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Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X
13

Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Ocean temperatures are on the increase. This can have a big impact on marine life, like in Texas last week, sargassum growths, or on coral reefs.

"The global sea surface temperatures for both April and May were the highest on record for those calendar months in a series stretching back to 1850. That is according to the HadSST.4.0.1.0 dataset compiled by the Met Office."

https://blog.metoffice.gov.uk/2023/06/16/sea-surfa...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Are things getting interesting in Texas? This could be the future and it could get a lot worse. We just don't know.

"Millions of people in Texas are bracing for extreme temperatures over the weekend just days after a tornado killed three people in the state.
Temperatures have been climbing since Thursday, when a major storm system swept the southern US, also causing deaths in Florida and Mississippi.
Power is out for 400,000 customers in the South as of Friday evening.
Officials warn that the brutal heat will strain power grids as residents run their air conditioners."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65886206

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/06/17/perryton-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Effect of Climate Change on Hurricanes:

"Hurricanes are the most violent storms on the planet. The names of the most damaging ones live on because of the devastation they left in their wake.

Known outside of North America as tropical cyclones or typhoons, hurricanes are essentially massive engines of wind and rain that are fueled by warm ocean water and air.

This heat energy is converted into lashing winds and driving rainfall that can bring devastating impacts when they hit cities, homes and infrastructure.

Over the last two-plus centuries, human activity — mainly the burning of fossil fuels – has added lots of heat to the oceans and air where these storms are spawned.

The 2020 Atlantic hurricane season was the most active on record, and many of the storms that slammed into the Gulf Coast, Central America and the Caribbean this year exhibited hallmark signs that they were supercharged by global warming."

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/12/us/hurrica...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
It's a start; I wonder how far this will go? The governments are doing nothing to 'slow it down'.

"About 40 million people across the southern US are at risk for severe weather Sunday as storms move into the Lower Mississippi Valley and the central Gulf Coast states, bringing the risk of large hail and damaging winds.

There is an enhanced risk of severe weather, considered Level 3 of 5, for an area across the lower Mississippi River Valley, including Arkansas, northern Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and the Florida Panhandle.

The storms will be “fast-moving, including the potential for both supercells and linear/bowing structures,” which typically produce strong wind events, according to the Storm Prediction Center."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/18/weather/severe-stor...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Hokie... something to work on.

"Australia needs to reduce emissions to net zero by 2038 to do ‘fair share’ to contain global heating, analysis shows"

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/1...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Polar ice continues to melt...

"The simple and straightforward answer is yes. It is, in fact, melting. But it’s a bit more complicated than that. You can think of ice sheets or Antarctica and Greenland as a bathtub full of water. And we want to know how much is going into that bathtub and how much is coming out.

So, for instance, snow falling over the ice sheet is like running the faucet. You turn on the faucet, it fills up with water, and then melting when you get a warm atmosphere or a warm ocean, it’s opening up the drain and letting water out. So it’s not just about melting. It’s also about how much snow falls and what the balance is there."

https://scitechdaily.com/we-asked-a-nasa-scientist...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Democracy in action:

"Voters in Switzerland have backed a new climate bill designed to cut fossil fuel use and reach net-zero carbon emissions by 2050.

The government says the country needs to protect its energy security and the environment, as glaciers melt rapidly in the Swiss Alps.

The law will require a move away from dependence on imported oil and gas towards the use of renewable sources.

In Sunday's referendum 59.1% of voters backed the green energy proposals.

Opponents had argued the measures would push up energy prices.

Nearly all of Switzerland's major parties supported the bill, except the right-wing Swiss People's Party (SVP), which triggered the referendum after pushing back against the government's proposals."

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-65946888

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Woohoo! Switzerland will be net zero by 27 years from now! The world is saved! Well, unless they change their minds when they see what it does to their energy prices. Of course, their one tenth of 1% of the human contribution to CO2 emissions, which is somewhat under 3% of the total CO2 going into the atmosphere, is sure to tip the scale.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
They're such a small part of the problem... and their zero carbon event will have little impact. Are you suggesting the Americans just ignore carbon change and just live with the consequences?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe not warming up? This is a little different for Canada in June... Maybe there can be a 'frosty Friday in July'?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

June 18th was the coldest recorded for Seattle area in some 50+ years.

edit: it's called weather.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
and cumulatively, it will be called climate. It may be changing, and maybe not for the best.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

They're such a small part of the problem... and their zero carbon event will have little impact. Are you suggesting the Americans just ignore carbon change and just live with the consequences?

You were the one that decided to tout their 'progress'. I was just pointing out what you admit here - nothing the Swiss do is going to matter.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
They are setting a good example, at very least... maybe somebody else will catch on. Interesting thing down in the American South and the current weather. It will become more interesting if this becomes a weekly occurence.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

They are setting a good example

Well, an example of some kind, perhaps a cautionary example, assuming they follow through. Otherwise, it's just meaningless virtue signaling. Who knows, by 2050 it may be alot colder, and there will be calls to increase CO2 output to stave off the impending ice age.

Interesting that there were no calls to increase fossil fuel usage and CO2 output in the 1970's when global cooling was the crisis du jour. Instead, the 'solution' then was the same - more taxes for more government and more government regulations.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
It's like rolling the climate dice... you have no idea of what might turn up...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (BridgeSmith)

Interesting that there were no calls to increase fossil fuel usage and CO2 output in the 1970's when global cooling was the crisis du jour.

My belief that "greenhouse gases" and "anthropogenic global warming" were not really areas of science back then. It wasn't even until the 80's when we found out about CFCs and their effect on the Ozone layer. My guess is that the ozone layer issue is what really energized the concept of studying human effect on the upper atmosphere.

Prior to that, we were mostly just worried about "acid rain" which was a relatively localized effect near plants that had certain kind of emissions.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (Josh)

My belief that "greenhouse gases" and "anthropogenic global warming" were not really areas of science back then.

The first scientific predictions were in the 60s. This is one of the key papers from 1967, which predicted around 2 degrees C for doubling of CO2:

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/atsc/24...

It took a couple of decades for these ideas to filter thru into the public.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

It's like rolling the climate dice... you have no idea of what might turn up...

I thought the science was settled?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Climate feedback loops:

"Dangerous climate feedback loops are increasing global warming and risk causing a permanent shift away from the Earth’s current climate, according to a new study.

Climate feedback loops are cyclical chain reactions that happen when one change triggers further changes, in a process that keeps on repeating itself. Some of these feedback loops drive down warming, but others amplify it.

Take Arctic ice, for example. Warming temperatures cause sea ice to melt, revealing the dark ocean water beneath. As dark surfaces absorb more heat than reflective surfaces like ice, the ocean warms and more ice melts.

A group of international scientists from institutions including Oregon State University, Exeter University and the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany, pored over climate literature to identify 41 climate feedback loops.

Of these, they found that 27 are driving up global temperatures, according to the study published Friday in the scientific journal One Earth, while just seven are helping to slow the pace of climate crisis."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/02/17/world/climate-feedb...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

A group of international scientists...pored over climate literature to identify 41 climate feedback loops....they found that 27 are driving up global temperatures, according to the study published Friday in the scientific journal One Earth, while just seven are helping to slow the pace of climate crisis."

You would think "scientists" would know that the number of one or the other is inconsequential, but it's the scale of each that matters. Kinda like you can have dozens of small countries with little carbon output, like Switzerland, for instance, promise to cut carbon emissions, and it doesn't mean diddly squat, if China and India do nothing.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
China is a big part of the problem but they are far more advanced than the US for renewable power. They use too much coal, but that's only part of the fossil fuel problem. Their carbon footprint on a per capita basis is less than half the US (they have 5x the US population) and India's (on a per capita basis) is 1/10 the US. Better to clean up your own backyard first and quit using them as an excuse for not doing anything. Catch the following:





-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I'm not a proponent of any heavy-handed regulations to reduce CO2 emissions. My preferred approach is to have a strong private sector economy, capable of providing innovative and timely solutions to the challenges presented by whatever weather events occur, as they present themselves. We (and everyone else) has more immediate challenges than whatever a few degree temperature rise might bring, if it actually happens. Remember, it's only a trend, until it's not.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (I'm not a proponent of any heavy-handed regulations to reduce CO2 emissions.)


I do not know what the future brings, but if voluntary doesn't work, it may come to that. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

"Dangerous climate feedback loops are increasing global warming and risk causing a permanent shift away from the Earth’s current climate, according to a new study.

Yup. Potential "feedback loops" are the bread and butter of those who want to "catastrophize" anthropogenic global warming. The alarmists realize that the idea of slowing warming like we have been just isn't scary enough and isn't enough of a catastrophe to energize public support against CO2 emissions. Ergo they really need these "feedback loops" to advance their political causes.

The far, far, far greater likelihood is that there will be similar "feedback" response from the climate that will partially negate the proposed warming. Greater plant growth (on land and in the oceans). What is this forum where I read that the effect of fungi on CO2 reduction isn't well understood and isn't generally included in climate models? Despite that it is responsible for up to 30% of the overall CO2 absorption on earth.

I still say that CO2 emissions should be reduced as much as we can in a reasonably cost effective way. But, the environmentalists / alarmists generally oppose the most common sense way of doing this while still providing sufficient energy for a vibrant economy.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
That too... you just don't know... and likely lots of snakeoil... and mistakes...pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (we can in a reasonably cost effective way)


There may not be a reasonable cost effective way; there could be some serious life style changes... we just don't know. What happens if the weather the southern US is experiencing becomes a weekly occurance? ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

There may not be a reasonable cost effective way; there could be some serious life style changes... we just don't know. What happens if the weather the southern US is experiencing becomes a weekly occurance?

Nuclear energy is pretty cost effective. It just takes awhile to build it. If we spent 400 billion on building 20 new nuclear plants over the next 20 years to replace coal and fossil fuel plants then that would be a lot more cost effective (in $ per ton of CO2 emissions that were saved) than subsidizing rich people to buy Teslas or put solar panels on their roofs. And, it would provide more power for Air Conditioning so that people can survive hot weather.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I hope we have 20 years... I'm not sure...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

I hope we have 20 years... I'm not sure...

Well, the media thinks that we should all be suffering by now because of climate change. Many Island nations should be completely under water. etc....

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The biggest negative feedback loop in the world is clouds building up over the equator/tropics. This is self regulating, it happens every day, even over the Australian desert, and will expand and contract as needed. The biggest positive feedback is melting of arctic ice, which directly affects the albedo.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I've always wondered what 45C in the shade was like... with the up and coming ENSO, Australia could get real interesting later this year. We'll have to wait and find out.pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Many Island nations should be completely under water. etc....)


Maybe they jumped the gun... we'll have to wait and see... Turning it back may be a little more difficult.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Some of those islands continue to grow. Maybe folks have forgotten how islands were formed.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The "in the shade" temperature was always funny to me. It is a proclamation of ignorance on temperature, heat, and flux. Step discontinuities can't exist in nature so there can't be a significant temperature differential between a sunlit area and an adjacent shaded area. Then again, we don't feel temperature, we feel flux. When you're in the shade you have less radiation heat exposure while maintaining the same convection so it feels cooler despite the temperature being the same.

And this is where my distrust of "climate scientists" originates because every dang one lacks the most basic understanding of our physical world.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (Tug)

And this is where my distrust of "climate scientists" originates because every dang one lacks the most basic understanding of our physical world.

Exactly. E.g. we get told that a temperature change of 2C will cause "billions" of deaths. And yet humans live in temperatures from -20C to +50C. As individuals we experience temperature shifts of 40 degrees across the year, and 20 degree within a day. Yet somehow a gradual overall average increase of 2C over a century going to kill billions. It will be "catastrophe". It will be "insufferable".

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/0...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (The "in the shade" temperature was always funny to me.)


Concur... It was humour for Greg's comment about it being cloudy...lol

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Some of those islands continue to grow. Maybe folks have forgotten how islands were formed.)


We'll have to see if volcanic action can keep up with climate change, I guess...pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Some volcanic activity can be substantial enough to cause climate change.

Guess what also affects climate - clouds. Directly from NASA:

Quote (NASA)

Low, thick clouds primarily reflect solar radiation and cool the surface of the Earth. High, thin clouds primarily transmit incoming solar radiation; at the same time, they trap some of the outgoing infrared radiation emitted by the Earth and radiate it back downward, thereby warming the surface of the Earth...The balance between the cooling and warming actions of clouds is very close although, overall, averaging the effects of all the clouds around the globe, cooling predominates.

So, more warming = more evaporation = more clouds = global cooling. Hmmm...

As GregLocock wrote, it self-regulating, like many other of Earth's processes.

Remember the hole in the ozone layer? Haven't heard much about it recently, have you? The only reason we heard anything about it to begin with is that when we first had satellites to monitor it, it was expanding. Then it started shrinking. Why? The same radiation it blocks, when it does get through, produces a reaction with oxygen, turning it into...you guessed it...OZONE! All that panic, leading to regulations and bans of refrigerants that actually work, and outlawing hairsprays, didn't do diddly squat - the system corrected itself.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

BTW, remember when AOC say the world was going to end in 12 years because of climate change? That was June 2019. Here we are 4 years later. We should all be asking her where she plans to be in eight years (2031) when the world ends?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Some volcanic activity can be substantial enough to cause climate change.)


That too... I hope it diminishes the effects, but it may not.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (BTW, remember when AOC say the world was going to end in 12 years because of climate change?)


and there was a Bible cult that thought it was going to end before now... So what? No need to distract from our current situation.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (As GregLocock wrote, it self-regulating, like many other of Earth's processes.)


It does that for sure... independent of whatever life forms are affected. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Hydrogen may not be all it's cracked up to be... because of the smaller molecule, it more difficult to stop 'leaks'.

"The global warming effect of leaked hydrogen is almost 12 times stronger than CO2, shows a new study by CICERO, a climate research center, published in Communications Earth & Environment.

