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Earthquake
2

Earthquake

Earthquake

(OP)
At least 139 dead and 800 injured in Turkey and Syria after enormous earthquake causes devastation

https://euroweeklynews.com/2023/02/06/update-at-le...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

This area has been super active last night,
M 7.8 - 26 km E of Nurdağı, Turkey; Time 2023-02-05 20:17:35 (UTC-05:00)
M 7.5 - 4 km SSE of Ekinözü, Turkey; Time 2023-02-06 05:24:49 (UTC-05:00)
and many smaller.
https://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/map/?exten...


I will let others start a discussion of the politics of Turkish Building Codes. At least one reinforced concrete building pancaked (dik's link). We learned this expensive lesson in California, the building codes are improved. However the life cycle of buildings incorporates the improvement slowly into the building stock..

RE: Earthquake

The earth doesn't look like its finished adjusting itself either with that 7.5 recently.

Thanks for posting that link.

RE: Earthquake

They are saying 4200 buildings were destroyed. The fatalities must be 10x the 2300 reported so far.

RE: Earthquake

A 7.6 EQ in 1999 in Turkey killed 17-18K

RE: Earthquake

isn't there oil pipelines in that area?

RE: Earthquake

There are a few. The big one, the BTC pipeline, goes around that area we'll to the North up through Sivas and Erzincan.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

Absolutely devastating earthquakes.

From the videos of the building collapses, it seems a lot have failed due to a soft-storey mechanism.

What is the common lateral stability system in this region / construction era?

RE: Earthquake

Following the 1994 Northridge earthquake considerable work was done to discover (reverse engineer) the observed failure modes. Problems were observed in both steel and concrete moment frames, this resulted in our codes in earthquake prone areas being revised to account for the observed loads.

I wounder about the building code situation with respect to earthquake design and enforcement thereof in Turkey. Note this part of turkey has been in political duress for a Long Time, so it is unlikely that the building code situation has priority with the political process.

The Northridge earthquake exposed flaws in the Getty’s construction—and changed how LA builds; If it hadn’t been for what was observed after Northridge, and the Getty’s commitment, nothing might have been fixed; By Jenna Chandler@jennakchandler Jan 17, 2020, 9:35am PST

The Northridge Earthquake and Structures Jack Moehle

NIST Report Report of building performance during the Northridge earthquake attached.


A case has been opened, but data is minimal as of this writing. 2023-02-06 | [EMSR648] Earthquake in East Anatolian Fault Zone

RE: Earthquake

The other problem is even if there are building codes is if the buildings meet them as you say enforcement

Baksheesh rules in Turkey.

RE: Earthquake

Enforcement! Like I told someone recently who asked about this, there should be no excuse regarding enforcement. If you can afford to build multi-story construction then you can afford to have proper enforcement. That applies to all parties from the AHJ down to the owner and contractors. There is no amount of money or effort that can be said to justify this enormous loss of life. Additional costs to get good seismic performance are a small % of total building costs. Stop building multi story construction without proper codes and enforcement!

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
Look at what happened with the Miami collapse... and that's a civilised country...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

How does enforcement work in areas that are in political disarray?
NEWS EXPLAINER; 06 February 2023; Update 07 February 2023: Turkey–Syria earthquake: what scientists know, Turkey and Syria’s buildings have always been vulnerable to earthquakes, but war has made things worse.

Quote (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-023-00364-y)

In 1999, a magnitude-7.4 earthquake hit 11 kilometres southeast of Izmit, Turkey, killing more than 17,000 people and leaving more than 250,000 homeless. After this tragedy, the Turkish government introduced new building codes and a compulsory earthquake insurance system. However, many of the buildings affected by this week’s quake were built before 2000, says Mustafa Erdik, a civil engineer at Boğaziçi University, Turkey.

Things are worse in Syria, where more than 11 years of conflict have made building standards impossible to enforce. The earthquake struck Syria’s northwestern regions, with buildings collapsing in Aleppo and Idlib. Some war-damaged buildings in Syria have been rebuilt using low-quality materials or “whatever materials are available”, says Rothery. “They might have fallen down more readily than things that were built at somewhat greater expense. We’ve yet to find out,” he adds.

