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SE vs Architect license question 1

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hemiv

hemiv

Structural
Dec 7, 2018
93
Maybe some of you have been in this boat before. I am currently working alongside an architect as part of a design firm. We have been invited to give a proposal in a neighboring state (IL) for a small building. He has a license there, but I do not have the SE (PE only). However, reading the state laws, apparently architects can perform structural design and stamp the drawings in IL? This seems like a fishy situation, but one in which some multi-service architectural and engineering firms might find themselves. Is it illegal for me to perform this design "under" his license? In no way do I want to be in violation of the law in IL, as I am currently in the process of getting the SE.
 
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If the architect is competent enough in structural design to serve as the engineer of record for the project, I think it would be fine. You would essentially be working under their license. If they are not competent enough in structural design to serve as the engineer of record for the project, then in my opinion, that would be a violation.
 
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When I first started engineering, Architects and Engineers could do the same work. I've done many buildings, including high rise apartments where an architect was not involved... the ugly 5 or 6 storey apartment down the street is an example. I told the developer that he should retain an architect... my aesthetics are terrible, and one of my first buildings. I feel comfortable with that, but the rules have since changed.

This was another one I did about 50 years back...

Clipboard01_dtkxyk.jpg


-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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Illinois statutes:
[blue]Illinois Architecture Practice Act
Architects cannot practice land surveying or professional engineering in Illinois unless
licensed as a land surveyor or professional engineer. Architects can practice structural
engineering, ancillary to an architecture project and when properly qualified to do so but
may not use the title “structural engineer.”
[/blue]

Not sure a "small building" is ancillary to an architecture project - I'd be inclined to call the local AHJ or municipal code official to see what they think.



 
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In Manitoba... generally less than 3 storeys and having an area of less than 6000 sq.ft, if I recall...

-----*****-----
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates

-Dik
 
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If you are both employees of the same firm, I don't see a problem with the Architect sealing and signing the drawings.

DaveAtkins
 
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I agree with JAE. I'm not sure how you can consider structural engineering of a complete building as "ancillary". In my mind something that qualifies as ancillary would be a new header for a new opening for a tenant improvement project or something similar. It needs to be a minor part of a larger project. For a new building I'm having trouble envisioning anything that the structural engineering would be ancillary.
 
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I think the decision is ultimately up to the Architect as it is their license being used. I agree with JAE, contact the jurisdiction to confirm and get it in writing.
 
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It is not significantly uglier than a lot of 1970s strip mall types of construction I've seen!
 
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I think it is safer to get SE license just to be on safe side of things.
 
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In NJ architects can sign pretty much anything an engineer can do and the building departments will accept it. The only thing that they cannot sign off on is pile certification, that has to be done by a PE. But things vary place to place so YMMV and I'd defer to what JAE posted above.
 
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hemiv -

Have you gone through NCEES? Generally speaking they can make the process of getting licensed in other states much easier. Basically, they validate all of your experience, licensures, passed exams (FE, PE, etc). That way, if your experience meets the qualifications of a PE in Illinois, then you can get your licensing fairly easily.
 
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Josh, one caveat to that is that Illinois requires anything structural to be an SE, not a PE - so you need to pass the 16 hour SE exam to practice structural engineering in Illinois, having your PE won't help in this situation.
 
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