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Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII
23

Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Summer vacations have been 'messed up' a tad... airlines and private jets could be affected in the long term... This also raised the question about maintaining infrastructure... will there come a time when it might become a matter of throwing good money after bad? The money might be better spent looking after the effects of AGW... ponder

"From the litany of bad headlines surrounding the world of travel, you could be forgiven thinking it’s been the summer from hell for vacationers.

Environmental disasters, aviation industry mishaps and strikes, dirty beaches, soaring temperatures, deluges, price hikes and overcrowding all seem to have conspired to ruin getaways for hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people this year.

For the most part, the inconvenience of travelers has been nothing compared to the tragic impact some of these situations have had on communities around the world.

But, for many people, a summer break is a much-needed annual highlight that offers respite from the stresses not just of everyday life, but other often extreme hardships.

Of course, huge numbers of lucky people enjoyed trouble-free vacations around the world. For every angry thread of tweets from airport departure lounges, there were likely many more smiling poolside selfies.

It’s the bad news that travels furthest. Here’s a roundup of some of the adversity that vacationers have faced over the past few months:"

https://www.cnn.com/travel/2023-summer-from-hell

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Electric roads...

"Sweden is exploring the possibility electric roads which charge electric vehicles as they drive. Adrienne Murray paid a visit to a demonstration project in the south of the country where a new type of technology is being put through its paces."

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gcbkjs/sweden-s-i...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Would electromagnetic charging create resistance to motion on the car?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
From the clip, it's actually by contact and shuts off the juice when the vehicle goes over it.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Oh my. It's dumber than I thought. Or, is it? Create an idea so stupid it has to fail, name it in such a way as to create a false association with a other brand, scam some investors and governments while you're at it, and voila... "Elonroad".

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I have no idea... but there will likely be a couple of 'oops' in the future when it comes to addressing AGW.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Do they not know what happens to 650 VDC contacts when they get wet? Are the engineers really that dumb or are they taking advantage of your fear?

This works for rail, most of the time, because the contacts are elevated and have protection from the weather.

Do they think people are going to tolerate major roadways being shut down for regular rail replacement?

How long is each section going to be? The maximum length for 3rd rails appears to be about 1 mile. Can a car accept a reasonable amount of charge within 1 minute?

It really is a stupid idea.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
We'll have to find out... it's experimental at this point.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
On a positive side, Sweden's power is mostly hydro and nuclear...

"Majority of electricity production in Sweden relies on hydro power and nuclear power. In 2008 the consumption of electricity in Sweden was 16018 kWh per capita, compared to EU average 7409 kWh per capita.[1] Sweden has a national grid, which is part of the Synchronous grid of Northern Europe. A specialty of the Nordic energy market is the existence of so-called electricity price areas, which complicate the wholesale Nordic energy market."

A great place for electric vehicles...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

It’s the bad news that travels furthest. Here’s a roundup of some of the adversity that vacationers have faced over the past few months:"

What's not mentioned is that this was THE summer of travel for many places. Huge boon to the economies of those countries seeing lots of visitors. I think just as much of the travel issues can be blamed on this as can be blamed on "climate change".

Why were so many people traveling and traveling longer distances? Well, because people basically didn't travel in 2020 or 2021 due to the pandemic. Then, for 2022, people pretty much just traveled short distances (visiting family they hadn't seen in a couple of years and such). But, it was still difficult to travel internationally. There was something of a backlog for getting passports and visa's processed. Plus, you still had to navigate various protocols depending on where you went. What kind of proof of vaccination did you have to show? Were you required to wear masks in airports, on planes, at hotels, in museums or cathedrals?

But, this summer was finally a return to normalcy and A LOT of people took advantage of it. And, the airports, cruises, hotels, tourist attractions and such had to accommodate not just the regular numbers, but a big increase in tourism.

Personally, I've done a lot more traveling this summer than normal. My family went to Europe for a two week vacation. I've traveled to Northern California (nieces baby shower) and Oregon (dropping my daughter off to college). The only issues I've experienced were the following:

a) VERY hot weather in Rome (104 degrees).
b) Uncomfortably hot weather in Florence (mid to high 90s). But, that's mostly based on the fact that I'm the fattest and most out of shape I've ever been in my life. sad
c) Brutally long customs line when we got back to the USA.

Note: My my wife caught covid in the customs line at the end of our trip and gave it to the whole family within the next week or so. She'd been double vaccinated and double boosted (she a nurse who works in a hospital). No real problems from Covid. Though my lungs may still be recovering as I can't seem to get rid of this occasional cough. Maybe it's just allergies, but it feels worse than that.


RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I suspect there will be a lot more of this in the future... This approach will likely slow any progress in reversing the effects of AGW.

"Rishi Sunak is considering weakening some of the government's key green commitments in a major policy shift.

It could include delaying a ban on the sales of new petrol and diesel cars and phasing out gas boilers, multiple sources have told the BBC.

The PM is preparing to set out the changes in a speech in the coming days.

Responding to the reported plans, he said the government was committed to reaching net zero carbon emissions by 2050 but in a "more proportionate way".

The aim of net zero is for the UK to take out of the atmosphere as many greenhouse gas emissions - such as carbon dioxide - as it puts in.

The prime minister said: "For too many years politicians in governments of all stripes have not been honest about costs and trade-offs. Instead they have taken the easy way out, saying we can have it all.

"This realism doesn't mean losing our ambition or abandoning our commitments. Far from it."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-66857551

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Another take... see attached.

Really? You're reduced to posting a year-old 'we're running out of coal, gas, and oil' meme? Of course, you can find stories just like it going back at least 50 years, and the known fossil fuel reserves have continued to grow over that time.

Anyway, we will never actually run out of fossil fuels. Eventually, the cost of extraction may exceed the cost of other sources of energy. Consumption will (naturally) decline, as use of other energy sources gradually increases. That's if we let the market take its natural course. If we artificially push fossil fuels out of the market, we will create economic hardship and suffering for millions and billions of people unnecessarily. That's the one part of the picture the article you linked to got right.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Make that 51-67 years. The first time I came across Peak Oil was a 1972 National Geographic, on a pile of old magazines in a climbing hut in New Zealand. Hubbert's original prediction was published in 1956 and said that global production would peak in about 2006. Predicting the future is hard, as Yogi Berra said. Of course the entire climate panic industry is littered with failed predictions, this one is pretty harmless.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (BridgeSmith)

Really? You're reduced to posting a year-old 'we're running out of coal, gas, and oil' meme? Of course, you can find stories just like it going back at least 50 years, and the known fossil fuel reserves have continued to grow over that time.

Anyway, we will never actually run out of fossil fuels. Eventually, the cost of extraction may exceed the cost of other sources of energy. Consumption will (naturally) decline, as use of other energy sources gradually increases. That's if we let the market take its natural course. If we artificially push fossil fuels out of the market, we will create economic hardship and suffering for millions and billions of people unnecessarily. That's the one part of the picture the article you linked to got right.

My perspective on this:
1) Yes, these stories have been written continuously for +50 years. They were alarmist drivel then for certain.
2) I'm not convinced that they're quite as alarmist now. My perspective is that the reason why we have more known fossil fuel reserves now is because we have advanced our technology for extraction so much since then. Without that, our reserves would NOT be larger.
3) Like you say, at some point the cost of extraction will make these types of energy less used in comparison to other energy sources. However, that will likely be related to a large increase in energy costs.... at least in the short term.
4) Our "transition" from fossil fuels to alternative energy sources (nuclear, solar, wind, hydro, geothermal) is an excellent way to kill two birds with one stone. Reduce our greenhouse gas emissions AND prepare for a day when fossil fuels are less abundant / affordable.
5) The key to me (as it always has been) is how to do this with the least amount of economic and political pain. The left believes we need to go Carbon Neutral NOW, which is economic suicide. The politicians want to "virtue signal" by throwing money at the least efficient and scalable methods of electricity production. They are afraid of clean and safe nuclear solely because of the politics, not the science or reality. The environmentalist also dislike nuclear.... because it's not 'natural' or something. Even though it is safe, clean, and carbon free.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

#5 all the way...

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

#5 all the way...

I agree! Even modern Uranium-fired nuclear power plants are very safe, and Thorium-fired plants are even safer, with Thorium molten salt reactors being the safest because in addition to being immune to meltdowns, it's also impossible to steal the materials to make weapons.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
#5... if it can be done in time...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
A step in the right direction:

"The Stack in Vancouver set a milestone in Canada’s real estate, by being the first commercial high-rise office tower to achieve the Canada Green Building Council’s (CAGBC’s) Zero Carbon Building – Design standard certification.

Co-owned by Oxford Properties Group Inc. (Oxford) and CPP Investments, The Stack, designed by renowned architect James K.M. Cheng in collaboration with Adamson Associates Architects, is a 37-storey, AAA-class office tower located at 1133 Melville Street in downtown Vancouver. It features a unique design resembling boxes stacked on each other.

The Stack’s zero carbon status contributes significantly to Vancouver and British Columbia’s 2030 zero-carbon goals. Innovative features, including low carbon building systems and a high-performance triple-pane glazing system, minimize carbon emissions and energy intensity. Smart building technology optimizes energy management, while a rooftop photovoltaic (PV) solar panel array generates 26,000kWh of energy annually."

https://www.constructioncanada.net/vancouvers-tall...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

while a rooftop photovoltaic (PV) solar panel array generates 26,000kWh of energy annually."

That's almost enough to power my house, but likely not a significant percentage for a 37 storey office building.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

You use too much power. That would power my house about 4 times, but still puny in comparison to the high rise office building.

Edit: My usage will be unrealistic to many here, as we don't need to heat, and have only a few days each year when we need AC for a few hours.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
In addition to carbon reduction, there will likely be a reduction in power usage to go with it. Just how much, it's a matter of waiting.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Turdeau on the carpet again...

"Speaking at the Climate Ambition Summit in New York City on Wednesday, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was grilled for Canada’s massive oil and gas expansion at a time when climate science demands fossil fuels be rapidly phased out.

United Nations Under-Secretary-General Melissa Fleming invited Trudeau to speak but before he did, she noted Canada was one of the largest expanders of fossil fuels last year and asked what Canada is doing to align with the Acceleration Agenda — a series of steps rich countries should take, which the UN says can rescue the Paris Agreement from failing like so many climate accords of the past.

The Acceleration Agenda calls for rich countries to set net-zero by 2040 targets, phase out coal power by 2030, end fossil fuel subsidies, set ambitious renewable energy targets, implement fair, equitable and just energy transitions, and for new standards of climate justice to guide decision-making."

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2023/09/21/news/t...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I hope he told them to pound sand.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

You're reduced to posting a year-old 'we're running out of coal, gas, and oil' meme? Of course, you can find stories just like it going back at least 50 years

The doom and gloom goes back at least 150 years to the mid-1800s when academics were screeching that England would run out of coal and wood by the late-1800s, which were their two major forms of energy at the time.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

The Acceleration Agenda calls for rich countries to set net-zero by 2040 targets, phase out coal power by 2030, end fossil fuel subsidies, set ambitious renewable energy targets, implement fair, equitable and just energy transitions, and for new standards of climate justice to guide decision-making."

So, that means China needs to clean up their act, and the US (which is $33 trillion in debt) should be exempt, right?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Both bad, and not doing enough...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I think the US is doing really well at keeping actual pollution low. Our water and air are very clean. Our CO2 output/energy production ratio is far better, too, not that I think we should be concerned over CO2 output, anyway.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
You're still on the +ve side and at the top... that has to stop.

The US is at the top for reduction, thought... China, Russia, and India are still increasing...



and another chart...



-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Per capita is bs, dik.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Not at all... it adjusts for the fact that China and India have 5x the population of the US...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
We're in totally new territory...

"Here are four climate records broken so far this summer - the hottest day on record, the hottest June on record globally, extreme marine heatwaves, record-low Antarctic sea-ice "

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

You're still on the +ve side and at the top... that has to stop.

No it doesn't.

CO2 is plant food, not pollution.

Quote (dik)

and another chart...

A totally useless one, without a legend to inform the reader of what's being charted.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (No it doesn't.)


Keep up the good work, then... we'll have to wait and see where that takes us...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It appears that California is trying to do something about it.

"California Gov. Gavin Newsom drew loud cheers and applause on Wednesday when he spoke at the UN’s Climate Ambition Summit in New York, after pointedly calling the climate crisis “a fossil fuel crisis.”

He told the room full of global leaders, climate advocates and non-governmental organizations the world needs to phase out oil, gas and coal and castigated the fossil fuel industry for “deceit and denial.” He was also the lone US official who spoke at the UN secretary general’s hand-picked summit, though climate envoy John Kerry also attended.

It was an overwhelming response from an audience of people who, while optimistic about humanity’s ability to solve the climate crisis, are cynically used to hearing leaders give the issue watered-down lip service."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/24/us/california-clima...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Does it matter that he drew applause at an event with a restricted guest list? What a joke of an article.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

There's real irony in a state-level politician from one of our most-polluted states who has defended hiring environmental "experts" with fake degrees, pointing fingers about an "environmental crisis" to an international audience. Terrible ethics and sadly, a large portion of the.media paints him as a hero.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

WSJ just published an article about fake peer-reviewed studies. They highlighted some soft targets in the story. I wonder how many related to climate change?