Clearing sub par buildings by letting earthquakes take them down is effective, but it is really expensive in lives. sad

RE: Earthquake

A life in the region is not expensive. In fact in Syria in the affected region it holds a negative value.

RE: Earthquake

Structural folk question:

Earlier post said a small % increase in cost would be helpful.
What sort of added percentage would be required to make say, a ten-story apartment block earthquake resistant (not earthquake proof)?

Heard a local Turk saying 'no cement'.

Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.

RE: Earthquake

(OP)

Quote (Heard a local Turk saying 'no cement'.)


I don't know what the reference is. Is the local Turk saying that concrete buildings should not be used? You can make buildings fairly resistant to anticipated quakes.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

I assumed he meant mortar between bricks/blocks.

Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.

RE: Earthquake

Not sure exactly what science he used to predict the Turkish earthquake, but apparently a Dutch scientist posted his prediction on Twitter three-days before the quake hit. His estimate was that it would be a magnitude 7.5 quake and he provided a map with the exact epicenter marked:

How did a seismologist predict the Turkey earthquake 3 days earlier?

A Dutch researcher predicted that an earthquake would hit the region, highlighting with almost exact precision the epicenter of the quake that would soon strike.


https://www.jpost.com/international/article-730932

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Earthquake

He said "sooner or later". Could have been 100 years, but it was 3 days. There are many places on earth which will sooner or later have big earthquakes.

RE: Earthquake

Pud, dik, I think he meant no concrete, as in building with wood and alternate lighter materials, Japanese style paper walls etc.

I lived in Turkey on the 13th floor for two years; design/construct BTC Pipeline. 3 earthquakes during that time. Not pleasant.

This one is really terrible. I can't watch the news.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

My interpretation of "no cement", would be just that, no cement or little cement in the concrete. But I doubt many of us here know much about Turkish building structure practices.

RE: Earthquake

Thanks Hokie, that makes better sense of the comment about 'no cement".

Politicians like to panic, they need activity. It is their substitute for achievement.

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
Safe buildings?

https://www.bbc.com/news/64568826

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
Thanks, Hokie...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

Quote (JohnRBaker)

Not sure exactly what science he used to predict the Turkish earthquake, but apparently a Dutch scientist posted his prediction on Twitter three-days before the quake hit.

"Critical Planetary Geometry" So I'm not quite ready to call that science. Perhaps, someday, we'll find that the interaction of slight gravitational pulls from planets in our solar system have an influence on plate tectonics, but I'm guessing that's still somewhere on the fringes of the fringes of what we might even consider a reasonable hypothesis.

RE: Earthquake

Yes, it would seem to be similar to something that many people here in SoCal seem to believe, something that's referred to as 'Shake & Bake'. This is because there have been several incidents of medium to strong earthquakes occurring during periods of unseasonably high temperatures. Like the Northridge 6.7 quake in February 1994. Not necessarily actual high temps, just very hot periods during a time of year when it should be cooler.

This 'theory' kind of got started when the 5.9 Whittier Narrows quake hit on October 1st, 1987. It was just a few minutes before 8:00am when I pulled into the office parking lot and as I was turning off my car I felt the jolt. At first I thought it was the engine 'running on' or dieseling (I was driving an older Plymouth Horizon at the time) but when I got out of my car, I saw people starting to run out of our building (my office was on the 5th floor, so if I had gotten to work a few minutes earlier, it would have been a pretty good 'ride'). Anyway, they evacuated the building and we all had to report to our designated 'safe areas' while they accounted for everyone. Despite it being early in the morning, it was already over 100˚ (hence the 'Shake & Bake' theory). And we were told not to leave as they wanted to keep the streets clear in case first responders needed to be deployed. This was also before anyone had cell phones so we couldn't call home or talk to our family members to see how they were doing.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Earthquake

I briefly stared into that rabbit hole this morning. They talk a lot about "atmospheric fluctuations" and have real time charts of "atmospheric charge" over the Netherlands...and then proceed to never tell you what either of them actually mean. Just that these "fluctuations" announce likely zones of seismic activity. I was half expecting to see a "paper" on how these fluctuations also impact the disbursement of chem trails...

RE: Earthquake

the location at which the chem trails cross is the location of expected earthquake activity, with the magnitude proportional to the number of witnesses seeing the chem trails ............