The study fills a gap in our knowledge about the climate effects of hydrogen, a central technology in the energy transition.

Unlike exhaust from burning coal and gas that contains CO2, burning hydrogen emits only water vapor and oxygen. Rather, it is the leaking of hydrogen from production, transportation and usage that adds to global warming.

Hydrogen is not a greenhouse gas, but its chemical reactions in the atmosphere affect greenhouse gases like methane, ozone, and stratospheric water vapor. In this way, emissions of hydrogen can cause global warming, despite its lack of direct radiative properties."

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-global-potential-hyd...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Improved solar cells:

"Chinese scientists have successfully boosted the efficiency of a new generation solar cell to 28% in a race with foreign rivals who achieved the result in December 2018 and have since pushed that level to 33.2% in April this year.

Not waiting for solar perfection, some Chinese firms, including a company established by China’s leading researcher, already have gone into production of perovskite and silicon tandem solar cells (PSC).

This so-called third-generation solar cell is said to be able to convert 50-75% more sunlight into electricity than the traditional silicon photovoltaic (PV) cell.

The product is also 95% cheaper than the silicon solar cell as its key raw material is methylammonium lead iodide, making it a potential great option for countries that want to switch to solar power to meet their carbon neutrality targets."

https://asiatimes.com/2023/06/china-rushes-to-mark...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
It's a bit of a start... if the government isn't going to act...

"A Surrey woman will take her fight over a local oil drilling permit to the Supreme Court on Wednesday in a challenge that could spell the end of new fossil fuel projects in the UK.

Judges will decide whether permission for oil extraction in Horse Hill was legally granted.

Sarah Finch is challenging the drilling of four oil wells on climate change grounds.

Surrey County Council told BBC News that it followed planning law.

Ms Finch is bringing the case against Surrey County Council on the grounds that it did not consider some climate impacts of burning the oil when it granted planning permission. Environmental lawyers say the landmark case could affect projects nationwide.

The climate impacts in question - called 'downstream emissions' - are the greenhouse gas emissions released when the oil is used. Ms Finch says these are estimated to be 10 million tonnes of carbon dioxide over 20 years."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-65965...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

and there was a Bible cult that thought it was going to end before now... So what? No need to distract from our current situation.

LOL, I don't think anyone cited C02 emissions as the basis for their end of days bible belief. The bible has NOTHING to do with the concept of Anthropogenic Global Warming. Any suggestion of this is merely a deflection / distraction.


"Our Current Situation" is exactly the same as it was when AOC said those things. It is a great example of the exaggeration of this issue for political purposes. "This is our WWII" is what she said, isn't it? Suggesting that we need to completely turn our economy over to our government to solve an existential crises.... Like Nazis, Fascists, Authoritarians trying to take over the world after already conquering most of Europe, Asia and the Pacific. If we kept our head in the sand for 12 years, there is a good chance Hitler would have taken over all of Europe and the middle east.

This current situation is, it's gotten a little warmer without and demonstrable damage from such warming. We're justifiably worried that future warming will cause a good amount of damage. That's VERY, VERY different. Think about South Korea or Taiwan (which live with aggressive, totalitarian neighbors who have nuclear weapons and want to take over their countries). You think Global Warming is more of a realistic threat to the lives of people there than what they're currently dealing with. You think poor people in 3rd world nations care more about global warming than they do about ensuring they (and their children) have access to clean water and such.

Imagine trying to convince folks in Venezuela who are digging through trash, eating rats and bugs that the prospect of another 1 Celsius temperature increase is the most important thing in the world.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Here is another example. They won't rebuild our local power because of "climate change".

https://www.ksbw.com/article/seacliff-pier-may-not...

You have to get to the end of the article to see the real reason:

Quote (The last sentence)

State Parks is grappling with a maintenance backlog of over $1 billion, according to the San Francisco Chronicle.

That's right, they don't have the money and don't want anybody asking why.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
This might be the beginning... This could become a common occurrence.

"Tens of millions in the southern and southwestern United States are under extreme heat advisories. Some cities in Texas have seen temperatures jumping over 45 degrees Celsius. Meteorologist Derek Van Dam takes a look at the forecast for the next 24 hours."

https://www.cnn.com/videos/us/2023/06/21/exp-us-he...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/22/weather/matador-tex...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Using my pre-Obama search technique I have found a clear and specific definition of heat wave:

https://journals.ametsoc.org/view/journals/apme/40...

Currently, the definition is much more vague.

https://www.weather.gov/safety/heat-during

Instead of specific heat indexes it is now "abnormally hot" that triggers a heat wave.

Interesting not, the first article says that they observed heat waves becoming less frequent in the south over their period of study starting in the 1960's.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

and there was a Bible cult that thought it was going to end

That's pretty much what climate armageddonism is. A religious cult screaming Repent! Repent! The end is nigh!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

They don't just scream. They deliberately interfere with commerce by blocking roads, bridges, railways, city centres, etc. There needs to be stricter enforcement of laws against these type activities, with minimum sentencing provisions.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (That's pretty much what climate armageddonism is. A religious cult screaming Repent! Repent! The end is nigh!)


Rather than repent, maybe try to fix? Not being overly religious, I suspect climate armageddon is more likely... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (They don't just scream. They deliberately interfere with commerce by blocking roads, bridges, railways, city centres, etc. There needs to be stricter enforcement of laws against these type activities, with minimum sentencing provisions.)


They threw suffragettes and blacks in prison... problem is still not fixed. How about protestors of any kind? Where do you stop. There is the remote possibility that they may be correct. End of this discussion... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (hokie66)

There needs to be stricter enforcement of laws against these type activities, with minimum sentencing provisions.

The activist magistrates will put a stop to that.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Dik, you forgot to include the Canadian truckers in your list of persecuted.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I didn't forget... that's Turdeau for you...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Is there a need to be concerned? ponder

"Ocean temperatures have been off the charts since mid-March 2023, with the highest average levels in 40 years of satellite monitoring, and the impact is breaking through in disruptive ways around the world.

The sea of Japan is more than 7 degrees Fahrenheit (4 degrees Celsius) warmer than average. The Indian monsoon, closely tied to conditions in the warm Indian Ocean, has been well below its expected strength.

Spain, France, England and the whole Scandinavian Peninsula are also seeing rainfall far below normal, likely connected to an extraordinary marine heat wave in the eastern North Atlantic. Sea surface temperatures there have been 1.8 to 5 F (1 to 3 C) above average from the coast of Africa all the way to Iceland."

https://theconversation.com/ocean-heat-is-off-the-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Improved propulsion for high speed rail.

"A fascinating eVTOL project is about to come out of stealth, showcasing a "breakthrough HyperDrive propulsion technology" that MagLev Aero claims is "dramatically more quiet, efficient, safe, sustainable and emotionally appealing to the mass market."

Representatives from the Boston-based company have made their way to the Paris Air Show, where they're preparing to reveal a very different approach to electric vertical lift aircraft, drawing on the magnetic levitation technology used in high-speed trains.

What we appear to have here is an annular lift fan arrangement. The aircraft's cabin appears to be surrounded by a huge ring-shaped duct, into which at least one large-diameter, many-bladed fan is mounted.

This circular rotor is kept frictionlessly separated from its enclosure using permanent magnets, so it's free to spin when driven. It's driven by a series of distributed, redundant electromagnetic propulsors around the rim."

https://newatlas.com/aircraft/maglev-aero-evtol-pr...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

What we appear to have here is an annular lift fan arrangement. The aircraft's cabin appears to be surrounded by a huge ring-shaped duct, into which at least one large-diameter, many-bladed fan is mounted.

Maybe that's the flying saucers everybody thought were alien spacecraft years ago...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
as long as they're carbon free... There could be some significant changes to air transport. We'll have to wait and see.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Well, we're now past the point of no return. Greta Thunberg quoted a climate scientist that said we only have 5 years to quit using fossil fuels or the destruction of the planet was inevitable. It's now five years and one day later. Sorry folks, we're all doomed.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
There was no time limit on that, other than the five years to 'fix things'. I hope he's wrong... but we'll find out, one way or the other. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Our illustrious Turdeau at work, again.

https://www.design-engineering.com/ottawa-unveils-...

There is very limited green value to aerospace... the kid (his dad was a worse prime minister than he is) doesn't seem to catch on very quickly.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Power grids are taking a beating, it appears:

"Heatwaves are pushing power grids to their brink around the world — a risk that can make an already dangerous situation deadly.

When temperatures spike, people tend to need air conditioning the most. But that can put a lot of pressure on a power grid, potentially triggering a blackout if there isn’t enough electricity on hand. That’s the worst-case scenario grid operators across the world are scrambling to prevent.

Close to 28.8 million people are under heat alerts today in the US. Texas grid operator ERCOT broke its June record for electricity demand on Monday after issuing a “weather watch” for June 15th through 21st and asking residents to voluntarily conserve energy. In Texas and across the border in Mexico, temperatures soared above 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43 degrees Celsius). A state of emergency was briefly declared Tuesday by Mexico’s National Center for Energy Control as electricity supplies dipped to their lowest levels since a 2021 cold snap."

https://www.theverge.com/2023/6/22/23769833/heatwa...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

"Heatwaves are pushing power grids to their brink around the world — a risk that can make an already dangerous situation deadly."

Careful the way you phrase this.... An argument can be made that any "dangerous" situation is being caused by a reluctance to embrace fossil fuels more. Meaning that if we don't have sufficient power to support Air Conditioning demand then we are creating the potential for deaths during heat waves. And, of course, fossil fuels are still the easiest, most cost efficient ways of providing electrical power.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I didn't phrase it, it was the article... and if you read the article or finish reading the intro, there's no confusion...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Still, JoshPlumSE makes a good point. One could argue what's making the heat wave dangerous is the lack of available and affordable energy, which is the result of politicians dictating the shuttering of reliable and cheap fossil fuel power plants, in favor of less reliable and more expensive 'green' energy sources, which in some cases aren't even available yet.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
That's what is causing the problem... you don't want to add more to it. By using fossil fuel power you likely are...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Dik -

The point is that there is a different way of looking at it. Increased heat is only dangerous if people die from it. The reason why people don't die from excess heat today the way they did decades ago is because we have abundant access to AC and energy / power. Ergo if we see increases in deaths due to extreme heat then it is because of TWO causes that occur simultaneously:
a) Extreme heat. One can argue that this is NOT a new event. Or, one can argue that this is occurring more frequently.
b) We don't have sufficient power to protect people from extreme head (i.e. by using air conditioning).

This is one of the things that many climate alarmist miss.... That, despite the fact that we have much greater populations in high risk coastal communities, we've seen deaths due to weather / climate events go down dramatically. Why? Because we have advance human understanding of how to deal with them. This is despite the increase in temperatures that have occurred in the last 100 years. The stats would suggest that this trend (of fewer deaths per capita due to climate events) will likely continue.

This trend was (at least partially) due to how the use of fossil fuels have advanced our lives. Especially in the case of heat deaths and air conditioning. Ergo if the trend reverses and goes up, it is reasonable to suspect that this is due to the climate alarmists preventing us from have the kind of power supply that has saved us from such events in the past.

The logic behind this premise is not all that complicated.

Now, your logic is simple as well. Hotter temperatures due to climate change = deaths due to CO2 emissions. And, I get it. But, the trend of climate related deaths over the last 100 years doesn't seem to agree with that logic. In fact, it directly contradicts it.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Increased heat is only dangerous if people die from it.)


or their lives are seriously disrupted by it... death is not the only criteria. A lack of effort may cause deaths in the future.

This is what Florida looks like... looks pretty ominous to me... We'll see what the end of next year looks like. pipe



-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Careful what you ask for... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

This is what Florida looks like... looks pretty ominous to me...

Well, it looks like Climate Change is real. Which I don't dispute and I know very few people who do. I don't know that it looks ominous. Certainly not Greta Thunberg ("wipe out all humanity") type of ominous. Maybe "I'd prefer to live somewhere a little cooler" is about as far as I'd go. That's not ominous, just mildly inconvenient.

We're talking 2 degrees Celsius. So, that's a change from 75 to 77 degrees not so bad. Even if we're talking 100 to 102 degrees. That's just a little more uncomfortable. But, the humidity is the real problem in Florida, not the temperature.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Changing by 2deg is a little bigger than just going up 2deg. The whole system is energised by that amount of energy, which can have some awesome effects. Whole systems can be affected. We'll likely have to wait and find out what the consequences are... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

That brings up a very good point. All climate studies I have seen talk about 2°C. An increase of 20°C to 22°C is a lot more alarming than an increase of 293K to 295K.

I will no longer interpret the errors as alarmism but instead as ignorance. I truly believe the climate scientists don't understand the most basic of physics and all of the articles posted by dik reinforce that belief.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (I truly believe the climate scientists don't understand the most basic of physics...)


and some people believe in toothfairies. Beliefs can be in error. There's an awful lot of science out there, and our current weather seems to corroborate it. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Josh,
75 to 77 Celsius makes my cup of tea about right. But 100 to 102, that's unrealistic.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Is this the future of hydrogen?

"Alan Finkel, the former chief scientist and author of Australia’s National Hydrogen Strategy, has admitted that hydrogen cars are unlikely to be sold in great numbers because they simply can’t match the convenience and performance of the battery electric car.

Finkel is uniquely placed to make such a judgement, as the author of the landmark hydrogen strategy, and as an owner of both an EV, and one of the few owners in Australia of a hydrogen electric car: He drives a Toyota Mirai.

In an interview this week with the Energy Insiders podcast, on The Driven’s sister site RenewEconomy, Finkel says it is now clear that hydrogen will not be used in reticulated gas systems for home heating or home cooking, because of its expensive and because of the difficulty, and the slowness with which the industry has moved."

https://thedriven.io/2023/06/23/nothing-can-compet...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Problems may occur a little earlier?