The Band of Debunkers Busting Bad Scientists - WSJ https://www.wsj.com/science/data-colada-debunk-sta...

5500 retractions in 2022 vs. 150ish in 2002. The article paywalled itself so I can't confirm exact numbers.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
If there's a buck to be made... beware of the snakeoil salesmen... it seems to be the way these days...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Now apply this to climate change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

So you're just doing this for the money, dik?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
nope...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

If there's a buck to be made... beware of the snakeoil salesmen... it seems to be the way these days...

Yup, which is why I don't trust AOC, Bernie, Greta, Gore and any of the other climate alarmists. They're all finding a way to profit off this. Either with direct income (Gore, AOC), fundraising fame, or consolidation of power into the hands of the government. At best, this is what they're after. Power, money, fame. At worst, they are just the type of "useful fools" that communists love in their desire to seek more and more oppressive power.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
or any of the others... including our own Turdeau...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
There could be a down side...

"It has been reported that temperatures on Earth could skyrocket to around 70C (185F) which would ultimately transform the planet from what we know it to be like now, into a ‘hostile environment devoid of food and water’, the researcher who conducted this study has warned everyone.

If this study is to come true, then it would mean Earth’s temperature would simply become too hot for mammals to live and would no longer be able to survive as we/they all do now, but that is not all that would change."

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/09/26/supercompute...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

It has been reported that temperatures on Earth could skyrocket to around 70C

This is such a baseless claim that they can't even cite an expert, paper or such. Just "it has been reported". The study" cited in this article also suggests that increased volcanic activity will results in a "super continent". That the sun would "become hotter" (whatever that means). This may be the single dumbest and poorly written piece of alarmist drivel that has ever been written.

It has also been reported that the Y2k would result in a massive crises and that the world would fall into chaos. It has also been reported that the world would end in 2012 based on some dumb interpretation of the Mayan calendar.

Dik - Seriously, are you trolling us with this drivel? You can't possibly have read that article and thought that there was any genuine merit to it. Right?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (The Article)

This supercomputer has predicted that the sun will drastically become brighter due to tectonic movements...

Hmmm, wouldn't a thought it possible.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Not at all... just pointing out what a possible outcome is... The systems have so much energy, I have no idea of where we will end up since we are doing very little to mitigate things... It's the most extreme 'model' I've encountered to date.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (Hmmm, wouldn't a thought it possible.)


I thought it was pretty far fetched... but, don't know enough to refute it. I can see with the polar caps melting there being a shift in the mass distribution of the earth. I can see this influencing tectonic plate related stuff with possible seismic implications... I don't think it will happen, but can see the mechanisms for it to happen, if it did occur.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

dik, no need, it refutes itself :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I'd like to think that...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Rather than waste everybody's time perhaps a search for the actual paper would have been useful

Here is its abstract

A new study shows unprecedented heat is likely to lead to the next mass extinction, akin to when the dinosaurs died out, eliminating nearly all mammals in some 250 million years time.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/2309...

For context 250 million years ago there weren't even dinosaurs (but there were crocodiles)

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (Greg Locock)

Rather than waste everybody's time perhaps a search for the actual paper would have been useful

Dik -

I have to say I agree with Greg here. I think that "article" (and I use that term generously) was a waste of everybody's time. It should have been self evident that it was meaningless drivel.

I kindly suggest that you exercise a little better judgment when sharing links with this group. It's not that I don't tolerate the occasional garbage post. Rather, it's that such links really tarnish your otherwise good name.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It was just an extreme possibility, IMHO... I don't know where this will end up.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

It was just an extreme possibility, IMHO... I don't know where this will end up.

There are literally a nearly infinite number of ridiculously extreme possibilities. If you're going to start posting all of them, this will become a very long and useless thread. I suggest you stick to posting scenarios that have evidence, or at least sound scientific and logical backing, to support their conclusions. Another good criteria might be that the predictions are limited to the next hundred years or less, considering the 'experts' are still failing to predict the weather accurately a week in advance.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
@Bridge... I noted in an earlier post that with climate change things could get really ugly. This is just a 'heads up' or caution about how ugly things could get. In the disasters forum, there is talk about a Lybian earthen dam failure with thousands of lives lost. It's in thread:

thread815-511922: Dam Failures in Derna, Libya

Rainfall was likely between 10 and 30 times what was normal. This is nowhere near how ugly things can get... In addition, if things get ugly, there can be a whole pile of hurt caused by geopolitical issues...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
There was an earlier note about taking countries to court over climate change. This has been extended..

""What I felt was fear," says Claudia Duarte Agostinho as she remembers the extreme heatwave and fires that ripped through Portugal in 2017 and killed more than 100 people. "The wildfires made me really anxious about what sort of future I would have."

Claudia, 24, her brother Martim, 20, and her sister Mariana, 11, are among six young Portuguese people who have filed a lawsuit against 32 governments, including all EU member states, the UK, Norway, Russia, Switzerland and Turkey.

They accuse the countries of insufficient action over climate change and failing to reduce their greenhouse gas emissions enough to hit the Paris Agreement target of limiting global warming to 1.5C.

The case is the first of its kind to be filed at the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) in Strasbourg. If it is successful, it could have legally-binding consequences for the governments involved. The first hearing in the case is being held on Wednesday.

Aged from 11 to 24, the six claimants argue that the forest fires that have occurred in Portugal each year since 2017 are a direct result of global warming.

They claim that their fundamental human rights - including the right to life, privacy, family life and to be free from discrimination - are being violated due to governments' reluctance to fight climate change."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66923590

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Yeah, so the same governments that cannot adequately provide for their citizens most basic needs thru well known means are somehow supposed to adjust the weather thru completely unproven means.

These lawsuits are just grift on a large scale. Who ought to be sued is the climate change industrial complex that is terrifying these kids. Its pure evil.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I remember when the European human rights courts were trying Nazi war criminals. I guess they ran out... Oh wait, one just turned up in Canada.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
ya... Turdeau's friend...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

2

Quote:

There are literally an infinite number of ridiculously extreme possibilities. If you're going to start posting all of them, this will become a very long and useless thread.

Will become...future tense?

Quote:

thread1618-496010: Things are Starting to Warm Up.: Things are Starting to Warm Up.
thread1618-496614: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part II
thread1618-497017: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part III: Things are Starting to Warm Up Part III
thread1618-497239: Things are Starting to Warm/Heat Up Part IV: Things are Starting to Warm/Heat Up Part IV
thread1618-497988: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part V
thread1618-498967: Things are Starting to Heat Up Part VI: Things are Starting to Heat Up Part VI
thread1618-501135: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VII: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VII
thread1618-504850: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part VIII
thread1618-506948: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part IX: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part IX
thread1618-507973: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X
thread1618-510266: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XI: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XI

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I don't like the term infinite... an anecdote from about 30 years back. My wife and I were shopping for a new stove. We went into the Sears in Pickering Village, Ontario to look at stoves... a salesman 'pounced on us' and started telling us about the stoves. He noted that one of the stoves we were looking at had infinite temperature control. I informed him that if we were to live forever, we would never be able to appreciate that feature. It went right over his head... pipe

Even the geologic time scale, is finite...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII


Meanwhile back on UHI

Roy Spencer has a look at UHI and how it (a) increases the average temperature trend for the USA, and (b) results in scary headlines for dik to post about temperatures in cities in summer.

https://www.drroyspencer.com/2023/09/summer-warmin...

The thing is, UHI is real, and it does result in higher temperatures. But it is not CO2 related. So using UHI affected temperature trends to drive the CO2 narrative is misleading at best.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Infinite goes both ways. Things can be infinitely small as well. From a controls perspective infinite refers to an analog system and finite refers to digital. A potentiometer has an infinite number of positions it can park on while a switch has limited steps.

With that said, I don't think that infinite temperature control is much of a benefit for a stove. That would typically imply some type of capillary tube type heat control which is about as crude as it gets. Then again, there are a lot of stoves with Robertshaw "infinite" controls still running out there.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

I don't like the term infinite.

Ok, I changed it to "nearly infinite". Now can we address the absurd fearmongering drivel you posted?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Fixed it for you.

Quote:

Who ought to be sued is the climate change industrial complex that is terrifying these kids and dik. Its pure evil.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Heh :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Some communities rely on ice melt for their water supply...

"Switzerland's glaciers have lost a further 4% of their volume this year - the second biggest loss ever - after last year's record melt of 6%.

The statistics come in the annual report of the Swiss Glacier Monitoring Network (Glamos), whose team of researchers have been monitoring 176 of Switzerland's 1,400 glaciers for years.

They warn it may now be too late to save many of the alpine ice fields, even if climate targets are met.

"It's terrible," said the Glamos chief.

In just two years, Switzerland's glaciers have lost 10% of their total volume - as much as they lost in the three decades between 1960 and 1990.

Glaciologists measuring the ice take no comfort in the fact that this year's melt is slightly smaller than last year's record.

"It was still the second most negative year since measurements started," Matthias Huss, the head of Glamos, told the BBC. "It's terrible to see that this extreme of last year is just repeating."

The researchers say the loss is due to consecutive very warm summers, and last winter's very low snowfall. If these weather patterns continue, they say, the thaw will only accelerate.

Some of Switzerland's smaller glaciers have already disappeared."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-66950328

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Maybe things will cool off in October...

"The world's September temperatures were the warmest on record, breaking the previous high by a huge margin, according to the EU climate service.

Last month was 0.93C warmer than the average September temperature between 1991-2020, and 0.5C hotter than the previous record set in 2020.

Ongoing emissions of warming gases in addition to the El Niño weather event are driving the heat, experts believe.

Some scientists said they were shocked by the scale of the increase.

They say 2023 is now "on track" to be the warmest on record."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67017...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

October is our summer in the SF Bay Area.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I trust you had a nice warm summer... one of the warmest on record, it would seem.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Negative, it's been a very cool and wet year.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
overall, according to the data, it was warmer everywhere else... and if you were cool, other places were much warmer to adjust the data average...

and from Copernicus...

"September was yet another blistering hot month around the world and the fourth month in a row that was its hottest on record, a new report shows."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/sep...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

" adjust the data"? Is that some type of Freudian slip?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Not at all... if the data says the average temperature is 'such and such' and your weather has been cooler, then it means that other places have been more hot... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

And that's the weather from Lake Woeisus, where all the temperatures are above average:)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
'...and the heat goes on, yes, the heat goes on' with apologies to Sonny and Cher...

"The first time this happened in the modern era was for a few days in December 2015, when politicians were signing the deal on the 1.5C threshold.

Since then the limit has been repeatedly broken, typically only for short periods.

In 2016, influenced by a strong El Niño event - a natural climate shift that tends to increase global temperatures - the world saw around 75 days that went above that mark.

But BBC analysis of data from the Copernicus Climate Change Service shows that, up to 2 October, around 86 days in 2023 have been over 1.5C warmer than the pre-industrial average. That beats the 2016 record well before the end of the year.

There is some uncertainty in the exact number of days that have breached the 1.5C threshold, because the numbers reflect a global average which can come with small data discrepancies. But the margin by which 2023 has already passed 2016 figures gives confidence the record has already been broken.

"The fact that we are reaching this 1.5C anomaly daily, and for a longer number of days, is concerning," said Dr Lazenby."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66857...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

When you say pre-industrisal that certainly can't include all time prior to the industrial revolution? What is the earliest time you would like to limit pre-industrial to?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The late 1800s... but it's not an issue to quibble about. This detracts from a very serious problem.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

It's a serious issue to quibble about. There were certainly times of higher temperature pre-1800's. It's important you properly describe your interval and why you chose to ignore earlier data.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

it's been a very cool and wet year.

Same in the midwest. Here in Detroit we only had a few odd days in the low-90F's and none 100F+ this year. My neighbor succeeded again this year but had to work really hard to kill his lawn.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Nuclear power...

"Within the large community of scientists who share deep concern over climate change and accept the urgent need to greatly reduce carbon emissions, there is a sharp divide over the future role of nuclear power in the global energy mix. Among these scientists, arguments for nuclear power’s necessity, desirability, dangers, and impracticality abound.

The case for nuclear power as a necessary component of the fight against climate change typically assumes that sun, wind, and increased efficiency cannot meet future energy needs, particularly baseload demand. Those making the case for the desirability of nuclear power emphasize the relatively small amount of land needed to obtain nuclear fuel and site reactors, and the near absence of the pollutants associated with fossil fuel burning during operation.