RE: Earthquake

The use of “first class quality” building materials does not give assurance that earthquake resistance is more than minimal. Dynamics of seismic movement is the issue, and it requires complex understanding, design, and detailing. Techniques which have been developed in New Zealand, Japan, and California are not well understood by all engineers, and that is likely the case with seismic design in the Middle East.

RE: Earthquake

Use of “first class quality”, is not enough to get earthquake proof construction.

RE: Earthquake

What's the world coming to? It appears that one of our most dour members actually had something good to say about California.

I’ll see your silver lining and raise you two black clouds. - Protection Operations

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
I wonder how Millennium Towers would have fared? ponder

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
Northridge was a real 'eye opener', even up in Canada... and, in hind site, I'm really glad it was only a 6.7...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

Dour, David? I’ve been called worse, but not that.

RE: Earthquake

In my limited experience with Turkish construction practices, I can say that even if things are designed properly, there is no guarantee all contractors will build everything according to plans. Engineers and inspectors requiring contractors to build exactly according to plans might not last through to project completion.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

I am currently in Osmaniye & my plantr is unfinished chloralklai project. Fortunately nothing happened to my chemical plant. However I would like any standard that relates or discusses chemical machinery or equipments vis-a-vis earthquakes

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
I don't know what standards apply, but I would think for a chemical plant, they would be quite stringent.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

Turkey arrests building contractors 6 days after quakes

Quote (Link above)

ANTAKYA, Turkey (AP) — Turkish officials detained or issued arrest warrants for some 130 people allegedly involved in shoddy and illegal construction methods ...
... Erdogan acknowledged earlier in the week that the initial response has been hampered by the extensive damage. He said the worst-affected area was 500 kilometers (310 miles) in diameter and was home to 13.5 million people in Turkey. ...

Quote (https://apnews.com/article/politics-2023-turkey-sy...)

... In 2021, the Chamber of Geological Engineers of Turkey published a series of reports raising red flags about existing buildings and new construction taking place in areas leveled by this week’s quakes, including Kahramanmaras, Hatay and Osmaniye. The Chamber urged the government to conduct studies to ensure that buildings were up to code and built on safe locations.

A year earlier, the Chamber issued a report that directly called out policies of “slum amnesty, construction amnesty” as dangerous and warned that “indifference to disaster safety culture” would lead to preventable deaths. ...
"The Building Inspector (AHJ) is not your (the owners) inspector". Even in the US where we have a mostly functional building inspection system, I always recommend the owner hire his own inspector.

RE: Earthquake

FaceEngrPE: Your building inspector is your last line of defense! Hiring your own inspector is really a good recommendation. I have suggested that to clients years ago. But good inspectors have called the EOR and saved a lot of grief. In LA an inspector called me about a 6 foot diameter caisson being poured. Only thing was that I was still arguing with the geotech about where the competent passive pressure began below the top of the soil. (turned out to be about 10 feet!). But the inspector said that the concrete trucks were there. Send them back.

Know of one inspector who caught a major error on a new hospital.(California). Lotta grief for some people but the inspector was correct. Don't know who missed the error during the rigorius plan check by a number of agencies.

This is a terrible tragedy. Apparently warnings from the Turkish engineering professionals were not heeded but it does take time to motivate the proper people.

RE: Earthquake

They are lifting sanctions on Syria to allow relief Aid in.

RE: Earthquake

Seems to me Turkey is a little quick to arrest people.

Here in the United States, when a building collapses, we take lots of samples and think about things for a couple of years. And maybe pass a couple of new laws.



spsalso

RE: Earthquake

There are many countries where innocence is not presumed and they follow the "Arrest first, ask questions later" policy. Most turn out to be guilty anyway, so it works pretty well. They usually get credit for time served too.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

The Turkish legal system must work differently than what I am used to, but as several of the persons were picked up in airports seemingly attempting to flee the EU, some of the arrests are not wholly unreasonable.

My opinion is that the persons enabling "construction amnesty" for structures known not to meet code requirements should be prosecuted, before going after contractors. I wounder if a building having received "construction amnesty" would impede legal action against the constructor of the building?