"Across the world, rainforests are becoming savanna or farmland, savanna is drying out and turning into desert, and icy tundra is thawing. Indeed, scientific studies have now recorded “regime shifts” like these in more than 20 different types of ecosystem where tipping points have been passed. Across the world, more than 20% of ecosystems are in danger of shifting or collapsing into something different.

These collapses might happen sooner than you’d think. Humans are already putting ecosystems under pressure in many different ways – what we refer to as stresses. And when you combine these stresses with an increase in climate-driven extreme weather, the date these tipping points are crossed could be brought forward by as much as 80%.

This means an ecosystem collapse that we might previously have expected to avoid until late this century could happen as soon as in the next few decades. That’s the gloomy conclusion of our latest research, published in Nature Sustainability."

https://theconversation.com/ecological-doom-loops-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Fish and chips, anyone... well, maybe chips?

"But then, amid the revelry, a solemn procession appeared. Two dozen festivalgoers carried a series of blown-up photographs into the sea. They were portraits by the artist Gideon Mendel of people, many of them from the global south, standing amid the floods that had overturned their lives. Suddenly, in the face of their fates, the sea seemed not so benign after all. It was a reminder that sea levels are rising around the world; and that here in the UK we face our own potential disaster – the drastic sudden warming of the sea off Britain and Ireland.

It is one of this year’s nastier surprises. Sea temperatures are up to 5C higher than usual, in part due to human-induced global heating, and in part as a result of this year’s El Niño effect. It is a mortal reminder of how the sea dominates our entire planet – that a cycle of warm water in the distant Pacific should impact so severely on our local shores. As water temperatures reach an all-time high, the direct effect on wildlife – from seagrass to oysters and fish – will be devastating, the way “wildfires take out huge areas of forest”, as one scientist says."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Australia is to get some much needed rain next week.

"A 3000km rain band is forecast to engulf Australia next week, bringing parts of the country a season’s worth of rain in just a few days.

A 3000-kilometre rain band is forecast to engulf Australia next week, stretching from the Pilbara and Kimberly, across the outback and to the eastern seaboard, bringing with it soaking rains.

The upcoming drenching follows a week of above-average rain and below-average temperatures in the southern states.

Rain fell across the entirety of the southeast in the 48 hours to the weekend, including 48mm that landed on Adelaide, 100mm on the Mount Lofty Ranges and 28mm on Narrabri.

It has made for the wettest start to winter in decades for some towns in the Murray Basin, including Shepparton, where the monthly rainfall total exceeded 100mm for the first time in a winter calendar month since 1991."

https://www.news.com.au/technology/environment/a-s...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

It will be very welcome if it gets as far north as Queensland. We are dry here, as is usual for this time of the year. But what is your point? Australian weather is what it is. Land of drought and flooding rains. Ever it has been, and ever will be.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe more on the way...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Oppressive heat...

"More than 50 million people across the south from Arizona to Louisiana are under “oppressive” heat Sunday, and about as many people across the Ohio, Tennessee, and Mississippi valleys are under a threat of severe storms.

The heat alerts include much of Texas as well as parts of Arizona, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, and Tennessee, according to the National Weather Service.

“The heat will be oppressive with widespread high temperatures exceeding 100 degrees and heat indices as high as 120 degrees,” according to the Weather Prediction Center, noting “heat indices may exceed 120 degrees in some locations in South Texas.”

Dangerously high temperatures are forecast to expand into the central Plains and Middle and Lower Mississippi Valley by the middle of the week."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/25/us/severe-storm-exc...

Just as a caution... I "sous vide" steaks at 55C... it takes an hour, but they are medium rare... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Here in Oklahoma we just call it "summer" :)

OK, some observations and speculations:

Last Saturday (17th) midnight here in Tulsa a strong windstorm caused widespread damage to trees and structures, of course knocking out the electrical power to thousands in the area, including myself. Got it back Friday evening. Thank the Lord.

Now, starting last Sunday line crews from all over the country, some from as far as New Jersey, started mobilizing to the area to assist the local utility with repairs. Almost all repairs wee completed within one week. Almost all, unfortunately.

I am now imagining our glorious all electric future when all the heavy trucks and all the power equipment such as chain saws and so forth are battery powered.

HOW LONG does it take to mobilize several states away? HOW LONG does it take to clear away the downed trees and other debris so that the repairs can be made? HOW, in our glorious all-electric future does this get done AT ALL when the grid is down over a large area?

Speculation: NOBODY KNOWS

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I guess we'll have to wait and see... ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

Changing by 2deg is a little bigger than just going up 2deg.

OMG.... Total brain fart on my part.

It's 2 degrees Celsius total change. So, that's from 100 years ago to now, I believe. So, 2 degrees *9/5 = 3.6 degree total. If we've seen 1 degree F change already, then it's only about another 3 degrees F.

Quote (dik)

Across the world, rainforests are becoming savanna or farmland, savanna is drying out and turning into desert, and icy tundra is thawing.

Overall, the world is greener now than it was 100 or 50 years ago. This is probably due to human action (cultivation, farming, gardens, lawns, etc). But, it appears to be the case in areas that are not very inhabited. Overall, that's a good thing. More plant life = more CO2 removal. More plant life = more food sources for animals. It means barren landscapes becoming more fertile and diverse.

Regarding rainforests becoming deserts that is (I believe) due to intentional deforestation. Where people burn down the rain forest so they can grow crops there. But, the soil isn't very fertile and only produces for a few brief years. So, they move on to the next area of forest to burn. Terrible environmental disaster / management. But, it genuinely isn't caused by CO2 emissions,

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"I guess we'll have to wait and see..."

Doesn't sound like a plan to me.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Doesn't sound like a plan to me.)


For the possible seriousness of the problem, people don't appear to be concerned or acting on it... guess we'll just have to wait and hope best or live with what happens.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (it seems likely that heatwaves aren't necessarily linked to CO2. I'd be inclined to cal them weather.)


Maybe not directly, but they might be related, at least a little bit, to changes in climate.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Changing by 2deg is a little bigger than just going up 2deg.)


Going up 3.6deg is a little bigger than just going up 3.6deg... It's all the good stuff that comes from the increase in temperature... including more humidity, more violent storms, and other changes.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

For the possible seriousness of the problem, people don't appear to be concerned or acting on it... guess we'll just have to wait and hope best or live with what happens.

The problem is that every action you suggest is going to cause serious problems. We can wait and adapt to environmental changes but the rapid replacement of carbon based energy is only going to cause death. Ironically, due to extreme cold.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Just a caution... not doing anything could be a lot uglier...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

It's already a proven fact that cooler than normal temps result in more deaths than warmer than normal temps.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik )

For the possible seriousness of the problem, people don't appear to be concerned or acting on it... guess we'll just have to wait and hope best or live with what happens.

I'd consider making adjustments, but not until the climate alarmists start. As long as the people trying to sell us on a climate crisis are still flying all over in their private jets, and building mansions on the coasts they claim will underwater soon, I'm not going to take them seriously, and I'm certainly not going to make sacrifices to my meager lifestyle in order to follow their directives. I also will not advocate for those directives to be made mandatory on anyone else.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (Josh)

Overall, the world is greener now than it was 100 or 50 years ago. This is probably due to human action

A large part of it is no longer harvesting wood for fuel. A lot of cover has grown back now that we've switched to fossil fuels. The climate zealots are doing their best to reverse this trend, pushing for "biofuels" (i.e. trees) to replace fossil fuels. For reasons no-one's yet managed to explain, burning a tree that died a 50 million years ago is considered so much much worse than cutting down a happy living tree and burning it. Dead tree = "dirty". Living tree = "clean and renewable".

The 30% increase in CO2 due to our CO2 emissions has also caused signifcant increase in plant growth. This has proved a major headache for the alarmists. Their scientists have been hard at work trying to show how an increase in plant growth and higher associated yields is bad bad thing.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Carbon change can be pricey...

"By putting a price on the cost of carbon, the Government of Canada aims to curtail greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, but it comes with an increased risk for financial lenders and borrowers with high carbon emissions.

In a first-of-its-kind study, University of Waterloo researchers analyzed the effects of Canada's carbon price regime on the economy. The results indicate that as carbon costs rise, high-emitting carbon industries such as mining and energy are at the greatest risk of default, with total assets of $256 billion at risk of being lost and almost a quarter of the Canadian GDP exposed to climate risk."

https://phys.org/news/2023-06-canada-carbon-pricin...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (It's already a proven fact that cooler than normal temps result in more deaths than warmer than normal temps.)


That could change...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (The 30% increase in CO2 due to our CO2 emissions has also caused signifcant increase in plant growth.)


The CO2 levels seem to increase. The increased plant growth doesn't seem to be working so well. A huge carbon sink provided by the Amazon rainforest is diminishing.... dunno, I'm not so sure. ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Tomfh -

Are Biofuels really trees? The biodiesels that I read about aren't trees, but plants and bushes.... maybe waste products from farming and such.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Dik,

The story about Canada just shows that your country is a leader in destroying its own economy.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I don't know hokie... the scary part is that it may be an issue all countries have to face in the not to distant future.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Whoda thought they would underestimate things? What else are they underestimating?

"A critical federal analysis of extreme rainfall is vastly underestimating the chances of flood events, with grave implications for everything from new roads and bridges to the rising cost of flood insurance, according to a new analysis.

Intense rain events, like atmospheric rivers and torrential, training thunderstorms, are quickly making the idea of a “1-in-100-year flood event” obsolete, according to the report from First Street Foundation, a non-profit focused on weather risk research.

It found half the American population lives in a county where a 1-in-100-year flood is at least twice as likely now as it had been in the past, coming once every 50 years, on average, rather than 100.

The problem: The federal rainfall analysis, which is managed by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, is updated infrequently and has not kept up with the climate crisis, which is intensifying precipitation events."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/us/extreme-flood-ri...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

What else are they underestimating?

Well, "they" have a history of overestimating risk by an insanely huge margin.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe not this time...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe we're not doing so well...

"LONDON, June 26 (Reuters) - Global energy demand rose 1% last year and record renewables growth did nothing to shift the dominance of fossil fuels, which still accounted for 82% of supply, the industry's Statistical Review of World Energy report said on Monday.

Last year was marked by turmoil in the energy markets after Russia's invasion of Ukraine, which helped to boost gas and coal prices to record levels in Europe and Asia."

https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/renewables...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Australia may be trying to emulate Texas... like so many things... we'll have to wait and find out.

"Australians should brace themselves for hot and dry conditions through the upcoming summer and late winter period as experts predict the high likelihood of an El Nino weather cycle returning this year.

With global ocean temperatures and fluctuations in wind circulation steadily on the rise, forecasts are that Australia will experience high heat and bare minimum rainfall, contrasting the wet conditions brought on by the last unusual years-long cycle of La Nina."

https://www.skynews.com.au/australia-news/weather/...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Australia and Texas have historically had similar weather...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Not sure why anyone should be surprised about El Nino and La Nina cycles. Australia's weather has little to do with Texas, but lots to do with California. When Australia is wet, California is dry, and vice versa. Doesn't always follow that simply, but over time, that's the way it works. The "never-seen-before" headline is BS.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Some good news... but a little more is needed:

"Wind and solar power has generated more electricity than coal for the first time ever in the U.S, according to new federal data.

Wind and solar sources produced a combined 252 terawatt-hours in the first five months of 2023, compared with coal's output of 249 TWh, data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA) seen by E&E News has revealed. This marks the very first time that renewable energy has outperformed coal without including hydroelectric power in the count.

The milestone is a consequence of the continuing decline of coal usage in the U.S., as coal facilities shut down and are replaced by renewable energy and natural gas energy sources. At its peak in 2007, coal accounted for 49.9% of the U.S.'s energy production."

https://www.livescience.com/planet-earth/renewable...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Australia and Texas have historically had similar weather...)


They should keep an eye on the weather news from Texas to get an idea of what they might be in for...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"You know what they say about the weather in Texas? If you don't like it wait a few minutes."

Apparently this is an adaptation of a quote in Field and Stream magazine circa 1909. Don't tell me they had extreme weather back then, too.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Yes... I guess it could get worse...

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/weather/heat-texas-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Regarding an earlier comment about how forests were doing.

"An area of tropical forest the size of Switzerland was lost last year as tree losses surged, according to new research.

It means that a political pledge to end deforestation made at COP26 by world leaders is well off track.

Some 11 football pitches of forest were lost every minute in 2022, with Brazil dominating the destruction.

But a sharp reduction in forest loss in Indonesia shows that reversing this trend is achievable."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66013...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

And why are we losing so much forest? Does it have nothing to do with sustainable palm oil production?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Those biomass plants need to be burning plastic waste, not trees!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The only problem with burning plastic for energy is that plastic is a petroleum product, so that's also burning fossil fuels. Therefore, the 'green energy' crowd will be against it.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

All of those facemasks would make an excellent fuel. Their blown filament construction and breathability will promote more complete combustion and they are of polypropylene construction which doesn't produce acid gasses when burned.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I hope they are correct, but I think this is just a marketing ploy to make more money...

"In a surprising shift within the energy industry, major fossil fuel players are boldly asserting that natural gas will play a pivotal role in the transition to a greener future, Bloomberg reported. Industry leaders such as Shell and Chevron are ramping up investments in natural gas, challenging the perception that it is a short-term bridge to renewable energy sources. This shift marks a turning point for natural gas, once seen as a temporary solution. Now, gas demand is expected to persist for decades to come."

https://www.wionews.com/business-economy/fossil-fu...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

:)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (Dik)

I hope they are correct, but I think this is just a marketing ploy to make more money...