Those warning of unacceptable dangers associated with nuclear power generation point to accidents at Fukushima and Chernobyl, to increasing threat of nuclear war among nations if more and more nations have the capability to produce weapons-grade isotopes, to stages in the fuel cycle that could be vulnerable to diversion of radioactive material by terrorists, and to potential leakage from spent fuel storage sites. Those arguing that increased use of nuclear power is impractical mainly emphasize its relatively high cost, its lengthy deployment time, and the absence of widespread public acceptance."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/nuclear-power-why-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

Those warning of unacceptable dangers associated with nuclear power generation point to accidents at Fukushima and Chernobyl

These are both red herrings. What was the damage from Fukushima? Something close to 20,000 deaths from the earthquake and ensuing tidal wave. There was release of radiation, but the amount that the general public could have seen from this was negligible. And, there has not been one recorded death or even acute illness among workers at the site as a result of radiation exposure.

Chernobyl was absolutely awful. This is undeniable. But, this was a poorly built plant (by western standards) and the actions that led up to the disaster showed tremendous institutional incompetence that would never be allowed by a non-communist country. Even so, the total number of deaths is now at 45. Two from debris, 28 by acute radiation sickness and 15 from thyroid cancer (which can easily be directly attributed to radiation exposure). That is probably a smaller number because there is likely an increased cancer mortality rate amongst those exposed, but it's difficult to say exactly how much can be attributed to the incident.

My belief is that no member of the general public died as a result of either incident.

Now, compare the total number of workers deaths from those incidents (45-ish) with the amount of injuries that you get from other sources of power:
  • Oil rigs in the ocean. The estimate for number of deaths per year is 108.... And, that's EVERY YEAR.
  • At oil refineries, the statistics are harder to come by. But, the site I found tracked 137 deaths in the US over a 20 year period.
  • The worldwide estimate for number of deaths from the solar industry is 100. But, in the US there were 10 deaths from the installation of rooftop solar panels in 2020. My guess is (due to the pandemic) this was a down year for the number of deaths because less work was occurring.
Looking at it this way, nuclear is far and away the safest means of energy production we have. It's just that a lot of people (on the left and right) have an "ick" factor related to nuclear power. Maybe it's related to it being 'unnatural'. Maybe it's because of the media portrayal. Maybe we view these power plant workers based on the way Homer Simpson is portrayed on that sitcom.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

Chernobyl was absolutely awful. This is undeniable. But, this was a poorly built plant (by western standards) and the actions that led up to the disaster showed tremendous institutional incompetence that would never be allowed by a non-communist country.

You're on point with this comment. I worked with a guy from Ukraine who was a power plant engineer in Russia/Siberia before he came to the US. He told me that the Chernobyl power plant was so far behind on it's maintenance that nearly all of its primary control systems had failed years before the meltdown, and they ran it on its backup systems until they failed. The polit bureau in Moscow was calling the shots, and no amount of begging or warning from the plant managers convinced them to allow it to be shut down for repairs.

Chernobyl, Fukushima, and Three Mile Island were all bilt in the '70s, with control systems that were outdated even by the time the plants came online.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Sorry guy... I'm pro-nuke, but it has to be done carefully... the article wasn't anti-nuke...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

It wan’t anti nuclear, it just illustrates the void between informed and ignorant.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Exactly, hokie66. The article purports to be relaying the views of "experts", but if the anti-nuke "experts" are that ignorant on the subject, it's no wonder we can't make any progress.

Leaving aside there hasn't been a significant problem with any nuclear plant built since 1980, the newer generation of Thorium-based plants alleviate all of the major risks associated with nuclear power plants. The reaction is not self-sustaining, so an accidental core meltdown is virtually impossible, and even purposeful meltdown would be very difficult to accomplish. It doesn't produce material suitable for nuclear weapons, and the materials needed for a dirty bomb are completely inaccessible, due to toxicity of the molten salt (and the fact that it's hot enough melt the flesh off anyone stupid enough to go near it when the reactor is operating, and becomes a solid block of still very toxic salt when it cools).

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Extreme rain is turning homes into havens for toxic mold...

"As fossil fuel pollution traps heat, flooding is intensifying and disasters are becoming more frequent and more intense. The floods are wreaking financial damages, and they’re exacerbating health hazards as flooded streets and basements foster mold and release pathogens from raw sewage. In Rust Belt cities like Detroit with combined sewer and rainwater systems, untreated sewage can back up into streets and homes when pipes become overwhelmed with stormwater."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/climate-cesspool-e...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (Dik)

Sorry guy... I'm pro-nuke, but it has to be done carefully... the article wasn't anti-nuke...

Oh, I realize that the article wasn't anti-nuke. Your quote from the article wasn't anti-nuke either. It pointed to towards certain environmental activist type views that are anti-nuke.

My rant (which is what it was) was a rant against that attitude. It's still quite prevalent amongst many of my friends on the left. They have been sold this fear of nuclear power for decades. And, climate change isn't enough of an immediate or existential threat for them to change their attitude. Which is why I like to engage people on that attitude. It's an attitude based solely off of ignorance and an irrational fear.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

They have been sold this fear of nuclear power for decades...It's an attitude based solely off of ignorance and an irrational fear.

Nailed it once again!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
A summer of extremes...

"These were the words of Ursula von der Leyen, during her State of the European Union address last month. Though this is hyperbole — as nowhere in the world are we close to boiling water temperatures — the President of the European Commission’s choice of words effectively captures the urgency of a situation that goes far beyond record-breaking summer heat. This summer, Europe was devastated by wildfires, floods, and extreme weather, all of which were closely monitored by Copernicus."

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-su...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Climate rules are coming for corporate America...

"The cost of climate change is growing for companies as extreme weather disrupts manufacturing and supply chains and inflicts billions in economic losses. For the agriculture industry, the threat from rising temperatures "may be one of the greatest that we face in this lifetime," according to Corteva, an Indiana company that makes seeds and chemicals.

But Corteva — which was previously part of DowDuPont — says it has a plan. There's money to be made producing things like biofuels to power ships and airplanes with less climate pollution, and crops that are better at resisting diseases as the planet gets hotter. And — crucially — Corteva says it is curbing some of its own emissions of the greenhouse gasses that are heating the planet. If it misses deadlines it set for operating more sustainably, the company says its relationships with customers and investors could suffer.

However, that hasn't stopped Corteva from working alongside other American companies and lobbyists to limit upcoming regulations from the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) that would make businesses disclose their emissions and the risks they face from climate change."

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/1205068747/climate-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

"Though this is hyperbole — as nowhere in the world are we close to boiling water temperatures — the President of the European Commission’s choice of words effectively captures the urgency of a situation "

No, that is just silly sound-biteyness.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (...effectively captures the urgency of a situation.)


There may be an urgency... but no one seems to be concerned.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

No need to be.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

...no one seems to be concerned.

...especially those 'in the know' who are making the most noise about (other people) cutting energy usage and emissions. That should tell you something about the reality of the situation.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
EU climate rule about to hit U.S. businesses

"The U.S. has struggled to require companies to disclose how much their operations pollute the atmosphere. But a new European regulation is making many of them do it, writes Avery Ellfeldt.

Starting as soon as January, major U.S. companies that raise money on European stock exchanges will start compiling information on their carbon emissions, climate risks and strategies to counter the damage.

By 2025, when a more expansive European Union rule takes effect, an estimated 3,000 U.S. businesses will be required to provide such disclosures. The rules will cover any U.S.-based business that has an EU branch with more than 250 employees, more than $42 million in local revenue or a balance sheet larger than $21 million."

https://www.politico.com/newsletters/power-switch/...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I wonder if that EU climate rule will discourage US businesses from conducting business in Europe...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Of course it will. But the main alternative is China, and that won't help with emissions.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Using changes in vegetation to map climate change.

"Over the last twenty years, Europe has been hit with a series of record-breaking heatwaves and droughts. The summers of 2003 and 2010 were especially bad, with 2010 breaking a five-hundred-year European temperature record. Then, just eight years later in 2018, this record was broken again. And as if that were not enough, the summer of 2023 was the hottest in modern times.

Though the longer-term effects of this year’s extreme heat and drought will not be fully understood for some time, the 2018 episode, on the other hand, has had time to settle, and we have started to witness some of the fallout. Crop yields were strongly affected, leading to increased prices and financial difficulties for farmers. The lack of precipitation in combination with extreme heat had negative consequences for river ecosystems and water availability, with some areas forced to impose water-use restrictions and reductions in inland shipping activities. Forest fires were also rampant that year, destroying large swathes of land in Sweden, Greece, and Portugal and causing loss of life, property, and natural habitats. Many wetlands dried up, and plant flowering patterns were significantly altered, affecting the timing of plant reproduction and availability for pollinators, thus significantlyimpacting sensitive fauna and flora populations.

Continental-scale droughts and heatwaves are so extensive in scope that it can be very difficult to understand the full extent of their impact. These “once-in-500-year” events are now happening multiple times per decade, a trend which is only expected to worsen in the coming decade. Because of this, researchers, policymakers, farmers, concerned citizens, as well as dozens of other stakeholder parties are desperate to understand and address this problem head on. "

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-em...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The climate change cult is dooming themselves.. Noah's Ark is likely based on a true story of climate change. Noah saw the change and relocated his farm while the cultists perished.

https://www.whoi.edu/oceanus/feature/noahs-not-so-...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I've heard a number theories about the Great Flood, but that one's new to me, Tug. The one I find most compelling is that the firmament of the Earth written about in Genesis was a layer of ice in the upper atmosphere, which made the entire Earth a temperate climate. When it collapsed, that was the first time it rained, and it caused the Great Flood, the first rainbow, and caused the polar regions to freeze almost instantaneously (thus the mammoth found with frozen the flowers it was eating still in its mouth). I guess you can call that climate change. Outside of the Bible's explanation of God speaking to Noah, it's hard to imagine how he saw it coming in either scenario 120 years in advance.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
How ‘risk tipping points’ threaten humanity’s ability to cope with climate crisis

"Humanity is moving dangerously close to irreversible tipping points that would drastically damage our ability to cope with disasters, UN researchers have warned, including the withdrawal of home insurance from flood-hit areas and the drying up of the groundwater that is vital for ensuring food supplies.

These “risk tipping points” also include the loss of the mountain glaciers that are essential for water supplies in many parts of the world and accumulating space debris knocking out satellites that provide early warnings of extreme weather.

A new report from the UN University (UNU) in Germany has set out a series of risk tipping points that are approaching, but said having foresight of these meant that it remained possible to take action to prevent them. Tipping points are triggered by small increases in their driving force but rapidly lead to large impacts."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/how-risk-tipping-p...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Something to expect in future with warming oceans... Otis teaches a terrifying lesson in rapid hurricane intensification.

"Hurricane Otis struck very near Acapulco, Mexico, on Tuesday night as a monster 165 mile-per-hour category 5 cyclone. On Monday night, about 24-hours before landfall, the National Hurricane Center (NHC) was predicting it would do so as 70 mile-per-hour tropical storm.

With the energy content (and destructive potential) of the wind increasing with the cube of the windspeed, that means that Otis reached Mexico with 13 times more destructive potential than what had been expected! Even when the hurricane warning was issued at 4 a.m. local time on Tuesday, the hurricane center was still forecasting just an ordinary category 1 hurricane to reach Mexico’s Pacific coast. For a region of Mexico that had never experienced anything stronger than a category 1, getting hit by a cat-5 with little to no warning has led to severe consequences."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/10/otis-teaches-a-ter...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Otis was a very small hurricane...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Yup... but the point is that the increase in intensity was very rapid... and maybe a sign of more to come.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Think of a tornado. More compact means more intense. As I said, it was a small storm. Maybe the experts should have known.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

So we're supposed to trust the future storm predictions of "experts" whose recent storm predictions were wrong? I'd rather trust a tuna sandwich bought at a gas station.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I miss the days when gas station sandwiches came with mustard and mayonnaise. Another loss due to climate change I guess. Every time I bite into my dry sandwich I will be reminded of drought and climate change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Montreal latest city to ban gas to new buildings

"Following moves by other large cities in North America, including Vancouver and New York, Montreal is adopting regulations which will prohibit devices responsible for greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions linked to heating for new small buildings, and which will require that new large buildings are decarbonized."

https://www.hpacmag.com/heating-plumbing-air-condi...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

And not one realistic plan to provide the needed, reliable electricity. What's it gonna take?

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Canada has pretty reliable hydro, for most of the country... carbon friendly 'juice'.

"According to the International Hydropower Association, Canada is the fourth largest producer of hydroelectricity in the world in 2021 after the United States, Brazil, and China.[1] In 2019, Canada produced 632.2 TWh of electricity with 60% of energy coming from Hydroelectric and Tidal Energy Sources).[2]

Some provinces and territories, such as British Columbia, Manitoba, Newfoundland and Labrador, Quebec and Yukon produce over 90% of their electricity from Hydro. "

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

My local township is contemplating a microgrid. The problem is that 80% of homes use LPG bottles for heating, hot water, and cooking. The geniuses in state government are very keen for gas to go away. Getting rid of gas and switching to heat pumps and EVs will double the required electricity from the microgrid.



Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Canada is topographically gifted, so they can get power from flowing water. Most of us are not so fortunate. But we have other resources, which must be relied upon.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
We'll see what next year brings...