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
Yup... them, too. Everyone in the food line... including government officials. I don't know how they are now, but 50 years back, they had some interesting legal protocols. Interesting military service. If you were born of Turkish parents, you had to serve, or you could be arrested... didn't matter where you were born, or where you were living. You could, however, pay a 'fine' to be exempt.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

This building on the right caught my eye on a news story about slow delivery of aid to Syria. A lot of the buildings look like soft story failure at the base, but in this particular building, the platform base held up despite the failure of the upper stories.

RE: Earthquake

A great read exposing builders mafia
https://www.dawn.com/news/1736837/turkiyes-tragedy

Turkish engineer Pelin Giritliogu said that in the southern earthquake zone alone, there were over 75,000 buildings that had availed the construction amnesties. Once the rescue efforts wind down, investigations will reveal how many of these buildings actually survived, as compared with the few buildings that were built according to code. One example of such a building was found in the city of Kahraman­maras, where the sole building left erect was the Chamber of Civil Engi­neers, standing tall amid a devastated city.

RE: Earthquake

(OP)

Quote (there were over 75,000 buildings that had availed the construction amnesties)


If I were an insurance company, I'd be looking at voiding any insurance claims for these buildings.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

Reminds me of an experience several years ago in Turkey. Purely anecdotal, but perhaps applicable. In my wanders, I bought a hat in a shop, then a belt in another shop. Both shopkeepers were friendly and obviously intelligent young men. In our conversations, both disclosed they were trained in civil engineering, but could not find a job working in that field.

RE: Earthquake

dik,

Insurance? What's that?

RE: Earthquake

As dysfunctional as our system here in the States feels at times, things like this are a good reminder of how good we have it. Most contractors don't like the structural engineer, but the system enforces our standards at least to a level that I don't have to sell hats and belts for a living.

It's a shame that it takes a disaster to open people's eyes to the dangers that are around them, and the consequences of ignoring them. Hopefully some other country or city will learn from this and not have to live (and die) through another lesson...

RE: Earthquake

Iinsha Allah, si Dios quiere, or some other variation of as God wills is the norm. Insurance isn't a big part of daily life. In fact it's not unheard of to be considered as a lack of faith.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

Quote (hokie66)


Both shopkeepers were friendly and obviously intelligent young men. In our conversations, both disclosed they were trained in civil engineering, but could not find a job working in that field.

When I was working for EDS back in 1994, I spent nearly a week in Moscow visiting existing and potential customers. Since we were part of the GM family of companies, we shared office space with them. And when I arrived at the airport and when I had to get back for my flight home, GM provided a car and driver. On my way back to the airport I got to talking to the driver, who was a very proud Muscovite, and he showed me several historical sites during the drive. Anyway, the conversation got around to how he got a job driving for GM (his English was very good and he spoke like he was well educated). When I asked what he did before he got this job, he said he had worked as an engineer at a 'nuclear facility'.

After I got home, I was talking which one of my colleagues working it that office and I asked him about the driver. He told me that after the Soviet Union collapsed, foreign companies doing business in Russia were asked if they could hire certain individuals who had lost their jobs but who had certain skills which other groups/countries might be willing to pay money for. They would prefer that that they stay in Russia, and that they were earning enough to support their families so that they didn't have to get involved with these 'other' potential 'employers'. Now in the driver's case, it wasn't that he couldn't find employment in his field, just that the government preferred that he had a good-paying job doing anything but what he had been trained for.

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Earthquake

Iomcube - The American Petroleum Institute also provides guidance on storage tanks on seimic locations.

RE: Earthquake

This earthquake was the same magnitude as the 1906 San Francisco quake. About 800 died in that quake.

All this with blatant disregard for earthquake standards, of which there were none.



spsalso

RE: Earthquake

Quote (Spsalso)

Seems to me Turkey is a little quick to arrest people.

Yeah it’s a standard scapegoating exercise like you see in backwards counties. Round up a bunch of people, and declare them the culprits.

RE: Earthquake

At least that is better than here, we never seem to find the cause and no one is blamed, or arrested, and new laws are passed, and everything costs more. Or maybe the news media is just that inept to not report anything important.