If we're talking about replacing Coal Power with Natural Gas, then it's probably the most cost effective way to reduce CO2 emissions today. But, that REQUIRES that we shut down those coal plants. Otherwise, it's just adding more power to our grid (which might also be necessary).

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Many power plants in the US have been converted from coal to run on natural gas. So far, because of fracking, the gas supply has been keeping up.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I don't know how CO2 output per BTU is for coal vs. natural gas or oil is. The switch from coal may not be any better if it has a higher BTU rating for the same CO2. Coal is just ugly, and more visible. It is a political issue too, to prevent doing anything about the carbon footprint.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Many power plants in the US have been converted from coal to run on natural gas. So far, because of fracking, the gas supply has been keeping up.)


None of this is good... pipe

This is not according to the numbers; the world is still using more coal... when you consider the population of China is 5x that of the US. That would put the US at 1.5 compared to China's 1.05... Both numbers should be on the otherside of the vertical line (ordinate), like Australia... they, however, may be selling the stuff to others, and are maybe not any better.



-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Dik, natural gas emits 41% of the CO2 of coal per MWh on average. However, combined cycle power plants can run on natural gas and are substantially more efficient than conventional so as more of the conventional gas plants are replaced my combined cycle that number can go even lower.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Thanks, didn't know that... then natural gas is not the worst of the fossil fuels.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

In terms of carbon it's far from the worst, it's the best. It's mostly comprised of methane which has a 4:1 ratio of hydrogen to carbon. Anthracite coal is 1:2.7 hydrogen to carbon.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Yeah. It's like 1/8 or less the amount of carbon. It's even better when you consider environmental pollutants. Because natural gas burns so darn clean. CO2 and water and that's pretty much it!

If you had natural gas cars it would be a LOT more difficult to get carbon monoxide poisoning in your garage.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
More disruption with unknown effects. More acronyms...

"A large-scale atmospheric phenomenon is currently changing its phase high in the atmosphere. Called “the heartbeat of the atmosphere,” it has a known effect on the Winter weather and will combine its influence with the El Nino event to impact the weather patterns in the 2023/2024 Winter season.

This atmospheric phenomenon is called Quasi-Biennial Oscillation (QBO short), a changing wind anomaly in the tropical stratosphere. Its presence has been well known for many decades, and it plays its role in the Winter season pattern development."

https://www.severe-weather.eu/long-range-2/winter-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (In terms of carbon it's far from the worst, it's the best.)


I've always been aware that the 'lesser of two evils' is still an evil. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I thought we had finally made some progress.

"Never let perfection be the enemy progress".

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (If you had natural gas cars it would be a LOT more difficult to get carbon monoxide poisoning in your garage.)


and people still die of CO failure from heating systems, too, even with natural gas. Albeit, fewer of them.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Sorry Tug, the CO2 hasn't peaked, yet. I don't see any progress. Things may still get a lot worse. Texas may be experiencing the beginning of something that could get a lot worse. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

It seems like you are advocating a 400% increase in CO2 to yield a "we will see reduction" within the next 50 years vs our ability to absolutely reduce our CO2 production by 60% within the next 50 years. Your goal is something bigger than CO2 reduction. That is obvious.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I'm not advocating any increase in CO2, and would like to see a reduction. With possible 'tipping points' I don't think you should be looking at time periods of 50 years. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Yes, you are advocating an increase in CO2 because you expect us to replace 100 years worth it fossil fuel infrastructure in 10 years using fossil fuel infrastructure. That will spike our fossil fuels consumption. If there is a tipping point that doesn't seem to be your concern.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Sorry guy, I'm not advocating an increase in CO2. Things are going to have to change, in the use of fossil fuels, to get the reduction.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Yes, the change is shifting from coal to gas. Shifting from fossil fuels to renewables isn't helping. Remember, even solar cells have a 20 year payoff with only a 25 year life expectancy. How is that a win?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe people have to cut back on their use of power? I don't think there is an easy solution.

Solar cells are a work in progress, albeit maybe not fast enough.

"The findings appear in the journal Matter, in a paper by MIT research scientist Shijing Sun, MIT professors, Moungi Bawendi, John Fisher, and Tonio Buonassisi, who is also a principal investigator at the Singapore-MIT Alliance for Research and Technology (SMART), and 16 others from MIT, Germany, Singapore, Colorado, and New York.

Perovskites are a broad class of materials characterized by the way atoms are arranged in their layered crystal lattice. These layers, described by convention as A, B, and X, can each consist of a variety of different atoms or compounds. So, searching through the entire universe of such combinations to find the best candidates to meet specific goals — longevity, efficiency, manufacturability, and availability of source materials — is a slow and painstaking process, and largely one without any map for guidance.

“If you consider even just three elements, the most common ones in perovskites that people sub in and out are on the A site of the perovskite crystal structure,” which can each easily be varied by 1-percent increments in their relative composition, Buonassisi says. “The number of steps becomes just preposterous. It becomes very, very large” and thus impractical to search through systematically. Each step involves the complex synthesis process of creating a new material and then testing its degradation, which even under accelerated aging conditions is a time-consuming process."

https://news.mit.edu/2021/prevoskite-lifetime-sola...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Ok, so we admit that solar cells are a work in progress. Regardless they are certainly not a solution. They have a marginal payoff within their life expectancy and that doesn't include the support technology that doesn't even exist yet.

The rest of your post doesn't have any substance worth commenting on.

Yes, people need to cut consumption but the greening of the grid is leading to the opposite result.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

There was no geoengineering 14k years ago when our Earth has a maximum ice level...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
but, we've accomplished in decades, what previously took millennia.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

On that we agree. Our accomplishments in the 20th century, and the first part of the 21st, are amazing.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
There may be an unanticipated 'down side' to our progress... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

then natural gas is not the worst of the fossil fuels

Depends who you ask. Methane has a low carbon content so combustion produces little PM or smog, but is often claimed to be the worst for the ozone layer.

Quote:

There was no geoengineering 14k years ago when our Earth has a maximum ice level...

Unless you believe in ancient aliens or the various theories about Atlantis, Egypt, etc.

I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen any accusations of climate change causing OceanGate's sinking yet.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Something for the US to emulate:

"China is shoring up its position as the world leader in renewable power and potentially outpacing its own ambitious energy targets, a report has found.

China is set to double its capacity and produce 1,200 gigawatts of energy through wind and solar power by 2025, reaching its 2030 goal five years ahead of time, according to the report by Global Energy Monitor, a San Francisco-based NGO that tracks operating utility-scale wind and solar farms as well as future projects in the country."

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/29/chin...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Depends who you ask. Methane has a low carbon content so combustion produces little PM or smog, but is often claimed to be the worst for the ozone layer.)


Not just the ozone layer; it is a much worse greenhouse gas than CO2 is.

"Methane (CH4) is a greenhouse gas. It is the second-most abundant greenhouse gas after carbon dioxide (CO2). Although methane is emitted in smaller quantities than carbon dioxide, its global warming potential is around 25 times that of CO2. This means that it is more effective in trapping heat. Fortunately, methane has a short lifespan – emissions only last for about 10–12 years in the atmosphere. Making methane reductions now will have a significant impact in our lifetimes."

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
@Greg... "Or there may not be. What a stupid statement. How does it progress engineering solutions to climate change?"

Did you really make that statement? ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen any accusations of climate change causing OceanGate's sinking yet.)


That was malfeasance of another sort...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Further to the deforestation comment earlier:

"Despite global commitments to halt the loss of tropical forests, the world lost 10% more primary rainforest in 2022 than it did the year before.

Why it matters: The world's tropical rainforests are a vast terrestrial carbon sink, but they are in jeopardy from logging, agricultural expansion and the effects of climate change, which is altering precipitation patterns."

https://www.axios.com/2023/06/27/deforestation-hot...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Future of fossil fuels?

"DNV, a major global risk management company, has come to the common conclusion that solar PV power will get so cheap that it will eventually dominate new electricity capacity and production. “In 2050, solar PV will be in unassailable position as the cheapest source of new electricity globally,” the company stated in its annual global energy report. Naturally, some would say that this will happen well before 2050, and is already starting to happen, but the “unassailable” part is on the way still.

To put that word into numbers, DNV expects coal to have 4% of the market by then and fossil gas to have 8% market share. And that’s regarding electricity generation! DNV’s not talking about new power installation capacity with those figures. By 2050, DNV expects 70% of the world’s electricity to be coming from variable renewables (wind and solar) and expects fossil fuels to account for just 10% of electricity production."

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/06/28/solar-will-re...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (CWB1)

I'm a bit surprised we haven't seen any accusations of climate change causing OceanGate's sinking yet.

It was the additional depth due to sea level rise that exceeded the hull's pressure rating.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Yup... with a little malfeasance sprinkled in... reconsidered... 'with a lot of ...'. I was being too kind.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (TugboatEng)

There was no geoengineering 14k years ago when our Earth has a maximum ice level...
Nor was there an agenda that needed support.


Quote (dik)

Future of fossil fuels?
Since there are no "fossil fuels" there is no future for them.
That term is the agenda's catch word, and nothing more.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Nor was there an agenda that needed support.)


...and the population was approx 4,000,000 too. It's now about 8,000,000,000 or about 2,000 times as great.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (ince there are no "fossil fuels" there is no future for them.)


We've been through this already and I've posted links stating there are. I wish I had a horsesh*t emoji...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
This is a step in the right direction, albeit a small one.

"Effective as of May, the BC Building Code introduced changes to require better energy efficiency in most new buildings in the province, and either encourage or require lower carbon emissions in new buildings.

The newly introduced changes to the BC Energy Step Code require 20 per cent better energy efficiency for most new buildings in the province. Further, the new Zero Carbon Step Code provides tools for local governments in the province to encourage or require lower emissions in new buildings."

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Solar Power...

"There’s no doubt about it — China leads the world in solar power growth and Spain leads the world in solar power as a share of electricity — but India deserves some praise, too. Asian giant #2 had its biggest year for solar power growth — and it wasn’t even close."

https://cleantechnica.com/2023/06/29/solar-82-of-p...




-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

But the models say...

LOL

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Things are staying warm in Texas... can the world be far behind? Is this just the beginning?

"Record-breaking heat is becoming the new normal in Texas, an analysis of temperature data by The Texas Tribune shows, as climate change steadily warms the planet and shifts the range of typical temperatures higher.

A dangerous heat wave this month has brought three weeks of 100-degree temperatures from the state’s border with Mexico all the way to the Dallas-Fort Worth area. The heat wave has shattered records and prompted excessive heat warnings across most of the state.

Such heat waves — and the record-breaking temperatures they bring — are becoming more common and severe due to climate change, scientists told the Tribune.

Over the last 10 years, there were more than 1,600 days when a heat record was matched or broken at one of 22 weather stations across Texas. That’s more than 1,000 more record-breaking days than the 561-day average at those stations in the decades prior to 2013, the Tribune’s analysis found."

https://www.texastribune.org/2023/06/27/texas-clim...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

Things are staying warm in Texas... can the world be far behind?

Yes. Texas is not the world.

Quote (dik)

Is this just the beginning?

Maybe, maybe not. It could be the end.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

:)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Clarification about Greta:

"A Harvard University professor warned in 2018 that steps were needed over the next five years to reduce carbon pollution to preserve Arctic ice. Climate activist Greta Thunberg then shared a tweet that misquoted the professor. But recent social media posts have distorted Thunberg’s tweet to falsely claim she predicted human extinction by 2023."

https://www.factcheck.org/2023/06/viral-posts-dist...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Well, she was guilty of the misquote. So she earned the ridicule.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

Things are staying warm in Texas... can the world be far behind? Is this just the beginning?

"Record-breaking heat is becoming the new normal in Texas, an analysis of temperature data by The Texas Tribune shows, as climate change steadily warms the planet and shifts the range of typical temperatures higher.

An indepth analysis of the temperatures by a left leaning "climate scientist" "journalist" based in Austin? I am sure that was researched with an open mind.

We had a mild spring here in central TX. It's warm now, but it doesn't seem that bad. We've had rain to cool things off some days. I wonder how many people complaining about the heat are still wearing their covid protocol face masks? That will get you hot, and I do see people still doing that in the Austin area..

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Effect of forest fires:

"The world’s most northerly forests could be a “time bomb” of planet-warming pollution as expanding wildfires have released record high levels of planet-heating pollution into the atmosphere, according to a new study.

Using new satellite data analysis techniques, researchers found that, since 2000, summer wildfires have expanded in boreal forests, which wrap around the northernmost parts of the Earth.

Boreal forest fires usually make up 10% of global wildfire-related carbon pollution. But in 2021, their contribution soared to 23%, according to the study, as extreme drought and heatwaves in Siberia and Canada helped drive intense fires.

“Boreal forests could be a time bomb of carbon, and the recent increases in wildfire emissions we see make me worry the clock is ticking,” said study author Steven Davis, a professor of earth system science at the University of California at Irvine, in a press release."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/02/world/boreal-forest...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I wonder where the decades of forest mis-management RE: fire prevention fits in, at least in California's wildfire problems.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
or raking the forest floor... pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe some big changes happening to shipping...

"The massive shipping industry is responsible for transporting nine-tenths of our goods around the world.

But it doesn't yet have a goal for cutting emissions to "net zero".

A UN summit starting on Monday hopes to change that.

Reaching "net zero" would mean that any remaining shipping emissions were matched by actively removing greenhouse gases from the atmosphere. Some delegates want this to happen by 2050 and for emissions to be halved by 2030.
...
These vessels often burn highly polluting fuels which contribute as much as 3% of the world's global carbon dioxide emissions, roughly the same amount as that of Germany or 243 coal plants."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66064...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I guess we'll have to wait and see...

:)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

A UN Summit rarely changes anything, so I wouldn't put too many eggs in that basket. Sail power, perhaps?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Reduce the speed of the ships by 30% and you'll halve their fuel consumption. You will of course need to build 30% more ships.