"Two major reports published this week paint an alarming picture of this unprecedented heat: Humanity has just lived through the hottest 12-month period in at least 125,000 years, according to one, while the other declared that 2023 is “virtually certain” to be the hottest year in recorded history, after five consecutive months of record-obliterating temperatures.

“We have become all too used to climate records falling like dominoes in recent years,” David Reay, executive director of the Edinburgh Climate Change Institute at the University of Edinburgh, told CNN. “But 2023 is a whole different ball game in terms of the massive margin by which these records have been broken.”"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/climate/global-warm...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

David Reay, executive director of the Edinburgh Climate Change Institute at the University of Edinburgh

This guy's career depends on negative news. Take everything he says with a giant grain of salt.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
A possible problem in the future with climate change may be the availability of fresh water...

"Ms Hunt is chief innovation officer for a Canadian start-up called Oneka Technologies. It has developed floating desalination systems that turn seawater into fresh water.

While large, shore-based desalination plants typically require vast amounts of energy to remove the salt, Oneka's small units are powered solely by the movement of the waves.

"Desalination facilities are conventionally powered by fossil fuels," says Ms Hunt. "But the world has certainly reached a pivot point. We want to move away from fossil fuel powered desalination."

More than 300 million people around the world now rely on desalinated water, according to the global trade body, the International Desalination Association. This water is supplied by more than 21,000 plants, almost twice as many as there were 10 years ago."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-67237006

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The desalination plants exist and are being powered. If they get turned off that is not going to be the fault of climate change. It will be the fault of dik inspired hysteria.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Nope, Tug... this could just be another 'green' source of 'fresh' water if it becomes necessary in future.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The notion of powering desalination with renewables is laughable. We can live with unreliable power. We can't live with unreliable water.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Powering desalination with wave or tide powers seems to be almost as reliable as fossil fuel. The latter may become in short supply.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The whole concept of wave generation is absurd. Waves are powered by the wind. Why would you add extra steps?

And tidal generation? Where is the potential energy? It's not from height and it's not from velocity. The turbine required would be immense. It's also not so friendly for the estuaries it would be plugging up.

The fact that anyone would suggest such preposterous ideas demonstrates their disconnect from reality.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I just checked. The total installed capacity (not output) of wave power stations globally is .... 10 MW. (as of 2015), by 2020 it was more like 20 MW less failures.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wave_power_s...

If I might indulge in a lame emoticon since they seem to fashionable lol

More seriously I have seen a lot of money poured into wave power over the years and after some initial enthusiasm the demonstration projects sink from sight within 2 years.




Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
...a heads up.

"The effects of a rapidly warming climate are being felt in every corner of the US and will worsen over the next 10 years with continued fossil fuel use, according to a stark new report from federal agencies.

The Fifth National Climate Assessment, a congressionally mandated report due roughly every five years, warned that even though planet-warming pollution in the US is slowly decreasing, it is not happening nearly fast enough to meet the nation’s targets, nor is it in line with the UN-sanctioned goal to limit global warming to 1.5 degrees Celsius – a threshold beyond which scientists warn life on Earth will struggle to cope.

This year’s assessment reflects the reality that Americans can increasingly see and feel climate impacts in their own communities, said Katharine Hayhoe, a distinguished climate scientist at Texas Tech University and contributor to the report.

“Climate change is affecting every aspect of our lives,” Hayhoe told CNN.

Some of the report’s sweeping conclusions remain painfully familiar: No part of the US is truly safe from climate disasters; slashing fossil fuel use is critical to limit the consequences, but we’re not doing it fast enough; and every fraction of a degree of warming leads to more intense impacts.

But there are some important new additions: Scientists can now say with more confidence when the climate crisis has made rainstorms, hurricanes and wildfires stronger or more frequent, long-term drought more severe and heat more deadly."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/14/us/national-climate...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

Scientists can now say with more confidence when the climate crisis has made rainstorms, hurricanes and wildfires stronger or more frequent, long-term drought more severe and heat more deadly."

What is the purpose of a scientist if there are only certain things they "can" say?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Self-proclaimed 'scientists' can say whatever they want, but it doesn't make it true or a fact. Lots of scientists were sure that all the other planets, the sun, etc. orbited around the Earth, and that the way to cure diseases was to let the 'bad' blood out.

Btw, the heat today is far less deadly than it has been in the past.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

It won't be less deadly if we stop using fossil fuels.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

" 1.5 degrees Celsius – a threshold beyond which scientists warn life on Earth will struggle to cope." Our monkey ancestors were just fine in higher temperatures, and they didn't have A/C, and they had fur.

Also funnily enough, the trend of current migration is towards warmer places from colder places. So people choose warmer places.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Please, dik, from now on when you mention a scientist can you please define the word scientist because you seem to have a twisted definition. Also include credentials before job title. Job title isn't a descriptive term.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Still not much of an improvement...

"“Despite decades of warnings from the scientific community, thousands of pages of reports and dozens of climate conferences, we are still heading in the wrong direction,” WMO Secretary-General Petteri Taalas said.

This month, the UN’s annual climate summit is scheduled to start in Dubai and could include a push to phase out the use of fossil fuels before 2050. But thus far, countries that account for large shares of the world’s carbon emissions have fallen far short of the cuts needed."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/15/un-says-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

And why is this meeting being held in Dubai?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
...likely political reasons. You don't think the world governments are concerned about climate change, do you?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

A few reasons:

-It is far from the attendees so the CO2 cost of attendance is very high.

-Dubai is a symbol of opulence and excess. Not conservation.

-Dubai is proof that humans can thrive in hot climates.

It's very bad optics. It's as if the attendees are more interested in the trip than the conference.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

It's as if the attendees are more interested in the trip than the conference.

Nah, that couldn't be it, could it?

It's probably just because there's enough room for them to all park their private jets, unlike some of the other exotic locations where climate conferences have been held in recent years.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

How Dare You!TM

LOL

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
They could all be held by teleconference... without all the airtravel.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

If they were serious.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It 'kinda' shows they aren't.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

They are serious. About feathering their own nests. Climate change is an excuse for making money.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
hokie... I suspect the cost is going to be great.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Now there's a statement I think we can all agree on. Benefits (if any) very much less so:)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Capture...

"Climate technology company Heirloom has opened the first commercial Direct Air Capture plant in the US, which will sequester atmospheric carbon for permanent storage using energy-efficient kilns.

Located in Tracy, California, the Heirloom facility will use a limestone filtration process to capture up to 1,000 tons of CO2 per year, which will be then stored permanently."

https://www.dezeen.com/2023/11/15/heirloom-opens-f...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (Climate change is an excuse for making money.)


You mean that they are in it for profit, and not for the betterment of mankind... whodathought ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

We are about to experience the impact of one of dik's anti-CO2 actions. One of the berths we service is taking the righteous act of cutting it's CO2 emissions. In order to do so we cannot run our generators when tied to the pier. Our generators burn 1-1.5 gallons diesel fuel per hour. The result this action is that we will have to drive to another berth 15 miles away. That means an hour of transit time in each direction at around 70 gallons per hour.

They are literally asking us to burn an additional 140 gallons of diesel fuel to burn 12-18 gallons somewhere nearby in the name of climate change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Typical bureaucratic rules. The unforeseen consequences are rarely foreseen.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (We are about to experience the impact of one of dik's anti-CO2 actions.)


Not mine... but I can see a lot more of this stuff in the future... maybe even some sillier. I dunno...

What happens if they determine flying has too big a carbon footprint... or even private transportation, or private aircraft?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

What happens if they determine flying has too big a carbon footprint... or even private transportation, or private aircraft?
That's never going to happen, considering who's flying in those private jets. Sacrifices to save the planet are for the 'little people' to make.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Yet you loudly push the rhetoric that causes people support such silly decisions.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I think you are correct, Bridge...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

"The unforeseen consequences are rarely foreseen."

My state is floundering badly but "appears" to remain "blind" to consequences that were, should have been, and remain foreseeable.

The US Federal government has been legally "bound" to consider cost-benefit since 1981.
'' regulatory action shall not be undertaken unless the potential benefits to society from the regulation outweigh the potential costs to society.''

Just sayin' .

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Here is a bit of a thought exercise. Exxon is in hot water for stealing climate change information by hacking.

https://www.npr.org/2023/11/16/1213320496/azari-is...

Why is it so threatening for an oil company to have access to climate change data and related communications?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Exxon has not been charged with any offence. They may have used the information, but there has been no inference that they paid for it. Unlike the DNC, who paid for hacking against the Trump campaign. Exxon falls in the category of many news organizations who use information that 'falls off a truck'.

The guy was found guilty of "conspiracy to commit computer hacking, computer hacking, and aggravated identity theft". Sounds like he is a mercenary who got what he deserved.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

No mention of the the pollution in the Black Sea. If ships destroyed? That's a lot of oil spilled.

https://gcaptain.com/

Alas, it doesn't matter what the pollution is, rather, who is doing it.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Whole of government approach. Constitution and other legal niceties be d*mned.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

That is the purpose of international agreements such as the Montreal Accord. It allows them to bypass our checks and balances while going straight for our checks.

The joke is on us, too. They're banning HFC refrigerants while mandating heat pumps. We're boned.

To double down, the next generation of refrigerants is flammable!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
more scare tactics...

"Capping global temperature rise at two degrees Celsius over baseline is no longer seen as enough to avoid a catastrophic rise in sea levels that would decimate the earth’s coastlines and displace hundreds of millions of people, climate scientists warn.

A report released Thursday by the International Cryosphere Climate Initiative, compiled by more than 60 scientists and policy experts, is sounding the alarm on new modelling data that indicates the 2015 Paris Agreement is woefully out-of-date.

The consortium is urging world leaders to take stock of new research ahead of the United Nations’ COP28 climate conference later this month. According to the report, the only road forward is ensuring that global temperatures do not rise over 1.5C above pre-industrial levels, much lower than the two degree maximum set at the Paris Climate Accords."

https://globalnews.ca/news/10098366/sea-level-rise...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

What the heck is a cryosphere and why would you take an organization that uses that label seriously?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The headline: "Earth facing dire sea level rise — up to 20m — even if climate goals met"

No need to bother I guess...

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

It's their way of saying "no refunds".

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Heh :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

from wiki The cryosphere is an all-encompassing term for the portions of Earth's surface where water is in solid form, including sea ice, lake ice, river ice, snow cover, glaciers, ice caps, ice sheets, and frozen ground. Thus, there is a wide overlap with the hydrosphere.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Odd that they would prefer an icy world over a watery world. We see much less biodiversity in regions covered with ice.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Proposed high speed rail in Florida... The rest of the world is looking at 300-400 kph (200-300 mph). Electric trains may be the future of long distance travel.

"Florida's new high-speed rail linking Miami and Orlando could be blueprint for future travel in U.S.
cbs-mornings

As Thanksgiving approaches, millions of Americans are gearing up for holiday travel. AAA projects that over 55 million people will travel more than 50 miles, which would make this Thanksgiving the third-busiest on record.

This year, a significant development in travel options comes from Florida, where a new rail line connects Miami and Orlando. The service — the only privately owned, multi-city railroad in the U.S. — was launched less than two months ago, and is already profitable and seeing a rise in ridership.

Brightline, which offers the new service, first launched in 2018 with service between Miami and West Palm Beach. Its trains, which can reach speeds of 125 miles per hour, have seen a 116% increase in ridership this year. The company anticipates accommodating approximately 4.3 million passengers annually between South Florida and Orlando by 2025."



https://www.cbsnews.com/news/brightline-florida-hi...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Nope... but if rail traffic is to ever become significant, it will have to be a lot faster than 125mph... I suspect.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Like air travel?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

We have a lot of electrified rail in Queensland. Pulling coal trains, powered by coal powered power plants. Quite good synergy.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Ocean temperatures continue to increase...

"Global ocean temperatures are increasing, and sea levels are rising. According to the OSR 7, marine heatwaves—prolonged warm water events—have become more frequent and intense in the last 40 years, while marine cold spells—prolonged cold-water events—have become less frequent. The OSR 7 also reports a record-low reduction in ocean heat exchange in the Greenland–Scotland Ridge around 2018. These changes in ocean heat transport and exchange can adversely impact the ocean currents which drive climate and weather around the world. Additional information provided in the OSR 7 summary notes that Antarctic sea ice extent was the lowest on record for June 2023, showing a loss of nearly 2.20 million km2 of sea ice in comparison to the long-term average for that month (1981 to 2010), an area more than seven times the size of Poland."

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-eu...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Funny how the scare tactics are becoming a seasonal tradition among greenies. I've noticed similar articles the past few years, some of which are still accessible via google.

"Climate change could soon make these staple Thanksgiving dishes more scarce"

https://abcnews.go.com/US/climate-change-make-stap...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The other one currently making me laugh is glacier melting revealing 7000 year old artefacts. We are just coming out of the Little Ice Age, it isn't surprising. We've yet to find the coal mines from 12000 years ago that were keeping the Earth warm then.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Changes in precipitation...