RE: Earthquake

While magnitudes may have been equal, earthquakes can still vary widely in scale and response. I think this is quite a greater affected area. The SF quake originated offshore, this one directly below. 10km 6mi down is very close. Population of SF in 1906 was 400,000. At 5am SF was asleep in their single story wooden framed houses, probably not many living in 4-8+ story CMU/concrete buildings. In fact I think magnitude might be the only similarity.

Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

(OP)

Quote (Yeah it’s a standard scapegoating exercise like you see in backwards counties. Round up a bunch of people, and declare them the culprits.)


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

Apparently the plague of poorly constructed buildings did not effect all of Turkey:

The city that didn't collapse: How Erzin became a haven from Turkey's earthquake

Residents and officials say Erzin suffered no deaths and saw no buildings collapse, and they credit a long-standing policy not to allow construction that violated the country’s codes.


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/erzin-turkey-ea...

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
The engineering association building was standing, with minimal damage, among the rubble... so, good buildings are not out of the question; there just has to be the wherewithal...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

The point made above about the makup of the rock the earthquake propagates through being as important as the initial quake strength was one of the findings following the North Anna earthquake. The physics of ground motion are the same everywhere, subject to local geology.

Our response well to the lessons of the CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, EARTHQUAKE OF 1886 for nearly 100 years was a matter of fits and starts. Hopefully our house is in better order now.

Quote (https://www.usgs.gov/news/featured-story/10-year-a...)

Although not the strongest earthquake to have occurred in the eastern U.S., let alone the western U.S., the Virginia earthquake was likely felt by more people than any earthquake in North America’s history. This is due to the large distances at which people felt ground shaking and because of the density of the population in the eastern U.S.
...
“Subsequent research identified that the underlying sediment is what led to amplified shaking,” Pratt said. “We were familiar with that phenomena on the West Coast of the U.S. and internationally, but the Mineral earthquake showed the significance of this effect in the eastern U.S. The areas on sediment received significantly stronger shaking than nearby locations on firmer rock.”
...
The Mineral earthquake demonstrated how much farther ground shaking can extend in the eastern U.S. than in the western U.S. The eastern U.S. has older rocks that are harder and often denser, and faults on those older rocks have had more time to heal, allowing seismic waves to cross them more efficiently when an earthquake occurs.

Impact of local geological condition is also presented in STUDIES RELATED TO CHARLESTON, SOUTH CAROLINA, EARTHQUAKE OF 1886 available at the USGS publication library .

RE: Earthquake

Yes, this is one reason, despite the fact that we have so many quakes in California (in the last 24 hours, there have been 48 quakes in the state that were magnitude 1.0 or greater), that most people never feel much of anything. There are so many faults in the ground here on the west coast that when a quake does occur, the radius of where the shake is felt is not as great as many would expect. So unless it's a significant quake, most people within 50 miles probably won't ever feel a thing.

Here's a map showing the known faults here in SoCal:

John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:

The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without

RE: Earthquake


Most earthquakes in Turkey occur along the North Anatolian fault and end where my BTC pipeline crosses on the Erzincan to Erzurum route. They have had a very steady westwardly progression for a long time. This turned things around considerably.


Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

"While magnitudes may have been equal, earthquakes can still vary widely in scale and response. I think this is quite a greater affected area. The SF quake originated offshore, this one directly below. 10km 6mi down is very close."

How far offshore was it?


"Population of SF in 1906 was 400,000. At 5am SF was asleep in their single story wooden framed houses, probably not many living in 4-8+ story CMU/concrete buildings. In fact I think magnitude might be the only similarity."

From this we may see that it is safer to live in "single story wooden framed houses" than "4/8+ story CMJ/concrete buildings".

Lucky for the residents of San Francisco, there were very few of the latter.


spsalso

RE: Earthquake

The area affected is the size of England for another. Only the largest was 7.8. There were many others.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

Soft story structures. San Francisco has them too.
https://youtu.be/TnlCRoBAcuw


--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

The new gorge is tremendous.
https://youtu.be/IiDvo-xTinY

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

Full scale shake table tests
https://youtu.be/nGV_JS9j4JE

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

6.2 and 5.8 EQs on 2/20/23 and more bldgs damaged

RE: Earthquake

The Ceyhan Oil Export Terminal has sustained damage of some kind from the latest quake, forcing a shutdown of the BTC Pipeline. The terminal is located across the gulf from the site of last week's earthquake. The pipeline has a capacity of at least 1MM BPD.