Meanwhile 'they' are developing a new sort of private jet that will fly at M1.6 , which will of course use 3 times as much fuel as the current ones. But that's OK, somehow we need to get the climate conference attendees to their nice holiday resorts.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

dik
"Raking the forest floor"

I spent some years in the past doing just that. That is what a huge rake is for on a large 40 to 75 ton bulldozer.
Goes to show the ignorance of the ones that have no idea of how to manage to forests.

Here is one example of a rake that I'm talking about. There are others not so wide and fit better in areas of large trees.
This is a lot more healthier than purposely burning, as many animals can get away. Prescribed burning is beyond belief, and
has many times turned into huge out of control wild fires.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qNugQgI_DE

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe they won't need really long extension cords. I don't know, but maybe it is a work in progress.

"A new invention from researchers at MIT could help the aviation industry shrink its carbon footprint immensely. The invention would finally allow larger aircraft to take full advantage of electronic motors, which has only been possible with small all-electric plans previously. That’s because the megawatt motors needed to lift a larger aircraft off the ground are difficult to create without overloading the plane.

Now, though, MIT researchers may have finally found a way to, at the least, make a hybrid system that utilizes both an electrical component with a gas turbine aero-engine. The 1-megawatt motor that these MIT researchers are working on could be a very important stepping stone to creating an all-electric aircraft somewhere down the line."

https://bgr.com/science/mit-invented-a-new-megawat...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
High speed trains...

"China's next-generation high-speed train has set a new record as it sped at 281 miles (453 km) per hour during a test run, EurAsian Times reported. Its relative speed, when two trains move in the opposite direction, reached a mind-blowing 553 miles (891 km) per hour.

High-speed rail systems offer a highly efficient mode of transport to haul people and cargo between destinations. In an age when countries are looking to reduce their carbon emissions, electrified and energy-efficient trains can offer eco-friendly alternatives to air transport.

By clocking at higher speeds, trains can further reduce the time deficit of travel between the two modes of transport. For instance, the distance between the capital city of Beijing and Shanghai could take only 2.5 hours on a train traveling 248 miles (400 km) an hour, similar to what a flight typically takes."

https://interestingengineering.com/innovation/worl...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Renewables and Texas...

"Renewable energy is helping to keep electricity costs from skyrocketing in Texas as the state sweats beneath a heat dome.

The big picture: The heat dome is toppling records. Multiple locations in Texas set monthly and all-time temperature highs last week.

And with air conditioners humming relentlessly, the state hit a new record for electricity usage on June 27.
Meanwhile, Texas' renewable energy production also climbed to new highs amid outages from a large number of fossil-fuel plants."

https://www.axios.com/2023/07/05/texas-heatdome-re...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The high electricity demand is not likely the result of higher temperatures but instead the moronic shift to electric natural gas compressors.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Something to look forward to and something to remember of the past?

"Surprise! This summer is extremely hot.

How hot? July 4 was the hottest day on Earth since record-keeping began more than 40 years ago, according to scientists at the University of Maine’s Climate Reanalyzer project. As Americans grilled burgers and set off fireworks, the global average temperature reached 62.9 degrees Fahrenheit (17.2 degrees Celsius).

And that’s just the average — this week in New York City the heat index neared 100 degrees. That’s nothing compared to the 120-degree temperatures that baked parts of Texas in late June, smashing dozens of records, straining the power grid, and sending thousands of Texans to the emergency room with heat-related ailments. More than a dozen people in the state have died.

There’s little relief elsewhere. On one day at the end of June, more than 120 million Americans were under some form of heat advisory, according to the National Weather Service. That’s more than one in every three people."

https://www.vox.com/climate/2023/7/5/23784587/hott...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
...and even Australia may join in.

"An El Niño event has arrived, according to the World Meteorological Organization, raising fears of record high global temperatures, extreme weather and, in Australia, a severe fire season.

The El Niño is a reminder that bushfires are part of Australian life – especially as human-caused global warming worsens. But there are a few important considerations to note.

First, not all El Niño years result in bad bushfires. The presence of an El Niño is only one factor that determines the prevalence of bushfires. Other factors, such as the presence of drought, also come into play.

And second, whether or not this fire season is a bad one, Australia must find a more sustainable and effective way to manage bushfires. The El Niño threat only makes the task more urgent."

https://theconversation.com/its-official-australia...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

July 4 was the hottest day on Earth since record-keeping began more than 40 years ago, according to scientists at the University of Maine’s Climate Reanalyzer project.

Why does the time since record keeping began seem to be getting shorter and shorter?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

The El Niño is a reminder that bushfires are part of Australian life

Bushfires are essential for turning biomass into CO2 and preventing it from becoming CH4.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"Why does the time since record keeping began seem to be getting shorter and shorter?" Because they are using the satellite temperature record now, rather than the instrumental record. It's probably a better solution but has its own problems.

https://www.carbonbrief.org/major-correction-to-sa...

One advantage to the chicken little crowd is that it captures the Arctic better than land based thermometers, and since that's where most of the warming is, you get a stronger global trend. The other difference over sea is that it measures temperature somewhat above the surface of the sea, the old records used jars thrown into the sea, or engine coolant intake temperature, hence were measuring the temperature underwater.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I liked the name quoted in dik's thread..."Climate Reanalyzer project". At least they are honest about their intent.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
If you look at the temperature 'bar code' for Australia for the last 130 years, there appears to be a bit of a shift...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

It was hot here a couple days ago, but less so now :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Still cold here. We're 30 degrees below normal this week. I think we've only been above 80 a few days so far this year. Weather happens. Some places are hot; some are cold.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Same here... it's been bouncing between 30C and 15C for the last week or so...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

In CA we've had a pretty cool year. It's starting to heat up a bit, but still cooler than normal.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

We set a record for the minimum high temperature yesterday, i.e. we've never had a daily high for July 5th as low as 57 F before.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X


Quote (dik)


"Surprise! This summer is extremely hot.


Yes your right, like I said since 2021 well placed high pressure areas.
All done to support the talking points.
And could help fuel the next huge lock down.
This is geoengineering at its finest.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
This could be another unwanted consequence:

"Our current projections for fighting climate change are based on the greenhouse gas sources that we already know about — but we could be dangerously underestimating, according to a new study looking at a greenhouse gas source that has, up until this point, been hidden under ice.

Researchers have found that as glaciers shrink, they’re exposing more and more bubbling groundwater springs, releasing an unknown amount of the potent greenhouse gas methane into the atmosphere.

“These springs are a considerable, and potentially growing, source of methane emissions — one that has been missing from our estimations of the global methane budget until now,” Gabrielle Kleber, lead author of the research with the University of Cambridge’s Department of Earth Sciences, said in a press release."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/the...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The coast of Southern California used to regularly get covered in tar balls from natural underground seepage. A few decades of oil extraction have reduced the underground pressures enough that tar washing ashore is now a relatively rare event. Perhaps the solution to preventing methane from being released from under the ice is to extract it and burn it for power generation.

https://www.heritage.org/environment/report/how-of...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
oh good... more CO2, but slightly less harmful... I've seen clips of them igniting the methane from ice bubbles in northern lakes.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Burning it off makes sense if it can't be captured. Methane in the atmosphere, always very harmful. Carbon dioxide in the atmosphere, a good thing, but perhaps too much of a good thing is a bit harmful.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Hokie... CO2 is like good Scotch... a little good is great... too much can be very problematic.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Not human... sorry guy...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

Not human... sorry guy...

And that's simply not true. Humans evolved due to a lack of CO2, they didn't evolve to thrive without it. The big dumb cold-blooded animals were able to survive due to an abundance of food and moderate climate. As CO2 went away and the climate cooled, warm-blooded bodies and a more intelligent mind was required for larger animals to survive.

Makes you wonder why so many retirees move to warmer climates...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Co2 is our friend. The whole earth is Co2 neutral. We have not gone to another planet and brought Co2 to the earth. It originates from the earth. Meaning it is in total balance
and nothing to be concerned about. Stop the geoengineering, if you don't want climate change. But then they would have no talking points for the agenda.
Explain how that high pressure area is maintained in one area, and not affected by winds?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (GregLocock (Automotive))

Straw man fallacy.
Yeah until the full truth is revealed someday, right?
Like UFO swamp gas and such.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Humans evolved due to a lack of CO2)


And that's simply not true. It was typically 300 ppm... during human existance.



https://earth.org/data_visualization/a-brief-histo...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Heating up in Canada, too... more CO2.

"OTTAWA, Ont. — Canada’s 2023 wildfire season is unprecedented by many measures — but this is just the start.

“It’s no understatement to say that the 2023 fire season is — and will continue to be — record-breaking,” Michael Norton, director of the Northern Forestry Centre with the Canadian Forest Service at NRCan, said Thursday during a technical briefing on the unfolding crisis.

There are 639 active fires across Canada, 351 of which are out of control, Norton said. “The total area burned now exceeds any year on record.”"

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/06/canada-fi...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

And that's simply not true. It was typically 300 ppm... during human existance

And you missed the point entirely. Humans evolved from the change. I never said they existed prior.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
That's a big stretch...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

It's literally what happened. Do we not exist and did the change not occur?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe the hottest yet...

"Observations from both satellites and the Earth’s surface are indisputable — the planet has warmed rapidly over the past 44 years. As far back as 1850, data from weather stations all over the globe make clear the Earth’s average temperature has been rising.

In recent days, as the Earth has reached its highest average temperatures in recorded history, scientists have made a bolder claim: It may well be warmer than any time in the last 125,000 years."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2023/07/08/...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

A little background on my comment about mammals evolving because of cold temperatures.

Quote:

The Pleistocene Epoch also was the last time that a great diversity of mammals lived in North America, including mammoths, mastodons, giant sloths, several llama-like camels, and tapirs. And it was the last epoch native horses lived in North America."
https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fossil-horses/ti....

https://www.floridamuseum.ufl.edu/fossil-horses/ti....

Keep in mind that the Pleistocene Epoch started 2.5 million years ago so a 1 in 125 thousand year high temp isn't really that remarkable.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The latest report about the "Hottest day" in the news is actually from the starting point of 1979.
Propaganda at its finest.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Here's what the IPCC AR6 chapter 11 has to say about extreme weather events



Therefore there is no scientific basis for claiming that any of those events are related to climate change.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
More summer on the way... I know, they always have summer...

"The scorching temperatures come after eight consecutive days of highs above 110 degrees in Phoenix. The combination of hot, dry and windy conditions could also lead to fires, according to the NWS.

The excessive heat warning, which started on July 1, is expected to end on July 16. But Smith said there is a chance that the advisory, along with the extreme weather, will last beyond that.

On Saturday, all of South Florida — from Naples to Miami to Fort Lauderdale — was under a heat advisory.

The region's heat index, which indicates what the temperature feels like, ranged from 105 to 109 degrees on Saturday afternoon, the NWS said. Health experts deem a heat index above 103 degrees as dangerous.

Sweltering conditions will likely continue until Friday."

https://www.npr.org/2023/07/08/1186634593/heat-wav...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Eating sushi is also dangerous.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
It's been 40 years since I had fugu... I generally have sushi about once a month... love the stuff...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
How hot is too hot?

"The human body may lose the ability to rid of excessive heat and stop functioning optimally when outside temperatures reach beyond 40 degrees Celsius (104 Fahrenheit), according to new research from the University of Roehampton in England.

The thermoneutral zone is a range of temperatures in which the body doesn’t have to increase its metabolic rate or exert more energy to maintain its ideal core temperature of 37℃elsius or 98.6 Fahrenheit.

Studies show that the zone’s lower limit is 28℃ or 82.4FTrusted Source. Below this, the body expends more energy to maintain its ideal temperature. One of the keys ways it does this is by shivering — when key muscle groups involuntarily contract to produce heat."

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/how-hot-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
...a move in the right direction? I think the world is Friar Tucked...

"Republicans who lead the House Financial Services Committee plan to spend the next few weeks holding hearings and voting on bills designed to send a clear signal: Corporations, in particular big investment managers, should think twice about integrating climate and social goals into their business plans. Committee conservatives will target the process in which advocates pressure public companies to adopt environmental, social and governance (ESG) goals using the shareholder voting process."

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/10/house-gop...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Something to look forward to. Source is Fox News... so Caveat Emptor.

"An NBC meteorologist suggested Sunday that the United Nations' prediction that extreme heat could make certain U.S. areas in the south unlivable for humans in the future is "probably closer than you might think."

During a discussion about the extreme heat waves expected to impact parts of the U.S. this summer, NBC meteorologist Angie Lassman cited a controversial 2022 U.N. climate report claiming that rising temperatures in the U.S. will make parts of Georgia, Alabama, Louisiana and California "less suitable" for human habitation by 2070."

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nbc-meteorologist-ci...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"Probably, might, think." Those are weasel words that negate any value the article may have.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Just a heads up about what may be on the horizon... as I've noted, we'll have to wait and see what's going to happen, and then maybe learn to live with it. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

"Probably, might, think." Those are weasel words that negate any value the article may have.

...along with "suggested","prediction","could", and "expected".

Not sure if "United Nations" are considered weasel words, but their lack of credibility on the subject doesn't do much to make the case that we should take this seriously.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

2
Dik, you have lost any credibility on these weather/climate issues. We can all form our own opinions without you posting endless links to what you think may be problems. You would be best advised to just stop. The rest of of would be best advised to just stop reading your posts.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
It's not too bad... the lawyers haven't left. I wonder if they know something that we don't? pipe

"Another property insurer is dropping coverage in Florida.

Farmers Insurance will stop writing new business and not renew its existing “Farmers-branded” automobile, home and umbrella policies in the Sunshine State, the company said Tuesday.

On Monday, Farmers sent notice of its plans to the Florida Office of Insurance Regulation, which is reviewing it. Insurers must give the office 90 days' notice if they want to discontinue writing business in Florida.