"Snowfall is declining globally as temperatures warm because of human-caused climate change, a new analysis and maps from a NOAA climate scientist show.

But less snow falling from the sky isn’t as innocuous as just having to shovel less; it threatens to reinforce warming, and disrupt food and water for billions of people.

Climate scientists say the future of snowfall is pretty clear: A warmer world driven by human pollution means precipitation is more likely to fall as rain than snow, all else being equal."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/25/weather/snowfall-te...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It gets political in Canada, too...

"Alberta Premier Danielle Smith will be using the province’s Sovereignty Act to challenge Ottawa’s requirement to achieve a net-zero electricity grid by 2035.

Smith confirmed the plan on 630 CHED’s and QR Calgary’s Your Province Your Premier on Saturday.

During the radio show, Smith said the province tried to work collaboratively with the federal government to make the province’s electricity grid net zero by 2050. However, Ottawa’s target of 2035 is “unachievable” and will make electricity unaffordable for Albertans, she said."

https://globalnews.ca/news/10115312/danielle-smith...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Concrete in Canada...

"It should come as no surprise that the cement industry is a major contributor to CO2 emissions around the globe. The Cement Association of Canada (CAC) states that the sector is the third-largest industrial energy consumer and the second-largest industrial CO2 emitter, representing approximately seven per cent of the world’s CO2 emissions. The fact that concrete is the second- most consumed commodity around the world, trailing only behind water, amplifies its impact.

To assist the cement industry in its effort to reduce CO2 emissions, in 2022 the CAC, with assistance from Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada, launched the Roadmap to Net-Zero Carbon Concrete by 2050. The roadmap “commits the sector to achieving reductions of 15 million tonnes of greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions cumulatively by 2030, followed by ongoing reductions of over 4 million tonnes annually from the production of cement and concrete in Canada.”

The CAC expects these GHG reductions to come from a combination of initiatives, including the elimination of the use of coal and petroleum coke, increased use of lower-carbon and alternative fuels, use of alternative and blended cements, improving thermal efficiency, carbon capture investment, the use of clean energy, and advocating for updated codes, standards, specifications and procurement policies.

“Concrete Zero in Canada includes a wide array of different technologies that we can apply today, which, in many cases, are bolt-on technologies that can be implemented right now, with proven effectiveness. In other instances, they’re almost ready for prime time. They’re just in the final stages of demonstration and optimization. And in other cases, it’s really a lot of early-stage research that is in place,” says Robert Cumming, head of sustainability and public affairs for Lafarge Canada (East)."

https://www.on-sitemag.com/features/concrete-gains...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
...something to look forward to.

"Well, it’s official: 2023 was the hottest year on record, but cheer up, it will likely pale in comparison to the heat waves in years to come, according to a new report by the World Meteorological Organization.

The last year was hotter than both 2020 and 2016, the previous hottest years on record, with a mean surface temperature 2.5 degrees Fahrenheit higher than preindustrial levels. The report’s release coincides with COP28, the United Nations–hosted climate change summit in Dubai, in an effort to inform negotiations among the 198 countries that are both in attendance at the conference and stuck together on a rapidly warming planet. It’s unlikely, however, December’s temperatures will impact this year’s ranking—according to the report, which noted that 2023 is “virtually certain” to be the “warmest year in the 174-year observational record.”"

https://newrepublic.com/post/177250/hottest-year-r...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Dik, can you please elaborate on who the World Meteorological Organization is and what is their primary source of funding? Is their a conflict of interest?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
" A specialized agency of the United Nations whose mandate covers weather, climate and water resources. The UN’s scientific voice on the state and behaviour of our atmosphere and climate."

better...

"The World Meteorological Organization (WMO) is a specialized agency of the United Nations responsible for promoting international cooperation on atmospheric science, climatology, hydrology and geophysics.[2]

The WMO originated from the International Meteorological Organization, a nongovernmental organization founded in 1873 as a forum for exchanging weather data and research.[3] Proposals to reform the status and structure of the IMO culminated in the World Meteorological Convention of 1947, which formally established the World Meteorological Organization.[4] The Convention entered into force on 23 March 1950, and the following year the WMO began operations as an intergovernmental organization within the UN system.

The WMO is made up of 193 countries and territories, and facilitates the "free and unrestricted" exchange of data, information, and research between the respective meteorological and hydrological institutions of its members.[5][6] It also collaborates with nongovernmental partners and other international organizations on matters related to environmental protection, climate change, resource management, and socioeconomic development.[7]"


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

United Nations. Yeah, that's an unbiased organization.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The global warming conferences should be by teleconference... if they were at all concerned.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

No, they want a holiday, and to find out how to make more money from their scam.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Our taxpayer's money, hard at work. Because it's being abused, doesn't mean that climate change is a hoax.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The cost of climate change... and this will likely increase...

"Every three weeks, the United States experiences an extreme weather event that produces $1 billion worth of damage, according to the latest US National Climate Assessment report, released earlier this month. Compare that to 40 years ago, when extreme weather episodes that cost an inflation-adjusted $1 billion happened once every four months on average.

As of November 8, there have been 25 weather and climate disasters with losses exceeding $1 billion, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration. That exceeds last year’s count — even without data from the last two months of the year.

In total, extreme weather events cost the US $150 billion per year, due to direct impacts such as infrastructure damage, worker injuries and agricultural losses, the authors of the report estimate. And the cost of extreme weather events is expected to grow in the near term with a projected rise in sea levels and temperatures, the report states.

Included in this year’s tally are the devastating wildfires that took place in Hawaii over the summer. The damage from the wildfires, which took the lives of over 100 people and destroyed thousands of homes and businesses, cost $5.6 billion, according to an estimate from the National Centers for Environmental Information, a division of NOAA."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/30/economy/what-150-bi...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Compared to $62000 billion to completely replace fossil fuels in the world, your $150 billion per year in the US sounds like small change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Hokie... it's a beginning... we'll see what next year brings, and the year after...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
See these costs and compare them to what they are preparing to provide...

"Several nations, led by host United Arab Emirates, immediately pledged more than US$420 million for the fund, which took 30 years to approve."

It's a joke and does not come anywhere near the costs involved. COP should be canned...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

While we are at it, can the rest of the useless United Nations.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
A different topic, yes, they are seriously broken and Canada should withdraw from them. This is way too political.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

At last we agree on something.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
He likely doesn't know what he is talking about.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

"Every three weeks, the United States experiences an extreme weather event that produces $1 billion worth of damage, according to the latest US National Climate Assessment report, released earlier this month. Compare that to 40 years ago, when extreme weather episodes that cost an inflation-adjusted $1 billion happened once every four months on average.
Was it also adjusted for the massive increase in huge properties that have been built in the last 40 years, concentrated in coastal areas?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Was it adjusted for the federal insurance for properties built in flood zones? No, of course not. Was it adjusted for people (like me) who build houses in state forests because it is a nice place to live? No, of course not. Was it adjusted for the abandonment of pre-emptive fuel reduction burns ? No, of course not.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
...some additional impacts of climate change. They missed the geopolitical implications, or decided not to include them:

"As global warming accelerates, decisions on infrastructure, energy, mobility, water and food security or urban planning need to be informed by the potential impacts of climate change. The Copernicus Climate Change Service (C3S) ERA5 reanalysis dataset provides key insights about our past and present climate, helping to foresee the risks, and assisting policymakers in making informed decisions.

The consequences of climate change, anticipated by scientists many years ago, have become a part of our everyday lives. Over the past months, almost every corner of the world has been affected, and nearly every individual has witnessed, to varying degrees, an increase in the frequency or intensity of extreme weather occurrences such as heatwaves, wildfires, droughts, or heavy rainfall. This transformation is occurring rapidly, and so we need swift adjustments in policies.

Reliable and high-quality data plays a crucial role in decision-making, as understanding the past establishes the baseline risk profile needed for effective future planning."

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-co...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Dik, just advance notice of some weather for your alarmist reporting...there is a big tropical cyclone off the northeast coast of Queensland which will probably hit land in the coming week.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Not alarmed by it... kinda expect it. I'm more curious about how Australia will do this up and coming summer... rain, heat, drought, fire, etc.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Yeah, that’s Australia. “Land of drought and flooding rain.” Always was, always will be.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Is that why your bugs are so ornary?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Nuclear energy...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gF9kkB0UWYQ

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

As I posted a long while back, in any given year parts of Australia will be in drought, while other parts flood. Fires are always around. Therefore you can always make little girls cry by selecting a suitable 'truth'. Since this is an El Nino year we can expect high temperatures on the East Coast. None of this has anything to do with global warming.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Speaking of fires, is this even legal anymore?



You get much better efficiency without the rack as well. Lay your logs in the ashes at the bottom of the fireplace. Too much airflow cools the log off and carries the heat up the chimney.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

"rain, heat, drought, fire, etc." ... pretty much describes any season in Oz (and elsewhere too) ... once you omit all the boring "normal" times.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I hope it remains 'boring'.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The shrinking of Australia?

"More than a dozen of the coral islands that mark Australia's maritime boundaries are at risk of disappearing, a study has found.

Multiple stresses including rising sea levels threaten their existence.

Their disappearance could have implications for the country's maritime borders, the study said.

The islands extend the jurisdiction of Australia, with over a million square kilometres of its territory supported and demarcated by their presence.

The study assessed 56 islands based on factors including how vulnerable they are to heatwaves and being flooded.

The report, which was published in the Science of the Total Environment journal, identified three islands on Western Australia's North West Shelf that were considered at "very high risk" of climate threats.

Eleven more islands in the Coral Sea off the Queensland coast were classed as facing high risk.

None of the islands had zero risk.

The study said the risk to the islands has implications for the communities that live and rely on them. It said the risk of their disappearance also has geo-political implications.

The islands "provide large amounts of area that Australia has rights over - fishing, transport, mineral exploration," Dr Thomas Fellowes, of the University of Sydney, told the BBC.

"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67735681

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
More Australian stuff... if it doesn't rain, it pours...

"Record rainfall is causing widespread flooding in far north Queensland, in what authorities expect will be the Australian region's worst-ever flood.

Thousands of people have been evacuated but others remain stranded.
Extreme weather driven by a tropical cyclone has dumped a year's worth of rain on some areas.
Images from the region show planes submerged at Cairns airport, a crocodile seen in the middle of a town, and people fleeing homes in boats.

So far no deaths or missing people have been reported.
Intense rainfall is expected to continue for another 24 hours."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67740978

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The variation will obviously be on the high side for 2023. In most years, Cairns (or any other location) is not hit directly by a tropical cyclone.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
How many climate change deniers does it take to change a lightbulb?

What are you talking about, the lightbulb is fine!

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/15/opinions/climate-ch...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
so was the lightbulb...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Light bulbs get a lot less dull if you break them.

Regurgitating climate propaganda is dull. It's time to break the narrative.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
just for a very short time...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Things are moving up... will it be soon enough?

"In a landmark move, the European Parliament has set 2035 as the deadline to stop the sale of new internal combustion engine vehicles in Europe. This decision originally made in June 2022, brings the deadline five years closer than its initial 2040 target."

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/12/21/europe-bring...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The history behind 'Climate Stripes'...

"In 2017, Ellie Highwood, then professor of climate physics at the University of Reading, posted a photograph on Twitter of a "global warming blanket" she had crocheted, in which rows of colour represented average global temperature changes across time. She had no idea that a graphic version later created by a colleague would become a global symbol of climate change.

The "climate stripes" image has been embraced by activists globally, and used as a cover image for Greta Thunberg's The Climate Book, as well as for print editions of The Economist and the Folha de S.Paulo, a Brazilian newspaper. The stripes have been worn in London Fashion Week catwalks and as part of the UK football team Reading FC’s players' uniform.

The stripes have been displayed as public infrastructure, on public transport in Europe, decorated buildings and even natural landmarks such as the White Cliffs of Dover in England. Recently, they were shown in a three day music festival in Mexico City."

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20231206-the-co...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It's easy Greg... I mentioned a while back that the problem is way beyond my skills, and that the best I could do was to provide information so that others with better skills may be able to address the problem. Also what progress, if any, has been made. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Dik -

A lot of progress has been made in de-bunking the obviously political and false narratives spread by the elitist world leaders (like Al Gore, AOC) and the radical anti-prosperity activists (like Greta Thundberg).

Unfortunately, a lot MORE harm has been caused by the neo-Marxist intrusion into our universities and corporations. Where they have poisoned our youth with faux-academia that posits that all capitalism is bad and our country needs to atone for somehow causing all the problems in the world. Where actual truth and good science are censored because they don't align with DEI or social justice goals.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It's an upcoming problem... notwithstanding the people you mentioned, it happening. We just don't know the extent.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Why give the people actively getting in the way of solutions the time of day of that is the case? If it is an existential problem, why trivialize it with a quilt?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

"Every little bit helps." LOL

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Sustainability...

"Japan's biggest-ever earthquake in 2011 caused a tsunami - and the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant went into meltdown. The devastation displaced over a hundred and 50,000 people and many never returned.