Force Majeure Brings A Halt to Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan (BTC) Oil Pipeline
https://www.pipeline-journal.net/news/force-majeur...

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
When you see the extent of the damage to the soil, you realise that a pipline (or a nuclear facility) could not sustain such deformation intact.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

Yeah. It's just a tremendous amount of damage. Latest I've seen is up to 700,000 homes and apartments destroyed or severely damaged beyond habitability.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

That's just getting cruel.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

There has been a few earthquakes not so large around europe recently. 5.4 in Wales in the UK.

RE: Earthquake

Turkey widens probe into building collapses as quake toll exceeds 50,000; February 26, 2023

Quote (Linked page)

Those formally arrested and remanded in custody include 79 construction contractors, 74 people who bear legal responsibility for buildings, 13 property owners and 18 people who had made alterations to buildings,

Quote (Linked webpage)

More than 160,000 buildings containing 520,000 apartments collapsed or were severely damaged in Turkey

2023-02-10 | Information Bulletin 165 - The Copernicus Emergency Management Service assesses the damage caused by the earthquake in Türkiye EMSR648: Earthquake in East Anatolian Fault Zone

maps of 20 locations are now posted. Along with a final report (attached). The final report only covers the specific locations activated, and the initial earthquake.

RE: Earthquake

@FacEngrPE

these probes are probably going to show that it was no fault of the Turkist goverment and only catch small fisk entrepreneurs (not "frinds" of Erdogan) and small time bureaucrats. Part of Erdogans original platform were reforms after a 1999.

--- Best regards, Morten Andersen

RE: Earthquake

I am not going to hold my breath waiting to see the results. The 2023 Turkish general election is scheduled to take place on 18 June 2023, so what happens after the elections is going to be a better indication of the countries resolve to effectively deal with building codes corruption.

Meanwhile nature is still clearing the field of earthquake damaged structures.
New quake hits Turkey, toppling more buildings: 1 killed; feb 27 2022 This one was a 5.2 aftershock.

RE: Earthquake

No building or any other structure would have stood a chance where that gorge opened up near the city of Antalya. See the utube video linked by 1503-44 above, 19 Feb, 2118.

RE: Earthquake

(OP)

Quote (The areas on sediment received significantly stronger shaking than nearby locations on firmer rock.)


When a shock wave goes for dense to less dense material, the amplitude increases dramatically.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

"No building or any other structure would have stood a chance where that gorge opened up near the city of Antalya. See the utube video linked by 1503-44 above, 19 Feb, 2118."

Yes. Which likely explains why no one thought it a great idea to build one there.


spsalso

RE: Earthquake

Probably just luck. The Romans had no idea that Vesuvius was a volcano, but judging by the number of people still there and on the near slopes of Etna and on the San Andreas fault, etc. etc., other factors are apparently far more concerning when it comes to chosing a building location.

At least the volcano some 15km from me is 99.975% "dead". It still emmits some gas occasionally. I'm not too worried. I have not bought insurance coverage for lava flows or earthquakes.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

Quote (MortenA)

these probes are probably going to show that it was no fault of the Turkist goverment and only catch small fisk entrepreneurs (not "frinds" of Erdogan) and small time bureaucrats.

Yeah that’s how it plays out in backward countries. Its a political exercise designed to put the blame in the most expedient location. The fact that arrests happened immediately was so ridiculous.

RE: Earthquake

Since most people in these backward countries are likely aware of "how things are done", I am guessing that these arrests are actually aimed outwards, towards other governments and especially investors.


spsalso

RE: Earthquake

(OP)
I suspect the arrests will be political, too... try to make Erdogan look good for the upcoming election.

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik

RE: Earthquake

There ain't that much lipstick. His inverse interest rate policy has inflation at nearly 100%/yr and the country is nearly broke.

--Einstein gave the same test to students every year. When asked why he would do something like that, "Because the answers had changed."

RE: Earthquake

A pretty decent follow-up on one of the building failures in Turkey:

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/05/11/wor...


Inadequate design
Use of self-inspection
A clueless city council
A chief building inspector that didn't do much of anything

Poor construction quality may well show up later

Remind you of a certain building collapse in Florida?


spsalso

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