“This business decision was necessary to effectively manage risk exposure,” the company said in a statement.

Floridians on average are paying about $6,000 for their yearly home insurance premium, an increase of 42% compared with last year, said Mark Friedlander, spokesperson for the Insurance Information Institute. By comparison, the average annual premium in the U.S. costs $1,700.

The move will impact 30% of the company's business in Florida, or roughly 100,000 policies. Policyholders affected by the decision are required to be given 120 days' notice that their coverage will not be renewed.

Farmers joined Bankers Insurance, Centauri Insurance and Lexington Insurance, a subsidiary of AIG, in withdrawing from the market since last year, he added."

https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/news/farmers-insurance...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Anthropocene epoch... interesting observation...

"But the idea of an Anthropocene epoch has yet to be formally recognised. First proposed by Nobel Prize-winning chemist Paul Crutzen some 20 years ago, the Anthropocene has been hotly debated: Scientists disagree over when it might have begun or even how to define it.

The AWG plans to submit its proof to the International Commission on Stratigraphy, which is tasked with naming geological eras of the earth’s history. Several scientific committees must still vote to recognise the Anthropocene before it is commonly accepted.

John Holdren, a former United States White House science adviser, is among those advocating for a much earlier start date to the Anthropocene. While he was not a member of the AWG, he nevertheless agrees that human behaviour is changing the earth in unexpected ways.

“The hubris is in imagining that we are in control,” Holdren told The Associated Press. “The reality is that our power to transform the environment has far exceeded our understanding of the consequences and our capacity to change course.”"

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/7/11/evidence-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

A lot of these articles are about "unexpected" changes. If everything is unexpected to these climate scientists perhaps it's time they go back to school and stop trying to make history.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

“The hubris is in imagining that we are in control,” Holdren told The Associated Press. “The reality is that our power to transform the environment has far exceeded our understanding of the consequences and our capacity to change course.”"

I'm surprised to see you quote that, and even made it bold. Doesn't it say that we don't understand and can't control the environment? If that's the case (which is what I've been saying all along), should we be messing with it?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Yes... to be real honest (and I generally am), we have no idea of what's coming. It could be good, and it could be really really ugly... likely somewhere in between. I just hope it's not at the ugly end.

Quote (should we be messing with it?)


We already have, it's too late to put the imp back in the bottle... and we'll have to address whatever happens.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
This may just be the beginning. Can you imagine when things get hot?

"More than a third of Americans were under extreme heat advisories, watches and warnings as a blistering heat wave that's been baking the nation spread further into California, forcing residents to seek out air conditioning or find other ways to stay cool in triple-digit temperatures.

The sweltering conditions were expected to continue to build Friday and through the weekend in Central and Southern California, where many residents should prepare for the hottest weather of the year, the National Weather Service warned. Highs in inland desert areas could top 120 degrees Fahrenheit during the day, and remain in the 80s overnight, offering little relief."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/heat-wave-temperature...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

dik, its being engineered, something has to hold the pressure areas where they are.
The major huge change started in 2021, as well as many other life changing events.
Every summer and even winters since 2021 have had pressure areas strategically placed to
cause strange weather events. Do you know why?
Also the solar activity is a huge help as well, did you see the aurora?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Oh. So many deserving candidates. Where to start :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Possible advances in solar panel construction.

"Bifacial solar panels make the most sense when it comes to harnessing sunlight to produce pollution-free energy.

The average solar panel relies on energy that comes directly from the sun. But today, another kind of solar panel can actually capture that same energy from sunlight that bounces off the ground, taking in power from both sides, as reported by CNET.

Solar manufacturers have revealed that these panels have the capacity to produce an additional 11-23% of energy compared to their monofacial, or single-sided, counterparts

This percentage may not seem significant, but over time, the gain in value is definitely worth it."

https://www.thecooldown.com/green-tech/bifacial-so...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
...need to know.

"Pro-business politicians embraced the idea of so-called green investing — until the SEC suggested companies should report their full emissions."

https://theintercept.com/2023/07/02/esg-investing-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Be Prepared... motto of the Boy Scouts...

"The floods, droughts, wildfires and extreme heat sweeping the globe are offering a dose of the climate future that scientists have warned about for decades — and all the ways the world is not ready.

From a nearly depleted federal disaster fund to state insurance markets that are faltering under the weight of multiple catastrophes, extreme weather is testing the ability of even a rich nation like the United States to withstand the warming that has arrived faster than many scientists expected. So are the torrential rains flooding Northeastern states like Vermont, the shriveling Colorado River that has prompted a multistate brawl over dividing the water, the record temperatures that have raised worries about the stability of the electric grid, and the Canadian wildfire smoke that has repeatedly blanketed D.C. and other parts of the U.S. in recent weeks."

https://www.politico.com/news/2023/07/14/we-are-no...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
The US has twice the per capita carbon footprint... maybe they should 'clean up their act', first. Set a good example.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Tug -

Awesome cartoon!! Too funny. lol

It definitely feels like much of the "green" agenda is to turn over large segments of the economy over to more and more governmental control. Gas Stoves, Pizza Ovens, making grocery bags and straws illegal. Government mandated culling of livestock (Denmark?). Illegal to use fertilizers farming (Sri Lanka).

The thing with these moves towards socialism is that they are extremely unpopular. And, the politicians pushing them will pay a heavy price. Two of these countries (Sri Lanka and Denmark) felt widespread popular backlash against these government actions. So much so that this issue completely changed the balance of power of the Dutch Parliament. It's just a matter of time before this happens in the US and Canada. Heck, I think it would have already happened in the US if the other party (i.e. the GOP hadn't gotten hijacked by a snake oil salesman).

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Catch this toon...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

And we all survived. In fact, none of us would have even known it was the hottest day of we weren't told it was.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Not to worry... I suspect there will be more of them in the future...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Bring it on. I'm going to the beach today to enjoy it. It's going to be 87°F today.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Have a great day...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
A heads up from 40 years ago...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wp-WiNXH6hI

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Do any of these items qualify Carl Sagan as a climate scientist?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Not at all, but his comments to the congressional committee seem to be 'on the mark'... and that was 40 years ago.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"The floods, droughts, wildfires and extreme heat sweeping the globe are offering a dose of the climate future that scientists have warned about for decades — and all the ways the world is not ready."



So the IPCC would say the first two of those are not due to CO2.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (So the IPCC would say the first two of those are not due to CO2.)


With the increase in number and intensity of storms, caused by global warming, I would suggest these are a direct result of CO2. Take a gander at what is happening in India and Australia of late...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

With the increase in number and intensity of storms, caused by global warming, I would suggest these are a direct result of CO2.

That's a funny way to negate a statement. Global warming doesn't cause storms. Increasing the frequency and intensity of something that doesn't exist doesn't mean anything.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
The heat dome...

"Just weeks after a third of the US population was hit with air-quality alerts thanks to smoke from climate-change-fueled fires in Canada, 100 million Americans are now under heat alerts. A cap of extra-hot air, known as a heat dome, has settled over the West and South, pushing temperatures relentlessly higher.

The map below shows excessive heat warnings in purple and heat advisories in orange, and the forecast is that things will get worse through the weekend. Highs will stay above 110° Fahrenheit in Phoenix; California’s Death Valley is flirting with 130°; and Texas’ grid is struggling to keep the AC on.

This follows the hottest June on record globally. “With an evolving El Niño event, that is certain to further increase global temperatures,” says Howard Diamond, climate science program manager at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration’s Air Resources Laboratory. (El Niño is a band of warm water that develops in the Pacific Ocean and influences weather around the world.) “Canada has also experienced multiple bouts of prolonged heat this summer, contributing to the worst wildfire season the country has ever seen,” Diamond adds."

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/07/the-heat-w...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Well this is a kink in the narrative.

Quote:

Tourists also showed up in droves to Death Valley National Park over the weekend, hoping to be present for a historic moment when the lowest, hottest, driest place on Earth was predicted to potentially surpass its hottest temperature ever of 134 degrees, last recorded in 1913, according to the National Park Service. However, the weather service’s Las Vegas office predicted a high of 127 on Sunday.

https://www.sfgate.com/weather/article/record-brea...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Global warming doesn't cause storms.)


I disagree... it not only causes storms by the added amount of moisture it picks up but the increased pressure differentials cause greater intensity.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
"Global heat records and natural disasters 'exceeding' climate experts predictions"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tq1aQ_L7wZo

Tug... see 5:35

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

How does insulating the atmosphere, which tends to even out temperatures, lead to increased pressure differentials?

Is MSNBC a climate scientist? Have we figured out what w climate scientist is yet?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
The insulation just increases the trapped heat. Due to unequal heating of parts of the earth, this causes pressure differentials.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Pyramidic platforms for wind turbines:

"X1 Wind turbine adopts a pyramid platform to go with its buoy system to allow the structure to move where the air blows, hence generating energy almost constantly. X1 Wind turbine’s platform has a system called the PivotBuoy where the foundation is connected to a single point and allows the platform to move with the wind."

https://www.designboom.com/technology/x1-wind-turb...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Emotional trauma of climate change... this only affects 60% of the population, the other 40% don't believe that climate change is happening.

"When cellphone alerts started blaring Thursday afternoon warning a tornado was coming, Jakeb Tucker and his grandmother ran for cover.

As they rushed downstairs, the 11-year-old said he heard a screeching noise and something banging in the wind.

"The house was kind of shaking, just like I was when I was down in that basement," he said.

When the wind died down and they headed upstairs they found the ground covered with tree branches, bits of siding and other debris. The trampoline that had been in the backyard was a crumpled mess near the neighbour's pool."

https://www.theweathernetwork.com/en/news/weather/...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Well, that pretty fairly describes a tornado all right.

"Emotional trauma of climate change..." - When every disagreeable manifestation of the weather is tied to climate change and it is claimed it is only going to get worse, what do you expect. They are scaring the hell out of people for no good reason.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Oh, there is good reason. When people act out of fears rationality is out the window.

Nobody cares what the cost or benefit of that 3 legged wind turbine is. It just needs to get built. Meanwhile, Vestas is swimming in profit not due to commercial value but due to government subsidies.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"... no good reason."

I stand corrected :)

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Seems fitting…

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Credentials may be a little light....

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X



Quote (dik (Structural))

17 Jul 23 04:39
"Global heat records and natural disasters 'exceeding' climate experts predictions"


More proof of geoengineering to support the experts.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Sorry eng... Dr. Michael Mann is a well known and respected scientist.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Michael Mann, he of hockey stick fame. He can probably take credit for inventing climate change, or at least of global warming.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

This Michael Mann seems to specialize in dirt and rocks, not air. What qualifies him as a climate scientist other than discredited theories? His willingness to make shocking but untrue claims?



On a side note, my cousin studied geophysics at a prestigious university. She never did work in the field, only the oil companies wanted her. She wasn't so keen on being an oil prospector.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Sorry Tug, but I would suggest that

and the degree in geophysics could very well represent his academic qualifications... his discussion is quite lucid.


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

dik,

A good book for you to read would be "The Hidden Persuaders by Vance Packard Originally published in 1957" it may help you see what is really happening.
Another good topic that could help see what could be helping with the geoengineering is "The Disclosure Project" that has hundreds of high up witnesses and whistle blowers.
Too many things happening at once since 2021.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

his discussion is quite lucid

His discussion is quite convincing. However, this does not relate to it being factual or even honest.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Sorry Tug... I didn't notice any glaring errors...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
... a different opinion. I don't agree with him, but it's added info. To quote Tug, "What qualifies him as a climate scientist other than discredited theories?"

"‘No Real Climate Crisis’
The award-winning scientist warned that the information being touted as truth is being driven by ‘massive shock-journalistic pseudoscience.’

The report goes on to assert that governments around the world along with respected news outlets promote the idea of a climate crisis in order to comply with the green agenda goals of the World Economic Forum (WEF), United Nations (UN), the World Health Organisation (WHO), and other unelected organisations."

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/07/18/there-is-no-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

If it means anything, I don't consider "Nobel Prize Winner" a credential. There have been some recent winners that have very much eroded all value of a Nobel Prize.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"Massive shock-journalistic pseudoscience". I like it.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (If it means anything, I don't consider "Nobel Prize Winner" a credential.)


I concur... four presidents have won the peace prize... including Obama... no credibility... and this guy is a scientist? You'd think he would know better.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Obama was an example of why the Nobel Prize is no longer credible.

https://www.npr.org/2009/12/10/121276209/obama-def...

As his presidency matured, later reflections became much more scathing. The Nobel Prize has become highly politicized and that shows in their science selections as well.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
The cost of insurance is going up; it may not be possible to get insurance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YrM4OmV4Rw

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The cost of everything is going up... May not be able to get many things.

I live in the other affected zone. Construction and permitting costs are too high. It has nothing to do with your boogie man.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Another perspective:

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/3228295/ch...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Someone pointed out that if CO2 is causing the heatwaves, as the scary media like to claim, then the whole globe should be getting warmer, as CO2 is fairly evenly distributed. But in fact while some regions are experiencing higher temperatures than their long term average, others are seeing cooler temperatures than average.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Someone pointed out that if CO2 is causing the heatwaves)


Not true... the CO2 is just trapping heat. The different land and water forms have an impact on weather patterns.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Its definitely been a beautiful summer here in Michigan. I run a few miles most days, preferably at lunch or in the early evening. This time of year I normally have to do early mornings or late nights to avoid the heat but here we are, nearly August and another sunny, clear, 70F day.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I know politics inevitably sneaks in to threads like this, but let's try to keep the discussion focused on the science and engineering aspects, rather than name-calling, even in cartoon form, shall we?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Heatwaves in Texas are decreasing in frequency (West coast is a different story)

This map shows trends in unusually hot temperatures at individual weather stations that have operated consistently since 1948. In this case, the term “unusually hot” refers to a daily maximum temperature that is hotter than the 95th percentile temperature during the 1948–2020 period. Thus, the maximum temperature on a particular day at a particular station would be considered “unusually hot” if it falls within the warmest 5 percent of measurements at that station during the 1948–2020 period. The map shows changes in the total number of days per year that were hotter than the 95th percentile. Red upward-pointing symbols show where these unusually hot days are becoming more common. Blue downward-pointing symbols show where unusually hot days are becoming less common. Data source: NOAA, 2021, EPA

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Not so sure, Greg

"Parts of Texas have been roasting for more than two weeks and flirting with the state’s record high temperature, and now, temperatures could get even hotter and expand to other areas across the South.

“Many areas outside south and south-central Texas (will) experience their most significant heat of the season thus far,” the Weather Prediction Center said on Friday.

More than 90 record high temperatures could be broken this week from Texas to Missouri to Florida, with the majority of those occurring Wednesday through Friday."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/26/weather/heat-texas-...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
and more. I sure hope you can reset the 'switch'.

"Summer in the Northern Hemisphere is playing out like an apocalypse movie: a tale of heat, floods and fire. But scientists warn this may only be a preview of the unpredictable chaos to come if the world continues to pump out planet-heating pollution.

Just over halfway through July and already a slew of extreme weather records has been broken.

A prolonged, unrelenting heat wave has scorched large parts of the South and Southwest United States. Temperatures in Phoenix, Arizona, have hit at least 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43.3C) for a record-breaking 19 consecutive days, and emergency departments are flooded with heat-related illness.

09 cool down wellness
In extreme heat, here are 14 ways to keep your body and home cool without AC
Southern Europe is experiencing one of its most extreme heat waves on record, with wildfires raging in Greece, Spain and Switzerland. And in Asia, temperatures have pushed above 50 degrees Celsius (122 degrees Fahrenheit) in China, while parts of South Korea, Japan and northern India are experiencing deadly flooding."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66229...



-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Whatever... sorry guy, the chart is for the world... for the US, it's a little different, but of of a simiilar ilk.



-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Fun with numbers:

Quote:

20°C to 22°C is a lot more alarming than an increase of 293K to 295K
20C to 22C = 110%
68F to 71.6F = 105.3%
293K to 295K = 100.7%

To all the proponents using the misleading figure of 20C/22C percentages rather than ratios based on absolute temperatures I have a partial solution:
If all countries change from Celsius to Fahrenheit we can cut the temperature increase from 10% to 5.3%, almost one half.
Once we implement that we will have broken the ice (or melted it) so to speak.
Then we can go to work on reducing the temperature increase to less than 1% by educating the planet on the concept of absolute zero.
Another option may be to re-elect Trump and he will fix it with his "Magic Sharpy".



--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Not really... end result is pretty much similar...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

Another option may be to re-elect Trump and he will fix it with his "Magic Sharpy".

Well, we really should be raking our forests. Maybe we should burn the biomass to prevent it from becoming methane. A properly tuned furnace will produce a lot less particulate matter than letting the inevitable occur naturally.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Attribution:

""You can say that smoking increases your risk of lung cancer by a certain amount," Gillett said. "In the same way, you can say human-induced climate change increased the risk of a certain event by a certain amount."

Since then, hundreds of attribution papers have been peer-reviewed and published. As well as Canada, governments including the United Kingdom, Australia, the Netherlands, South Korea, Japan and the United States are using attribution science.

Attribution science works by comparing climate models. One set of models will use data drawn from actual records while another, otherwise identical, set will be constructed with the influence of greenhouse gases removed.

Simulations will be run using those two sets and the difference in the results reveals the impact of climate change. It allows scientists to say to what extent the presence of greenhouse gases increased the likelihood of the event in question.

"It's probabilistic," Gillett said.

The process is now established enough, with peer-reviewed protocols and standards, that the calculations can be done quickly."

https://www.ctvnews.ca/climate-and-environment/you...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Maybe a little bit...
Notice the red on the right and the blue on the left... We'll see what the next few years will bring.



California and Florida show more promise:





-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
The guy's a bit of a pessimist... If you follow the curve to the right, horizontally as the current approach appears to be, it looks like the temperature rise will be 3.8C... and who knows what will happen. All speculation... the polar vortex could bring on another ice age, but I doubt it.

"The UN says passing the limit will expose millions more people to potentially devastating climate events.

The world agreed to try to limit the temperature increase due to climate change to 1.5C above pre-industrial levels at a UN conference in Paris in 2015. That target has become the centrepiece of global efforts to tackle climate change.

Climate scientists have been warning governments for years that they are not cutting their countries' emissions quickly enough to keep within this target.

But it is surprising for someone as senior and well respected as the former head of the UN climate science body the IPCC to be so frank that he believes it will be missed."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66256...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Yes dik, all being engineered to force climate change agendas.)


...just so they can sell more air conditioners in California and Florida... and hope they don't run out of power. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Who is "the guy"?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
which guy... him, " for someone as senior and well respected as the former head of the UN climate science body the IPCC" ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

The IPCC doesn't seem to be well respected here.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
It doesn't appear that anyone that advocates that climate change is happening is well respected. It will be interesting to see what the next few 'bars' on the 'Temperature Change Bar Charts' are like...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

No. Nobody here respects climate alarmists.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Judging from the weather of late, it might be time to get, at least, a little concerned. Once it gets moving, it may be difficult to stop.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Productivity drain... I wonder who's going to pay for this and is it factored into the costs of climate change? If you think you are setting records now, wait until next year, or maybe worse, next month. pipe

"“The heat, it’s just miserable, I don’t know how to explain it other than you feel like you’re breathing in hot air,” she said. “Even at nighttime, the sun is down, but it’s still hot.”

In the dead of night, the temperature remains in the triple digits.

As Phoenix and a large chunk of the United States bake under a record heat wave, the massive swath of extreme heat is not only taking a toll on millions of Americans, it’s also driving up costs for businesses and putting pressure on the economy.

$100 billion productivity drain
While the true economic impact has yet to be tabulated for this weather event — the nature of excessive heat, its varying effects and sizable reach make that a tall order — recent studies have shown that extreme heat could cost the United States $100 billion annually from the productivity loss alone. If left unchecked, it could sap away one-sixth of global economic activity by the year 2100.

“The recent heat waves and scorching summer temperatures demonstrate the economic cost of heat stress,” Chris Lafakis, Moody’s Analytics’ director of economic research, wrote in an emailed response to a CNN query. “Heat waves can cause mortality and produce disruptions in business continuity. Heat waves can also stress regional power grids, driving up the cost and availability of space cooling.”"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/23/economy/extreme-hea...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Why is it that he most sensitive to heat related illness (the elderly) always seem to move to the hottest areas after retirement?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Chill weather is not friendly to arthritis. Wait for it.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Florida, Texas, and California may be some of the most vulnerable...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Florida, Texas, and Arizona... Retirees are not moving to California.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Thanks, Tug... didn't know that...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Let's nip the hurricane season scare mongering in the bud

Peak of the Atlantic hurricane season occurs between mid-August and mid-October. Christopher Landsea is Chief of the Tropical Analysis and Forecast Branch at the National Weather Service’s National Hurricane Center. In May 2022 he informed us there is no upward trend in hurricanes and calmly states “we cannot yet say with confidence whether there is any detectable human influence on past Atlantic hurricane activity, and this is particularly the case for any greenhouse gas-induced changes.”

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

dik
Please explain how the pace of your climate crisis has gone into overdrive starting in 2021?
Even Inslee is talking about it happening sooner.
2 things come to mind, massive solar activity and planet alignments(gravitational forces), and geoengineering combined.
The astronomical information was known for what 100's of years ago. In other words these times well planed for.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
I don't...

If you take a look at the bar charts above... the heating up starts about year 2000 (actually about 1980), and picks up from there... Almost none of the temperatures are below the last 30 year average. (30 years is a good number and likely representative of the weather most people are familiar with.) It's just picking up of late and we'll have to see where that takes us. The extreme right of the bar chart appears to be pretty red... and increasing in height. These are really 'bad' signs. It will be interesting to see what the next few years will post... how much 'redder and how much higher... pipe

If you take a gander at the Global effect... it gets even more interesting... more intense and more uniform in increase.



-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
No one seems to ask, "Can it get any worse?" Maybe people don't want to know? pipe

"Global warming from burning fossil fuels also made the heatwave affecting parts of China 50 times more likely.

Climate change meant the heatwave in southern Europe was 2.5C hotter, the study finds.

Almost all societies remain unprepared for deadly extreme heat, experts warn.

The study's authors say its findings highlight the importance of the world adapting to higher temperatures because they are no longer "rare".

"Heat is among the deadliest types of disaster," says Julie Arrighi from the Red Cross Red Crescent Climate Centre, and also one of the authors.

Countries must build heat-resistant homes, create "cool centres" for people to find shelter, and find ways to cool cities including planting more trees, she says.

In July, temperature records were broken in parts of China, the southern US and Spain. Millions of people spent days under red alerts for extreme heat.

Experts say extreme heat can be a very serious threat to life, especially among the elderly. According to one study, more than 61,000 people were estimated to have died from heat-related causes during last year's heatwaves in Europe."

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66289...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

No one seems to ask, "Can it get any worse?"

Really. That is all anybody says.

You are quoting little else.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

Experts say extreme heat can be a very serious threat to life, especially among the elderly.

I knew this was coming. Didn't you see my comment about the popularity of hotter climates with the elderly?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

As long as they can afford to run their air conditioners they'll be fine.

The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Sure did... wait until it heats up... and watch them 'drop like flies'...

SNT... "The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand" We'll see how that works out...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

recent studies have shown that extreme heat could cost the United States $100 billion annually from the productivity loss alone. If left unchecked, it could sap away one-sixth of global economic activity by the year 2100.

Do you research your data at all? The CDC says winter slips and falls account for $50 billion in medical costs alone in USA... That does not include lost productivity.

https://www.sfmic.com/safety/avoid-winter-slips-an...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I guess medical costs earn money when a slow work day loses it so medical costs are preferable.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Really. That is all anybody says.)


SNT...

My error.. the question should be, "How much worse is it going to get?"

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (More people die of cold in India than from heat.)


With climate change, that trend may not continue...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

What about my question?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (What about my question?)


About moving to hot spots? Addled? The hot spots may get a lot hotter, and put them at risk they didn't have before.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Things running AMOC...

"A vital system of ocean currents could collapse within a few decades if the world continues to pump out planet-heating pollution, scientists are warning – an event that would be catastrophic for global weather and “affect every person on the planet.”

A new study published Tuesday in the journal Nature, found that the Atlantic Meridional Overturning Current – of which the Gulf Stream is a part – could collapse around the middle of the century, or even as early as 2025.

Scientists uninvolved with this study told CNN the exact tipping point for the critical system is uncertain, and that measurements of the currents have so far showed little trend or change. But they agreed these results are alarming and provide new evidence that the tipping point could occur sooner than previously thought.

The AMOC is a complex tangle of currents that works like a giant global conveyor belt. It transports warm water from the tropics toward the North Atlantic, where the water cools, becomes saltier and sinks deep into the ocean, before spreading southwards.

Visitors wear sun hats and carry umbrellas as they leave the Forbidden City on a hot day in Beijing, Thursday, June 29, 2023. The entire planet sweltered for the two unofficial hottest days in human recordkeeping Monday and Tuesday, according to University of Maine scientists at the Climate Reanalyzer project. The unofficial heat records come after months of unusually hot conditions due to climate change and a strong El Nino event. (AP Photo/Andy Wong)
Global heat in 'uncharted territory' as scientists warn 2023 could be the hottest year on record
It plays a crucial role in the climate system, helping regulate global weather patterns. Its collapse would have enormous implications, including much more extreme winters and sea level rises affecting parts of Europe and the US, and a shifting of the monsoon in the tropics."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/world/gulf-stream-a...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

"Why not now have a discussion on how to manipulate high and low pressure areas to affect the weather?"

Are we all going to let delusions like this one just sit ?

Who is going to pick this one up ? .... There is significant risk here, in my opinion ...

The public will begin to believe that this fantasy is possible if we just leave statements like this without challenge ..

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (Tug)

What about my question?
What about my answer?

Quote (WARoss)

Chill weather is not friendly to arthritis. Wait for it.
You may have to wait until you are older to understand this.
The older members understand completely.

And the folk who are moving south tend to be those who can afford A/C.
The term "Snow Birds" is common in Canada.
Summer in Canada and winter somewhere warmer.
Minimum time per year in Canada to maintain Canadian medical coverage factors in.
Snow birds enjoy the best of all worlds.
Not too hot in summer, not too cold in winter, and Canadian medical coverage.
Those who cannot afford two homes and travel between them wear more clothes in winter.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Is the Great Barrier next? Approaching 'sous vide' temperatures... pipe

"An urgent rescue operation is underway to save Florida coral species from extinction as a mass bleaching event and die-off from unprecedented water temperatures spreads across reefs in the the Florida Keys.

Multiple reefs around the Florida Keys are now completely bleached or dead in a grim escalation that took place in as little as two weeks, coral experts told CNN.

Experts now say they expect “complete mortality” of the bleached reefs in just a week, and worry reefs at greater depths could face the same fate if the unprecedented ocean warmth continues to escalate.

Extreme heat and a lack of rain and wind pushed water temperatures around Florida to some of the highest levels ever observed anywhere. A buoy in the Florida Bay hit 101.1 degrees Fahrenheit at a depth of 5 feet Monday, in an area where coral is scant. Many other stations in the area topped 96 degrees, including one that hit 99 degrees, according to the National Data Buoy Center."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/us/florida-ocean-he...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (The public will begin to believe that this fantasy)


A couple of more weeks under the heat dome down south, may start to convince/educate them... and with Florida having 100F oceans, We'll just have to see how this continues...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (MJCronin)

Are we all going to let delusions like this one just sit ?

Who is going to pick this one up ? .... There is significant risk here, in my opinion ...

The public will begin to believe that this fantasy is possible if we just leave statements like this without challenge ..

That poster has a long and storied history of posting ridiculous conspiracy theory BS, and will not respond to criticism. You're welcome to try, but those of us who have interacted with him previously in this and other threads know he won't be convinced. According to him we're all idiots anyway.

Quote (dik)

A couple of more weeks under the heat dome down south, may start to convince/educate them... and with Florida having 100F oceans, We'll just have to see how this continues...

The fantasy MJC is referring to is enginesrus's BS posts about global warming being due to some master plan by the illuminati, or whatever.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

...with Florida having 100F oceans...

Really? You should think about what you write before posting such ridiculous garbage. You'll squander what credibility you have left with statements like that.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

It was a misinterpretation of some alarmist news that is circulating. There is a shallow bay in Florida that has recently exceeded 100°F due to silt causing additional light absorption. How that result got extrapolate to oceans? I think I know.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/weather/hot-tub-water...

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Something is holding the pressure areas in place. And that is the cause of the heat domes.
My posts are to get the stuff in the heads thinking.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Really? You should think about what you write before posting such ridiculous garbage.)


Sorry Bridge... as noted in the post... you might read some of this stuff... pipe

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/25/us/florida-ocean-he...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
It's a beginning, Tug, and it will likely get warmer...

from the article, "Extreme heat and a lack of rain and wind pushed water temperatures around Florida to some of the highest levels ever observed anywhere. A buoy in the Florida Bay hit 101.1 degrees Fahrenheit at a depth of 5 feet Monday"

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (Something is holding the pressure areas in place. And that is the cause of the heat domes.)


It's likely an effect of climate change on the jet stream...

"A prolonged, unrelenting heat wave has scorched large parts of the South and Southwest United States. Temperatures in Phoenix, Arizona, have hit at least 110 degrees Fahrenheit (43.3C) for a record-breaking 19 consecutive days, and emergency departments are flooded with heat-related illness.

In extreme heat, here are 14 ways to keep your body and home cool without AC
Southern Europe is experiencing one of its most extreme heat waves on record, with wildfires raging in Greece, Spain and Switzerland. And in Asia, temperatures have pushed above 50 degrees Celsius (122 degrees Fahrenheit) in China, while parts of South Korea, Japan and northern India are experiencing deadly flooding.

In a statement on Tuesday, Petteri Taalas, secretary general of the World Meteorological Organization, called this relentless cascade of extreme weather “the new normal.”

But some scientists now baulk at that framing.

“When I hear it, I get a bit crazy because it’s not really the new normal,” said Hannah Cloke, a climate scientist and professor at the University of Reading in the UK. “Until we stop pumping greenhouse gases into the atmosphere we have no idea what the future looks like.”"

https://www.cnn.com/2023/07/19/world/extreme-weath...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Some questions:

How much heating of the ocean is by convection? Or is it as I suspect, entirely heated by solar irradiance? If this is the case, how does climate change contribute to warmer oceans?

About infrared photography, has there been a noticeable change in the brightness of the sky in Infrared photos due to more reflected heat from CO2?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (How much heating of the ocean is by convection?)


There are incredible convection currents... all over the oceans.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j2ETr6X1lOk

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Convection as in heat exchange from the atmosphere to the ocean. It doesn't make sense that hotter air would convect heat downwards into the ocean.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
As long as you have a thermal gradient within a fluid, you will likely have convection currents whether the fluid is liquid or gaseous. I don't know what the effect of this are if the fluid doesn't change density with temperature. There would be some interaction of the two, by heat transfer, if the two were at different temperatures. This would also affect the convection within the respective fluid.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

I know what convection is but you're focusing on the wrong part of the question. I was asking about the heat transfered between the two fluids, the air and the sea. They each experience their own convection and there is conduction at the interface. But, due to the physics of convection I don't believe much heat gets transferred from the atmosphere to the sea as convection transfers heat upwards, not downwards.

And the sea cools primarily by evaporation so the temperature of the air isn't going to have much affect on the cooling of the oceans, either.

How does climate change explain the warming of the oceans?

Are climate scientists so inept that they're assuming the heat transfer to the ocean from the atmosphere is by conduction and are ignoring the convective behavior of the atmosphere?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (And the sea cools primarily by evaporation so the temperature of the air isn't going to have much affect on the cooling of the oceans, either.)


I suspect that the more you heat it up, the more it evaporates and the more it cools? Pretty soon there will be ice all over the oceans which will reflect the sunlight and eliminate global warming. ponder

The CO2 traps the heat and helps prevent it from radiating into space. This is the greenhouse effect. If the heat is retained against the surface of the earth it will tend to cause it to heat up. This includes both the water surface as well as the land.

It's like putting a pyrex bowl in an over and turning it on. After a short time, the water will heat up. The heat gain is conduction, convection and by radiation. I don't know in what percentages... but, someone may have those figures.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (dik)

It's like putting a pyrex bowl in an over and turning it on. After a short time, the water will heat up. The heat gain is conduction, convection and by radiation. I don't know in what percentages... but, someone may have those figures.

Ok, what what happens when you set the oven for 73°F vs 350°F?

Sorry, you have used a bad analogy. Also, you must know the difference between top and bottom rack. The ocean must be bottom rack.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Give climate change a chance... it's just beginning. Setting the temperature and the rack location can affect the heating process... but the end result is predictable. pipe

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Sorry I need to quote this.

Quote (dik)

Give climate change a chance..

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (TugboatEng)

How does climate change explain the warming of the oceans?

I know I'm wasting my breath here, but it's really not very complicated.

The ocean absorbs the visible light emitted by the sun. 1360 W/m2 average just like everywhere else. It then radiates energy back out, but not in visible wavelengths - the emitted energy from the ocean is in the infrared band. This is fairly obvious since when you stand on the edge of your tugboat and look down at the water you aren't blinded by the glowing ocean.

CO2 both absorbs and emits in the infrared band. Infrared energy absorbed by a CO2 molecule is re-emitted in all directions - meaning that on average, 50% of the energy absorbed is re-emitted back toward the earth.

Most pure gasses, such as and including N2 and O2 don't absorb infrared. If there were no greenhouse gasses at all in the atmosphere, 100% of the infrared energy emitted by the ocean (and the land, too) would pass right through the atmosphere into space, and the planet would be very cold.

As the percentage of gasses in the atmosphere that absorb and re-emit infrared back toward the surface instead of letting it pass by into space goes up, the total quantity of infrared energy being radiated toward the surface increases, and the percentage of the total energy absorbed by the planet which is allowed to radiate off into space goes down.

More energy radiated toward the surface of the planet means more heat absorbed, which means higher temperatures. Not very complicated.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
Thanks for a better explanation of 'trapping the heat'. Your explanation was a lot shorter than mine would have been.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

As a boy I swam in Okanagan lake.
The sunlight heats the water up to a depth of about 4 or 5 feet.
Convection works to keep a fairly sharp division between the heated water and the cooler water beneath.
Wind and waves worked to mix the upper warm water with the lower, cooler water.
Water temperatures on the beaches often reached 80 F.
During hot, still weather the local radio station regularly broadcast the beach water temperature.
When there were days of clear skies and no wind, the water would heat up.
It didn't take much wind to create enough wave action to mix the water and drop the temperature of the upper layer.

Warmer than usual ocean water?
Usually correlates with days of clear skies and little to no wind or waves.

By the way, I still remember the feeling of diving into 80 degree water and at a depth of 4 or 5 feet, feeling my body pass into the much cooler water below.
It was a unique feeling as the sharp division between warm and much cooler water passed over your body as you dove down into the cooler water.
Today:

Quote (Seatemperature.info)

Water temperature in Okanagan Lake is expected to rise to 25°C in the next 10 days. July average water temperature in Okanagan Lake is 24°C, the minimum temperature is 20°C, and the maximum is 30°C.
By the way, while many beaches are fairly shallow shelves. the lake is a very deep lake.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Thanks, waross. I couldn't wrap my mind around the 100 degree ocean temps; that's like hot tub temps. If it's only the top 5 feet or so, I guess I can buy that. The water in the bays in Jamaica were warm when I was there, but not close to being that warm.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

SwinnyGG, the water has 1000x the heat capacity x volume of air. If what you described is the only cause of ocean heating then it should occur 1000x more slowly than the atmosphere.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)
...maybe it's heating that fast; could that be a reason for concern?

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (TugboatEng)

water has 1000x the heat capacity x volume of air

Yeah.. which is why fractional degrees of change in the average temperature of the ocean represent very large changes in the total thermal energy stored by the earth and available to warm the atmosphere.

Quote (TugboatEng)

If what you described is the only cause of ocean heating then it should occur 1000x more slowly than the atmosphere.

Wrong.

'Air' is not a homogeneous material. Each of the constituent gasses have a different response to solar radiation. They are not uniformly heated by the same exposure. What we now call 'greenhouse' gasses representing a small volume percentage of the atmosphere, but represent a dominating percentage of the heat absorption. The heat absorbed by these molecules is transferred to the other gasses. In other words, of the entire volume of the earth's atmosphere, a very small percentage is actually absorbing heat- meaning that of the total radiant energy passing through the atmosphere, only a small percentage is absorbed.

Water is, relative to the atmosphere, a homogeneous material. All of the water that is directly contacted by solar radiation has the same response, and 100% of solar radiation across all wavelengths that hits the water and is not reflected is absorbed.

Point is, the ocean absorbs a much larger percentage of the energy radiation onto its surface than the atmosphere absorbs of the radiation passing through it.

The stuff I'm talking about in this post and in my last post are settled physics. Whether you believe humans are warming the planet or not, the earth's energy balance is very well understood. Settled science.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Ok, CO2 absorbs the reflected radiation which causes the greenhouse effect. It's not reflecting the radiation back. CO2 should have no impact on how much radiation is reaching the oceans's surface. The heating of the oceans cannot be a result of greenhouse gasses if the ocean is exclusively heated by radiation.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (TugboatEng)

Ok, CO2 absorbs the reflected radiation which causes the greenhouse effect. It's not reflecting the radiation back. CO2 should have no impact on how much radiation is reaching the oceans's surface. The heating of the oceans cannot be a result of greenhouse gasses if the ocean is exclusively heated by radiation.

Wrong.

It's not reflecting anything, and no one said it was. For the second time:

CO2 molecules absorb infrared, which is then re-emitted. 50% of the re-emission is back toward the earth. Of the infrared radiation coming from the surface that DOES NOT hit a CO2 (or other greenhouse gas) molecule on its way toward the edge of space, 100% of that energy escapes. Of the infrared radiation coming from the surface that DOES hit a CO2 (or other greenhouse gas) molecule on its way toward the edge of space, 50% of that energy is re-emitted back toward the surface. More CO2 (or other greenhouse gas) molecules in the atmosphere means a higher rate of radiant flux on the surface. Period. Settled physics. If you debate this you are arguing against known facts and demonstrating that you have no clue what you're talking about.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

If 100% of the solar radiation that impacts water is absorbed, not reflected, what reflected infrared radiation is the CO2 above the oceans reflecting back down to the oceans?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote:

If 100% of the solar radiation that impacts water is absorbed, not reflected,
That's not what I heard him say.

--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Yes, I see now that is not exactly what he said.

However, would radiation reflected once not be reflected again?

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (TugboatEng)

However, would radiation reflected once not be reflected again?

You need to stop using the term 'reflected' to describe an absorption/re-emission process. They are fundamentally different.

And, generally, no. The radiation absorption spectrum of water has a gigantic peak in the IR band. The IR emitted by the water, absorbed by the CO2, and re-emitted back toward the ocean surface is almost completely re-absorbed again.

This is the absorption band for liquid water at 250C. Notice the valley in the visible band, which allows water to be transparent. Note how the lowest absorption value on the whole plot is right over the blue part of the visible band. This is why when you're deep underwater everything is visible in shades of blue only - all other wavelengths are absorbed.

Then notice the giant absorption values in the UV and IR bands.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Does the wavelength of absorbed and re-emitted IR change or is it re-emitted at the same wavelength?

Edit: I am reading that CO2 most strongly absorbs at the 15um wavelength and so does water so it falls back to water not reflecting much IR. This means the oceans would see less effect from the greenhouse effect.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

Quote (TugboatEng)

Does the wavelength of absorbed and re-emitted IR change or is it re-emitted at the same wavelength?

It depends on conditions such as the vibration state of the molecule when the IR photon is absorbed, the temperature, etc.

Quote (TugboatEng)

This means the oceans would see less effect from the greenhouse effect.

Uh, no. It does not mean that.

The IR that CO2 molecules absorb is re-emitted. It is not captured forever. An IR photon strikes a CO2 molecule and its energy changes the vibration state of that molecule. Which vibration state results depends on a bunch of factors that don't matter in this discussion. After some small period of time, the CO2 molecule will return to its base vibration state- and when that happens it emits an IR photon that can be at any one of several wavelengths depending on again a bunch of factors that don't matter for the scope of this discussion.

Less IR escaping the atmosphere means warmer water. Period. Settled. There is no debate. It's simple physics. The fact that it blows up your political point of view on this issue, that you don't understand and don't care to take the time to understand, or that you just don't like it absolutely does not matter. It is a physical reality of the universe we occupy. The fact that continue to argue this point is just continuing to demonstrate that you are out of your depth, and are motivated solely by your politics. Give it up.

RE: Things are Starting to Heat Up - Part X

(OP)

Quote (This means the oceans would see less effect from the greenhouse effect.)


The seem to be heating up a tad... should they be heating up more? ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

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