Soma, in the north of the region, is a place rebuilt to entice populations back to the area - and it has unrivalled green credentials.

The Soma project serves as a testbed of sustainable ideas which could be rolled out across Japan - and around the world.

Tech-loving traveller Paul Carter is in Japan to find out more."

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gwx3j6/japan-s-te...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Energy Transfer...

"With space on land at a premium in Japan, new locations to generate solar energy are being sought. This means innovators are turning to the sea to meet our energy needs in the form of offshore floating solar arrays.

In tandem with this idea, a company called Everblue are developing wind-powered boats to ferry power gathered by the solar arrays back to shore."

https://www.bbc.com/reel/video/p0gwx3cy/how-to-shi...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I can't even park a barge at my dock because its shadow kills the sea grass.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Yeah, Japan can't spare land for big solar farms. They need it all to feed their people. I saw this a few years ago when they were dismantling solar farms, turning the area back into rice growing.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Whatever the reason... they seem to be on the right path.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Killing sea grass is the right path?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
the work the Japanese are doing...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The Japanese are working in the wrong direction. Their power had a significant nuclear component which has been in decline since Fukishima. Meanwhile, their coal consumption grows.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Methane as a greenhouse gas, and the failure of COP28...

"They can easily be seduced by statistics like methane is responsible for 30 percent of the warming now, which implies that we can get rid of that much warming by aggressively acting on methane. But that ignores how much methane is due to natural sources we can’t control.

It is a mass delusion. Even the IPCC has been very resistant to moving away from this false global warming potential equivalence, which goes back to the very first IPCC report. Myles Allen and I have been fighting this fight with IPCC. Myles is my colleague at Oxford and goes to COP meetings, and he couldn’t even get our improved ways of putting methane valuation on the agenda or mentioned in the reports. The IPCC is a very conservative organization, and because they—and policymakers—have gotten so used to these global warming equivalents, they seem very reluctant to change. It’s very distressing. And reporters have just been completely taken in by the notion that methane is the important thing."

https://thebulletin.org/2023/12/mass-delusion-and-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

No snow on the ground for Christmas here (NW corner of greater Toronto area). No snow in the 14-day forecast until sometime in January and even then, not much, and no overnight lows below -6 C.

Green Christmases are not unheard of - I've been out on my motorcycle on Christmas Eve a couple years ago and the only reason for not going out on Christmas Day was that I had family stuff to do ... but we had a snowstorm the day after that.

But, no snow on the ground until (maybe, if the forecast holds) 6 January is not normal.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
We've got about an inch, where we would normally have more. A couple of years ago is still in the climate change envelope. I suspect this will become more common in future.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Meanwhile for the less parochial

Beijing breaks a seven-decade cold-weather record

Reuters
December 24, 202310:02 PM GMT+10 Updated 2 days ago

BEIJING, Dec 24 (Reuters) – China’s capital Beijing has broken its record for hours of sub-zero temperatures in December dating back to 1951, after a cold wave swept swathes of the country and brought blizzards in its wake, sending temperatures towards historic lows.

Northern and northeastern parts of the country have experienced a record-breaking chill since last week, with some areas in the northeast hitting minus 40 Celsius and Fahrenheit and below, as biting cold air flowed down from the Arctic.

As of Sunday, a weather observatory in Beijing had recorded more than 300 hours of below-freezing temperatures since Dec. 11, the most for the month since records began in 1951, according to state-backed Beijing Daily.

The capital has also endured nine consecutive days of temperatures below minus 10 C (14 F) in this period, the Beijing Daily added.

Several cities in the central Chinese province of Henan, southwest of Beijing, are in the grip of a winter heating supply crunch, with thermal power suppliers in the city of Jiaozuo under pressure to ensure suppli

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
maybe a change in climate? ...time to pay the piper?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

That's why they call it climate change now instead of global warming. That way humans can be blamed for every kind of weather. It requires a certain degree of cognitive dissonance, but it's expedient.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
As a bit of a hint, we're largely responsible for it.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Less than 4% isn't largely responsible...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
...just a WAG, but there might be a correlation...





-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Yes, you've already posted these images. You have failed to explain how ice core samples can record higher CO2 concentrations if high CO2 prevents ice formation. Notice the steep slope followed by flat peaks. This indicates "clipping" of the measurements.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The top chart shows it all... since about 1940, things are heating up. CO2 may reduce ice formation, not prevent it in small proportions. We are talking about current CO2 levels being noticably greater but still only at over 400 ppm, as shown in the last chart. I'm eagerly awaiting for the new 'ShowYourStrips' barcode to come out showing 2023... we'll see if there is any change that may portend future barcodes.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

CO2 may reduce ice formation, not prevent it in small proportions.

I suggest you do some research on the Laurentide and Cordilleran ice sheets. These were over a mile thick in parts of the northern USA and Canada. Ice formation has certainly not kept up with prevention resulting in reduction.

I repeat, if ice is decreasing during natural periods of warming/high CO2, how is CO2 being stored in ice during those periods for future sampling?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I suspect in bubbles in the ice, I'm not sure how it is stored... a possible method; it explains a lot. There may be others...

https://www.antarcticglaciers.org/glaciers-and-cli...


and from part of the discussion:

"I saw a report on 400,000 years of Vostok ice cores. They had a graph that also showed CO2. It amazed me that despite what their own graph showed (that higher CO2 FOLLOWED warming) they keep saying that warmer follows CO2.

Reply

DOUG STELEY
19/08/2021 AT 10:48 AM
This is a common story spread by climate change deniers and their paid staff.

What you need to do is stop and read some of the science.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11659-clima...

Of course the deniers will then tell you that every one of the hundreds of science academies and organizations as well as so many tens of thousands of scientists and researchers are ALL in a massive conspiracy.

I will leave it up to you to decide if it’s possible that the warming set off an increase in CO2 that then “to use a terrible mixed metaphor” “Snowballed 😉

Or if it’s more likely that 97% of the world’s scientists are all in a secret conspiracy". There's additional discussion on ice cores in the discussion part by Peter Neff, "I’m an ice core scientist currently working on my PhD, and have helped Bethan a bit with the content on this page. I’d be happy to try and answer these questions."


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I have no idea of what causes the 'little hiccups'... in the great scheme of things, these perturbations have little effect, other than act as a red herring. The general trend is that they are increasing.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
EU plan for high speed trains:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC66cHZrAk0

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Not at all... like CO2, it will be addressed. It's all part of the journey.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (Doug Steley)

This is a common story spread by climate change deniers and their paid staff.

What you need to do is stop and read some of the science.

Who is he targeting with the story? His followers have fully bought in, hook line and sinker and he insults anybody else that may need to read the story. It's hilarious that he complains about "paid staff". Isn't that what he is?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
He's informing the ignorant... in the classic sense of ignorant.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Well, there is only one person who has been informed by his writings here. No climate denier is going to read that.

Imagine calling Einstein a gravity denier. They didn't deny the existence of gravity, he just had a different opinion of the cause.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Climate deniers are likely blissful... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I think it's interesting that dik posts references to the facts (that in the Vostok ice cores, the progression of warming followed by higher CO2 levels is clear), then proceeds to quote speculation of how the facts don't matter. After that, he quotes the "97% of scientist agree" myth (the 97% figure was a wholly bogus statistic of the percentage of published scientific papers on the subject, the bulk of which were written by a handful of prolific government-funded 'scientists').

Also, buried in the NewScientist article is that if we are successful in stopping global warming, we may trigger the beginning of the next ice age.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
We'll have to wait and find out, I guess. There is so much potential energy stored in very complex systems, and the stored energy is becoming greater. I don't know what the outcome will be. I suspect recent extreme weather conditions may be an indication of future weather that could only get much worse.

"He said 57 percent of climate scientists “don’t buy off on the idea that CO2 is the knob that’s turning the climate.” This is based on a flawed reading of a survey of 1,868 scientists; one of that survey’s authors has called Santorum’s claim “absolutely false.”

He called the oft-cited 97 percent consensus figure “bogus,” and said it was based on a survey of only 77 scientists. In fact, several surveys involving thousands of researchers have all found that the level of consensus that human activity is primarily responsible for warming is as high as 97 percent.
"

https://www.factcheck.org/2015/09/santorums-climat...


Stay blissful... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Factcheck.org? A fancy name doesn't equal credible. Every time you get challenged you ignore the challenge, change the subject, or post some more propaganda. How about you share some of your own thoughts beyond your canned "we will see" response.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Stay blissful, Tug...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Consensus is not science. 97% or more of scientists can be, and have been, wrong on several occasions. Of course, despite the blurbs from that joke of a fact checking site you quoted the percentage of climate experts that agree with the theory of anthropogenic global warming is not anywhere close to 97%.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I got booted out of the pub and banned from Nextdoor for daring to observe that COVID vaccines did not prevent infection.

The consensus was wrong.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I got booted from the pub due my unpopular political views, mostly regarding racial issues.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The 97% figure is extremely dodgy.

Here's how they got it.

Based on reading abstracts discarding all those that made no judgement of human causes (66%)
Of the remaining 34% 33% thought humans contributed (to some extent) to global warming.

33%/34%= 97%

Tada.

And you fell for it. Because it suits your agenda.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

BridgeSmith and TugboatEng,

You both were booted from the Pub because some there support censorship. If you wish, ask management to be readmitted. I sense that censorship is not quite as prevalent now.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I've never been booted out of any pub ... just saying, didn't realise it was a badge of honour.

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It's not the heat that gets you, it's the humidity... This summer could be interesting with the ENSO.

"According to official data, heat claimed almost 300 Australian lives and sent 7,000 people to hospital in the past decade.
But an Australian National University study argues the true numbers are vastly under-reported because death certificates only record certain information. It found heat had contributed to 36,000 Australian deaths between 2006 and 2017."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-67633892

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Wind turbines in wood...

“From the outside, there is little obvious difference between the Modvion wooden turbine and its steel cousins.
Both have a thick white coating to protect them from the elements and blades made primarily from fibreglass attached to a generator, which produces electricity when it turns.
It is only when we go inside the tower that the differences becomes clear. The walls have a curved raw wood finish, not unlike a sauna.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67718...

Increase in use of wind turbines:

https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1703902334/tips/_132119708_wind-nc_jpdrgy.webp

Carbon footprints (feetprints?) for energy sources:

https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/upload/v1703902334/tips/_132119709_emissionsintensity_noccs-nc_icwnci.webp

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

This is hilarious. There is a thread in the hobby forum complaining about the high cost of wood due to lack of availability. The forests can't keep up with demand. Maybe we should fertilize them? Oh wait, there is a urea shortage too? As climate change causes forest fires, apparently, there won't even be forests to build these turbines. A 500 foot tall structure to make 2MW of power? What a waste.

Dik, you should be mindful of what you post here. We're smarter than your average climate alarmist. You aren't helping your cause posting such ridiculous stories.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Hokie, I guess I'll stay out. This forum is too valuable to
risk losing because a few people don't like my observations.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Your choice, but there are times when your input in the Pub would be appreciated. Dik's climate alarmist forum is best avoided.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (...complaining about the high cost of wood due to lack of availability. The forests can't keep up with demand. ...Dik, you should be mindful of what you post here. We're smarter than your average climate alarmist.)

I wonder at times and sometimes have to give my head a shake...

Carbon footprints of common building material:

https://pliteq.com/news/building-vs-carbon-footpri...

1. Rammed Earth - With an average of 48kg embodied carbon per m³.
2. Softwood Timber - Softwood timber emits on average 110kg embodied carbon per m³.
3. Cross Laminated Timber - Averaging about 219kg embodied carbon per m³ in emission.
4. Stone - Stone emits about 237kg embodied carbon per m³.
5. Clay Brick Wall - Averaging on 345kg embodied carbon per m³.
6. Reinforced Concrete - With an average of 635kg embodied carbon per m³.
7. Glass - Glass on average produces 3600kg embodied carbon per m³.
8. Steel Section - Steel carries on average 12090kg of embodied carbon per m³.
9. Aluminum - Aluminum brings on 18009kg of embodied carbon per m³ on average.

Plastics for the blades are likely down near the bottom of the list... not included as a common building material. Take a look at the earlier chart showing the growth in use of wind turbines.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

It's entirely worthless to compare carbon per m3 of various building materials without comparing the m3 required to construct. The image in your article shows a wooden structure with a wall thickness of ~18 inches where the same structure in steel would be ~1/4 inch.

How does that affect your interpretation of your data?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I just read that into the numbers... knowing that the steel project will use far less steel than the concrete one... I've not been able to come across values for completed projects as a cost per square foot (in carbon values, or something relevant).

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

There is a reason those studies don't exist.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It'll be curious to see what the end of 2024 is like... more of the same, or worse?

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/30/weather/extreme-wea...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

California just banned portable chainsaws so expect our wildfire season to get substantially worse, all in the name of climate change.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It's been a record breaking year:

"The year 2023 has been the hottest on record, according to scientists.

According to observers, sizzling heatwaves, devastating floods, and storms have all contributed to global weather records being smashed this year.

"[Year] 2023 has now had six record-breaking months and two record-breaking seasons,” Samantha Burgess, deputy director of Copernicus Climate Change Service (C3S), said in a statement this month.

The world has experienced the highest mean temperature on record for the first 11 months of the year, 1.46 degrees Celsius (2.63 degrees Fahrenheit) above the pre-industrial average.

From January to November, the 11-month average was 0.13C (0.234F) higher than 2016, which was previously the warmest calendar year on record."

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/12/31...

Looking at the charts, the interesting thing is that the increases do not appear to be marginal, but significant increases. I hope the increases for 2024 are not equally as significant.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (California just banned portable chainsaws)


I don't know what the safety records for chainsaws are... it could be that electric ones are more safe than gas powered ones. If their source of power is fossil fuel driven then this may not be an improvement... same goes for EVs.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

What? That comment is incoherent.

California banned the sale engine driven tools. This includes many tools that there is no electric alternative for.

Electric is especially problematic in forestry where unimproved conditions on the ground exclude the use of vehicles meaning everything needs to be hand carried.

This will literally make California's wildfire season worse after blaming these engines for causing California's wildfires.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (What? That comment is incoherent.)


Which one?
  • I don't know what the safety records for chainsaws are...
  • it could be that electric ones are more safe than gas powered ones.
  • If their source of power is fossil fuel driven then this may not be an improvement...
  • same goes for EVs.
Which statement is incoherent? ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
As far as banning fuel powered engine tools... that may be a plus. Unless the source of electric power is without using fossil fuels, it may not be much of an improvement. Most two cycle engines are bad for pollution.

The effect of this on clearing the bush is another issue. It may be time to implement Trump's raking the forest floor approach.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

I said California banned chainsaws due to climate change.

You responded with some irrelevant non-statement about safety.

The source of power comment is where it gets really confusing. It reads as if you are referring to the safety of the saws.

Back to the climate change subject, do you think the total emissions from gas powered chainsaws compares on any level to the amount of emissions they prevent by reducing forest fire quantity/intensity?

Has there been any law passed having the intention of slowing climate change without doing the opposite?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Thank, tug... safety can be physical safety, or climate safety... but OK. I didn't know why they banned fossil fuel powered tools.

When it comes to electrical stuff... the source of the electricity can be a problem. There is nothing confusing about it.

It's like the anecdote the hundreds of starfish that are beached and of the child throwing one of them back. Her dad comments that she cannot save them all and she replies that she at least saved that one. Every little bit helps. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

A more accurate version would be stepping on hundreds of starfish to throw one back only to have the tide come in later and then claiming to have helped one.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It was just a simple anecdote showing that each little bit helps.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

It will be nice when people listen to the whistle blowers that under oath talked to congress some months ago.
Then you will understand the machinery of climate engineering,all done to propagate the agenda.
Search out the fellow that worked in Antarctica.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
If God gives you lemons...

"Surfers from Brazil, France and Portugal have arrived at Mavericks, a famous wave south of San Francisco, to ride the giant walls of water.
Waves up to 70ft (21 meters) have been ridden, as even larger waves pass by.

Officials have warned onlookers to stay away from the shore after people were injured by huge rogue waves.

Chris Cuvelier, who runs the Maverick Surf Awards competition and can see the rolling swells from his kitchen, told BBC News on Friday that "people have been getting on flights all over the world" to surf the legendary spot this week.

Professional surfers, "especially people that surf Mavericks, they're big wave surfers and many of them are travelling around the globe to go catch big waves", he says."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67846889

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
...an update:

"The year 2024 could be warmer than 2023 - as some of the record ocean surface heat escapes into the atmosphere - although the "weird" behaviour of the current El Niño means it's hard to be sure, Dr Hausfather says.

It raises the possibility that 2024 may even surpass the key 1.5C warming threshold across the entire calendar year for the first time, according to the UK Met Office.

Nearly 200 countries agreed in Paris in 2015 to try to limit warming to this level, to avoid the worst effects of global warming.

It refers to long-term averages over 20 or 30 years, so a year-long breach in 2024 wouldn't mean the Paris agreement had been broken.

But it highlights the concerning direction of travel, with each hot year bringing the world closer to passing 1.5C over the longer term.

Human activities are behind this long-term global warming trend, even though natural factors like El Niño can raise or reduce temperatures for individual years, and the temperatures experienced in 2023 go far beyond simply natural causes."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67861...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

Nearly 200 countries agreed in Paris in 2015 to try to limit warming to this level, to avoid the worst effects of global warming.

Ah, the hubris!

Quote:

Human activities are behind this long-term global warming trend, even though natural factors like El Niño can raise or reduce temperatures for individual years, and the temperatures experienced in 2023 go far beyond simply natural causes."

It depends on what you consider natural, I suppose. Burning coal for heating seems pretty normal and natural to me.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
and same with driving cars and trucks and using fossil fuel, I guess. These activities may have to change in the future. Like all good things, we have to wait and find out.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Global risks report... Chicken Little?

"The report comes days ahead of the annual WEF meeting – a five-day gathering of world leaders and corporate executives that kicks of on Jan. 15 in the Swiss ski resort of Davos.

The findings are based on a survey of nearly 1,500 experts, industry leaders and policymakers, with more than half of the respondents predicting some instability and a moderate risk of “global catastrophes” in the short term.
Three in 10 forecast more turbulent and stormy times with an “elevated risk of global catastrophes” over the next two years.

For the next decade, the outlook is even worse with 46 per cent of survey respondents anticipating “upheavals and elevated risk of global catastrophe” and 17 per cent saying “global catastrophic risks” are looming in the long term."

https://www3.weforum.org/docs/WEF_The_Global_Risks...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

The findings are based on a survey of nearly 1,500 experts, industry leaders and policymakers,

Of the "nearly" 1500 people surveyed, how many were actually experts, and what is their expertise? How many were industry leaders, and what industries are the leaders of? (the potential for bias is potentially enormous). Policymakers? Really? They included the speculations of a bunch of politicians in this "survey"? Yeah, that'll produce an unbiased, totally scientifically-based report, won't it?

Respondents makeup, from the report:



What, only 1% were a gender other than male or female? I'm disappointed.ponder

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Obviously the work is not completed :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

One reason they probably declined to predict alarmist ridiculousness is that in 2 years time they'll still be alive and working, whereas dik's beloved scenarios that we'll wait 30 years to see the main actors will be long forgotten. Otherwise you get this sort of nonsense
https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/1020747...

For extra irony, Maldives has recently extended its concrete runways so that more tourists can fly in.


Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The amount of blue continues to decrease:

https://www.copernicus.eu/en/news/news/observer-ex...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Things are looking up...

"Finnish start-up company Aircohol is pioneering the creation of a vodka-like spirit using carbon dioxide (CO2) extracted directly from the atmosphere.

This ground-breaking approach has the potential to reduce the industry’s carbon footprint by an astonishing 50 per cent. As they say in their own words ‘Aircohol is about saving the planet in a cheerful way!’

At the core of the process is a bioreactor that converts CO2 into alcohol through a two-day fermentation process, all while avoiding the emission of greenhouse gases."

https://euroweeklynews.com/2024/01/16/innovative-f...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

If only there was a way to convert CO2 and water into energy-producing compounds using sunlight...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

That is one number that I have not been able to find is the efficiency of photosynthesis at making hydrocarbons vs the efficiency of solar panels at making electricity.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Wiki says

The photosynthetic efficiency is the fraction of light energy converted into chemical energy during photosynthesis in green plants and algae. Photosynthesis can be described by the simplified chemical reaction

6 H2O + 6 CO2 + energy → C6H12O6 + 6 O2
where C6H12O6 is glucose (which is subsequently transformed into other sugars, starches, cellulose, lignin, and so forth). The value of the photosynthetic efficiency is dependent on how light energy is defined – it depends on whether we count only the light that is absorbed, and on what kind of light is used (see Photosynthetically active radiation). It takes eight (or perhaps ten or more[1]) photons to use one molecule of CO2. The Gibbs free energy for converting a mole of CO2 to glucose is 114 kcal, whereas eight moles of photons of wavelength 600 nm contains 381 kcal, giving a nominal efficiency of 30%.[2] However, photosynthesis can occur with light up to wavelength 720 nm so long as there is also light at wavelengths below 680 nm to keep Photosystem II operating (see Chlorophyll). Using longer wavelengths means less light energy is needed for the same number of photons and therefore for the same amount of photosynthesis. For actual sunlight, where only 45% of the light is in the photosynthetically active wavelength range, the theoretical maximum efficiency of solar energy conversion is approximately 11%. In actuality, however, plants do not absorb all incoming sunlight (due to reflection, respiration requirements of photosynthesis and the need for optimal solar radiation levels) and do not convert all harvested energy into biomass, which results in a maximum overall photosynthetic efficiency of 3 to 6% of total solar radiation.[1] If photosynthesis is inefficient, excess light energy must be dissipated to avoid damaging the photosynthetic apparatus. Energy can be dissipated as heat (non-photochemical quenching), or emitted as chlorophyll fluorescence.


PV can be 40%, but that is very expensive, typical domestic is 22% or so

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

PV solar cells don't remove CO2 from the atmosphere, or produce Oxygen, but plants do. With the Earth getting greener, more CO2 is being absorbed by plants. As plant life becomes more vigorous, due to more CO2, and expands over more area, due to increased precipitation and decreased ice cover, will the atmospheric CO2 levels stabilize, even without drastic and catastrophic actions by humans? Possibly. Seems likely to me that eventually it will balance out, likely with warmer temperatures (sounds good to me; I'm freezing my butt off), but also with a larger volume and more productive vegetation (i.e. more food for animals and people), over more land mass (more habitable land for humans and animals).

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

2
There are so many things about Global Warming that we don't fully understand. We know the earth is warming. We're pretty confident that CO2 pays a roll. But, we don't know how much and we don't know how serious other potential causing of warming are.

Is it possible that we find out that all the methane and natural gas that is accidentally released into the air when we're harvesting other fossil fuels is a major contributor? Yes, that is very possible.

Is it possible that the warming we saw in the 80, 90's and such was more severe because of the whole in the Ozone layer (which has mostly repaired)? Yes, that's possible too.

Is it possible that the sun's energy is going through a cycle? Yes, it is.

The key takeaway for me is that we have good reasons to strive for more efficiency in our power production and reduce our CO2 emissions. But, it would be idiotic to commit economic suicide to prevent a climate disaster that is almost certainly NOT coming.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (There are so many things about Global Warming that we don't fully understand. We know the earth is warming. We're pretty confident that CO2 pays a roll. But, we don't know how much and we don't know how serious other potential causing of warming are.)


The correlation between these two curves could be indicative of the amount of heat in the near future; the earth is playing catch-up I suspect.





in view of the records set last year may be a bit of an inkling...

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-67861...

We'll see if 2024 is any different than 2023... I suspect there will be more records broken.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

dik -

Look at the curve of climate related deaths. They've gone down exponentially over the last 150 years. The same time during which our CO2 emissions have gone up. The correlation would imply that the more CO2 we release, the safer we'll be from climate. wink

You get my point. Right? Correlation does not mean causation. Certainly, in this case, the REASON that climate deaths have gone down is we've made society a lot safer. What has driven that safety is ample and affordable energy. Whether it be heating your house during freezing weather. Cooling it during hot spells, or driving away from your house when a hurricane is coming..... Cheap and affordable energy has helped us a lot MORE than it has hurt us.

Now. we may see this trend of reduced climate deaths slow down, plateau or slightly reverse. But, rising CO2 on it's own is extremely unlikely to completely reverse this trend. However, completely destroying our economy will almost CERTAINLY reverse it. How? The most simple way possible. We've already seen what these policies do in Europe.... high energy prices will cause people to freeze in the winter and succumb to heat in the summer.

The main point is that we can certainly strive to reduce our CO2 emissions, but we must do so in a responsible and efficient way. If we go too extreme then the DAMAGE we cause with these ill advised policies will be way, way, way worse than what we were trying to prevent.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (Look at the curve of climate related deaths. They've gone down exponentially over the last 150 years. The same time during which our CO2 emissions have gone up. The correlation would imply that the more CO2 we release, the safer we'll be from climate.)


This has largely been explained because of the early warning provided. Looking around the weather seems to have gotten much more severe.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

Looking around the weather seems to have gotten much more severe.

I key word in that is "seems". From what I've read weather events have not gotten more severe, we just hear more about them. They also do more damage and more expensive damage because people are building more and more expensive infrastructure in high risk areas. Add to that people not expecting to endure hardships, or even be inconvenienced, coupled with the declining ability of the populace to take care of themselves and others in a severe weather event, and what used to be normal is now considered catastrophic.

Just as an example, consider New Orleans during Katrina. You have a city, most of which is below the level of the water nearly all the way around it, and almost nobody had a plan for a flood, or a boat of any kind. If I lived there, something that floats would be the #1 item in my emergency kit.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

No, the weather has not got more severe, in general. It is better reported, and there are more people and infrastructure to be affected by it.



There are also a team of professionals whose job is to exaggerate any bad trends and blame climate change for them and feed those stories to a gullible set of clowns in the media to write scary headlines that end up on eng-tips. That sounds like a conspiracy theory, it is not.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Weather_Attrib...
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2021-10-07...
https://www.climatechangecommunication.org (there are others)

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Josh, you need to express climate related deaths as "per capita"...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Even with advanced warning... this could be the beginning of more and greater anomalies...

"Nearly 90 weather-related deaths have been recorded across the US after the country was pummelled by ferocious winter storms for the past week.

The deaths include at least 25 in Tennessee and 16 in Oregon, which remains under a state of emergency following severe ice storms.
Tens of thousands of people also remain without power across wide swathes of the country.

Icy conditions are expected to continue until the middle of the week.

A total of 89 weather-related fatalities have been recorded across the country over the past week, according to a tally maintained by CBS, the BBC's US partner.

While the death toll has been greatest in Tennessee and Oregon, fatalities have also been reported in Illinois, Pennsylvania, Mississippi, Washington, Kentucky, Wisconsin, New York, New Jersey and elsewhere."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-68049923

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

The deaths include at least 25 in Tennessee and 16 in Oregon, which remains under a state of emergency following severe ice storms.
Tens of thousands of people also remain without power across wide swathes of the country.

Icy conditions are expected to continue until the middle of the week.

Do you not see the irony/hypocrisy in using weather events related to unusual cold in order to advocate for cutting CO2 emissions to reduce warming?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Things just got a whole lot more interesting:

"Oil giant ExxonMobil has sued climate activist investors in a bid to prevent their climate proposal from going to a vote at its annual investor meeting.

The complaint is against Follow This and Arjuna Capital, which have called on Exxon to step up the pace of reductions in greenhouse gas emissions.

Exxon says the US and Dutch investors are driven by an "extreme agenda".
It is rare for companies to go to court to block shareholder motions and this is the first time Exxon has done so."

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-68052440

I wonder if the following is likely. For countries with a population of over 100M people, the US has the highest per capita carbon footprint. China's is about half of theirs. The rest of the world (everyone but the US) cuts their per capita footprint, but the US doesn't, because they can't politically. In addition, it's really inconvenient to reduce the carbon footprint and do away with all the luxury items. What's the world to do?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

are we going to skip unlucky "13" ?

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
My brother and I were both born on a Friday 13...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

so was my son ...

"Hoffen wir mal, dass alles gut geht !"
General Paulus, Nov 1942, outside Stalingrad after the launch of Operation Uranus.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

I wonder if the following is likely. For countries with a population of over 100M people, the US has the highest per capita carbon footprint. China's is about half of theirs. The rest of the world (everyone but the US) cuts their per capita footprint, but the US doesn't, because they can't politically. In addition, it's really inconvenient to reduce the carbon footprint and do away with all the luxury items. What's the world to do?

Republicans overturned Roe V. Wade, so I guess they've made some political progress in reducing per capita footprint.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
...by increasing the population. How clever! smile

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Yes, our bodies are reservoirs in which carbon is sequestered. More bodies means more sequestration.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
I was always wondering about the reason for overturning Roe vs. Wade. It's curious how these guys minds work. I'd have never guessed it.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

The rest of the world (everyone but the US) cuts their per capita footprint, but the US doesn't

Do you actually believe this? If so, then you truly have your head in the sand and / or you have zero interest in researching this issue in an honest way. I don't mean this as a personal attack against you. But, I do mean to shame you a little. You are the most vocal person on this Global Warming forum and yet you have such a complete and basic misunderstanding like this?! It's genuinely shocking to me.

Yes, the US probably has the higher per capita CO2 footprint. That's probably because have the highest standard of living (or nearly the highest), the highest economic activity (per capita), and we travel more than any other country (per capita).

However, the US has dramatically reduced it CO2 emissions over the last 20 years or so. See the following site:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/183943/us-carb...

This shows that the US has reduced carbon emissions by 20% over the last 17 years or so. When it had been consistently increasing for the previous 30 years.



The per capita emissions for the US show a much more dramatic reduction. More than 40%.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Everyone has to reduce their carbon footprint. The US has to bring theirs down. If you can imagine the US having a per capita footprint equal to China, there would have to be a huge change. The US is hampered by their legal system to restrict their carbon footprint as noted in the article I referenced. The courts can eliminate the steps forward proposed by the government (as noted in the article).

For a really excellent clip, that explains the carbon footprint very well:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipVxxxqwBQw

It appears the US is reducing their overall carbon footprint at a much greater rate than China, and even higher on a per capita basis. They are no where near the per capita output of China.



The question still remains, "...cuts their per capita footprint, but the US doesn't, because they can't politically. In addition, it's really inconvenient to reduce the carbon footprint and do away with all the luxury items. What's the world to do?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Maybe we need to investigate the carbon footprint of all of these "Things Are Starting to Heat Up" threads. It seems the internet has the same carbon footprint of the aviation transport industry at up to 3.7% of global emissions.

Once a thread is started it goes on to a server that runs perpetually, it's not just a one time cost. Every thread will continue to produce CO2 cumulatively for the foreseeable future.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
picky, picky... the real curves are the increase in CO2 and the correlation of this with temperature. It is likely that the former has to decrease.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

The US is hampered by their legal system to restrict their carbon footprint as noted in the article I referenced. The courts can eliminate the steps forward proposed by the government (as noted in the article).
Well, that's one thing about our judicial system to be thankful for...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
It can be... double edged sword, comes to mind. A really good summary of what happened last year.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/state-of-the-climate-2...

It's a little disconcerting to know that they are having difficulty estimating the effects for 2024 because 2023 was a lot hotter than they anticipated.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

They never get anything right.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

The US doesn't want to be like China. People are clamoring to get into the US. Not many people want to immigrate to China.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

The question still remains, "...cuts their per capita footprint, but the US doesn't"

Dik -

My point is that this statement of yours is either a blatant lie or you're willfully ignorant. The US has definitely reduced it per capita CO2 emissions. Period.

Now, you can argue that the US population is voluntarily reducing our carbon footprints. And, that the US government (state or local) isn't doing anything to reduce the CO2 emissions. This would also be blatantly false, of course. Maybe you believe we should be doing better. That's totally reasonable. But why spread this obvious lie.

Maybe you're spreading complete falsehoods because you believe the US government should have more power over their population to forcibly control how they live? Is that what you're advocating for? I suppose that's what all "climate alarmists" are really advocating for. More government power and less freedom for individuals.

I never really thought the religion of climate science was as much of a neo-marxist power grab as the devotees of "grievance studies". It is certainly a similar concept. That we have to "collectivize" society in a way that solves a problem. Be it climate change, racism, sexism, or whatever. However, I always felt like the motives behind it were a bit more honest. I certainly thought that of you, but these clear and obvious falsehoods are shocking.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Comparing environmental impact on a per-capita basis is dishonest at best, the only real use for such an analysis is to alarm the ignorant. An honest analysis would have some normalization of populations, geographical sizes, and a filtration factor bc obviously deserts arent going to filter pollutants as well as forests.

China geographically is very similar in size to the US but with more than 4x the population. They could have half the per-capita emissions of the US and their total population would still be polluting twice as much....hence why the US is a clean green place and in China both the air and water are often chewably unsafe to ingest.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
The US has reduced its CO2 emissions, but not anywhere near enough. On a per capita basis, you are nearly twice that of China. In addition the legislation for reduction is being threatened by legal action as noted in the article. Making real cuts is going to be a big issue with lots of political interference.

I didn't say anyone wants to be like China... they both need fixing. In China's case there has been a bit of an improvement.

Can the US provide similar curves?





-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (My point is that this statement of yours is either a blatant lie or you're willfully ignorant.)


taken out of context. It was a hypothetical question, "What if the world reduces their carbon footprint and the US refuses to?"

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

taken out of context. It was a hypothetical question, "What if the world reduces their carbon footprint and the US refuses to?"

My apologies.... I genuinely didn't understand that this was a hypothetical.

For what it's worth, I think the high populations in 2nd world countries (i.e. India & China) will likely increase their per Capita CO2 emissions GREATLY over the next couple of decades as they standard of living improves. Same thing with 3rd world countries. If they are prevented from doing so by the 1st world countries, then we are condemning them to systemic poverty and low standard of living.

Quote (Michael Crichton)

The greatest challenge facing mankind is the challenge of distinguishing reality from fantasy, truth from propaganda.

He also said that the West's view on global warming is like rich countries saying to poor countries: “We got ours and we don’t want you to get yours, because you’ll cause too much pollution.”

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
They have, and will... India and China's footprint will slowly increase as they become more and more developed. They have a bit of catching up to get in line with the US. At least China has taken a bit of a whack at reducing poverty... they still have rural 'peasants' in some areas earning less than $2 per day, but they are making great strides.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

they still have rural 'peasants' in some areas earning less than $2 per day, but they are making great strides.

And that's exactly how they achieve their low performance capita CO2.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
And because millions of them have been raised above the poverty line, their carbon footprint continues to grow... The change in US carbon footprint was approx -2% and the Chinese was -0.2% with a population nearly 5x that of the US. Wait until India joins the breadline... it's not looking very positive.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote:

it's not looking very positive.

It depends on what the reader considers positive, I suppose. Millions of people lifted out of poverty would be considered a good thing by some of us.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Don't you see? It doesn't matter if they're lifted out of poverty if they don't have state sponsored access to abortion. Nothing else matters.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (And that's exactly how they achieve their low performance capita CO2.)


and no fossil fueled AC systems and private automobiles likely helps a bit. Their infant mortality rate is nearly identical to the US.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (It depends on what the reader considers positive,)


Their carbon footprint is not looking very positive...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

Their carbon footprint is not looking very positive...

Even that depends on whether the reader considers higher CO2 levels to be a problem. You and some others may think it's the end of the world, but some of us aren't convinced that's the case.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Quote (dik)

And because millions of them have been raised above the poverty line, their carbon footprint continues to grow... The change in US carbon footprint was approx -2% and the Chinese was -0.2% with a population nearly 5x that of the US. Wait until India joins the breadline... it's not looking very positive.

There is always a danger in comparing numbers between a free an open society and one which is totalitarian. Right? China (or Cuba, or Venezuela or such) will never release numbers that they feel make them look bad. So, you cannot really trust the numbers they report as a good comparison to the numbers by countries more like the US.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Maybe architects are getting involved...

https://www.architectmagazine.com/design/the-hotte...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
Josh... I have as much confidence in their data as I do in anyone else... Unless it's reputable, it just data to be reviewed. Notwithstanding who's producing the CO2, the US per capita is nearly 2x that of China... quibbling about if it's 2.1 or 1.9 only detracts from the facts and delays any action. A free society or a totalitarian one... might make a difference. Corrective changes may be brought about more quickly with a totalitarian society. Like so many things, we have to wait and find out...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

"Corrective action" is much, much, much more likely to be taken by an authoritarian society. But, the correction is always meant to benefit the state, not the individual. That's sort of my point. Will the Chinese government take actions to "save the world" from global warming? Probably not unless they see something that benefits China more than the rest of the world.

We've got this pesky thing called "individual freedom" in the west that can prevent the governments from doing whatever they like to their people. China doesn't have that. That's why some 30 million Chinese died from starvation from 1958 to 1962 (the "great leap forward"). And, another 1.5 million in the "cultural revolution". The human misery and death toll that this authoritarian regime has already caused is far, far, far worse than anything that we can expect to happen based on "climate change".

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)

Quote (Will the Chinese government take actions to "save the world" from global warming? Probably not unless they see something that benefits China)


We'll have to see... the Chinese are already taking special action is some cities because they are already polluted and people have to wear masks. Maybe not saving the world, but if they can clean these up, it does benefit the world. Maybe not their intention, but part of the result.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

2
"We've got this pesky thing called "individual freedom" in the west that can prevent the governments from doing whatever they like to their people. "

This post probably will get the boot, but I would not characterize some of the recent shenanigans of US Media, FBI, DOJ and etc like that.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

(OP)
That's why I like the modified Harley slogan, "Live Free and Die." A real big failure of that approach is that they don't teach people that there is a huge responsibility that comes with that freedom.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

Yeah, we need to Cultural Revolution those freedom enjoyers. Maybe send them to the gulags? Holocaust? It certainly won't be a degree or two change in weather that is going to kill them. What or who is going to kill them, dik?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

2
Data centers are expected to double their electricity demand by 2026.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2413830-elect...

Maybe we should stop making permanently preserved forum posts about every adverse weather event that occurs daily within this world?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

" Chinese are already taking special action is (sic:in?) some cities"

Do you mean the wholesale genocide of Uyghurs? Great example, dick

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part XII

You are correct. Jews are also the target of ethnic cleansing, but they are now capable of fighting back because they have their own country, while the Uyghurs in China don't have that capacity.

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