspect.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Like air travel?

We have a lot of electrified rail in Queensland. Pulling coal trains, powered by coal powered power plants. Quite good synergy.

Ocean temperatures continue to increase...

"Global ocean temperatures are increasing, and sea levels are rising. According to the OSR 7, marine heatwaves—prolonged warm water events—have become more frequent and intense in the last 40 years, while marine cold spells—prolonged cold-water events—have become less frequent. The OSR 7 also reports a record-low reduction in ocean heat exchange in the Greenland–Scotland Ridge around 2018. These changes in ocean heat transport and exchange can adversely impact the ocean currents which drive climate and weather around the world. Additional information provided in the OSR 7 summary notes that Antarctic sea ice extent was the lowest on record for June 2023, showing a loss of nearly 2.20 million km2 of sea ice in comparison to the long-term average for that month (1981 to 2010), an area more than seven times the size of Poland."

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-eu...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Funny how the scare tactics are becoming a seasonal tradition among greenies. I've noticed similar articles the past few years, some of which are still accessible via google.

"Climate change could soon make these staple Thanksgiving dishes more scarce"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/climate-change-make-stap...

The other one currently making me laugh is glacier melting revealing 7000 year old artefacts. We are just coming out of the Little Ice Age, it isn't surprising. We've yet to find the coal mines from 12000 years ago that were keeping the Earth warm then.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

Changes in precipitation...

"Snowfall is declining globally as temperatures warm because of human-caused climate change, a new analysis and maps from a NOAA climate scientist show.

But less snow falling from the sky isn’t as innocuous as just having to shovel less; it threatens to reinforce warming, and disrupt food and water for billions of people.

Climate scientists say the future of snowfall is pretty clear: A warmer world driven by human pollution means precipitation is more likely to fall as rain than snow, all else being equal."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/25/weather/snowfall-te...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Yes, when we go back to the Holocene Optimum there will be less snow. But one wonders why the Holocene Optimum was warmer than today if CO2 is the thermostat.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

It gets political in Canada, too...

"Alberta Premier Danielle Smith will be using the province’s Sovereignty Act to challenge Ottawa’s requirement to achieve a net-zero electricity grid by 2035.

Smith confirmed the plan on 630 CHED’s and QR Calgary’s Your Province Your Premier on Saturday.

During the radio show, Smith said the province tried to work collaboratively with the federal government to make the province’s electricity grid net zero by 2050. However, Ottawa’s target of 2035 is “unachievable” and will make electricity unaffordable for Albertans, she said."

https://globalnews.ca/news/10115312/danielle-smith...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

Concrete in Canada...

"It should come as no surprise that the cement industry is a major contributor to CO2 emissions around the globe. The Cement Association of Canada (CAC) states that the sector is the third-largest industrial energy consumer and the second-largest industrial CO2 emitter, representing approximately seven per cent of the world’s CO2 emissions. The fact that concrete is the second- most consumed commodity around the world, trailing only behind water, amplifies its impact.

To assist the cement industry in its effort to reduce CO2 emissions, in 2022 the CAC, with assistance from Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada, launched the Roadmap to Net-Zero Carbon Concrete by 2050. The roadmap “commits the sector to achieving reductions of 15 million tonnes of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions cumulatively by 2030, followed by ongoing reductions of over 4 million tonnes annually from the production of cement and concrete in Canada.”

The CAC expects these GHG reductions to come from a combination of initiatives, including the elimination of the use of coal and petroleum coke, increased use of lower-carbon and alternative fuels, use of alternative and blended cements, improving thermal efficiency, carbon capture investment, the use of clean energy, and advocating for updated codes, standards, specifications and procurement policies.

“Concrete Zero in Canada includes a wide array of different technologies that we can apply today, which, in many cases, are bolt-on technologies that can be implemented right now, with proven effectiveness. In other instances, they’re almost ready for prime time. They’re just in the final stages of demonstration and optimization. And in other cases, it’s really a lot of early-stage research that is in place,” says Robert Cumming, head of sustainability and public affairs for Lafarge Canada (East)."

https://www.on-sitemag.com/features/concrete-gains...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik