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Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?
2

Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)
It is mentioned in our project specification that all full penetration weld used in shop splice connection shall be inspected by 100% UT or RT.But I didn't find any support provisions in AWS D1.1.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Is the project specification also your customer's specification?

The devil is in the details; she also wears prada.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Quote (AWS D1.1 - 2020)

Section 8.15 Extent of Testing
Information furnished to the bidders shall clearly identify the extent of NDT (types, categories, or location) of welds to
be tested.
8.15.1 Full Testing. Weld joints requiring testing by contract specification shall be tested for their full length, unless
partial or spot testing is specified.

As you stated, the project specification is specifying which welds need to be inspected, just like D1.1 indicates it should do.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Doesn't matter what D1.1 says....if the person paying wants it, they get it.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Many owners/engineers specify additional requirements above and beyond Codes. It is their prerogative. They may be taking in account past experience and service conditions which mandate them.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

He who holds the gold makes the rules.

To paraphrase AWS D1.1: If NDE, other than VT, is required by the Engineer, it has to be included in the project specifications and must indicated what is to be subjected to volumetric NDE. If the Engineer requests NDE other than VT once the contract is signed, the contractor is entitled to compensation at an agreed to rate that would include preparation, handling, and the repair of any defects detected.

Al

Best regards - Al

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (gtaw)

Thank you. But are there any recommended requirements in codes and manuals?

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

There are many similar requirements in ISO codes.
Here's a very commonly applied table in Europe.



EXC stands for execution class (1 => 4), the higher the number the more stringent the requirements.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Section N5.5 of AISC 360 (Steel Construction Manual) has the following requirements:

5. Nondestructive Testing of Welded Joints

5a. Procedures
Ultrasonic testing (UT), magnetic particle testing (MT), penetrant testing (PT), and
radiographic testing (RT), where required, shall be performed by QA in accordance
with AWS D1.1/D1.1M.

5b. CJP Groove Weld NDT
For structures in risk category III or IV, UT shall be performed by QA on all complete-
joint-penetration (CJP) groove welds subject to transversely applied tension
loading in butt, T- and corner joints, in material 5/16 in. (8 mm) thick or greater. For
structures in risk category II, UT shall be performed by QA on 10% of CJP groove
welds in butt, T- and corner joints subject to transversely applied tension loading, in
materials 5/16 in. (8 mm) thick or greater.


If you are getting into seismic requirements, then AISC 341 would also apply which has the following requirements:

2. NDT of Welded Joints
In addition to the requirements of Specification Section N5.5, nondestructive testing
of welded joints shall be as required in this section.
2a. CJP Groove Weld NDT
Ultrasonic testing (UT) shall be performed on 100% of complete-joint-penetration
(CJP) groove welds in materials c in. (8 mm) thick or greater. UT in materials less
than c in. (8 mm) thick is not required. Weld discontinuities shall be accepted or
rejected on the basis of AWS D1.1/D1.1M Table 6.2. Magnetic particle testing (MT)
shall be performed on 25% of all beam-to-column CJP groove welds. The rate of
UT and MT is permitted to be reduced in accordance with Sections J6.2g and J6.2h,
respectively.
Exception: For ordinary moment frames in structures in risk categories I or II, UT and
MT of CJP groove welds are required only for demand critical welds.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (dauwerda)

Your reply is extremely helpful. I want to further inquire, if UT OR RT is applicable to T-joint.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (dauwerda)

Where is section 2 located?

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (dauwerda)

Is UT applicable to T joint weld as the above picture´╝čIt is said that PT is widely used in T joint weld between column flange and base plate.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

RT cannot be done with any useful information obtained on the corner joint shown.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (weldstan)

Corner joint and T joint shall be 2 types of groove welds.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Are those welds really spec'ced as groove welds?

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

I might add that while UT can be performed, you may not obtain useful information unless it is performed by a truly competent and experienced examiner using the proper methods of UT.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (Kingnero)

100% sure.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (weldstan)

But it is clearly specified in AISC 360-2016 N5.5b that UT is applicable to T joint weld. Here weld between column flange and base plate is T joint groove weld.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Weldstan is correct. UT is doable, but is isn't clear cut. You'll need a decent, approved procedure and an experienced UT operator.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Quote (tmgczb)

Is UT applicable to T joint weld as the above picture´╝čIt is said that PT is widely used in T joint weld between column flange and base plate.
Yes UT is applicable.

Quote (weldstan)

I might add that while UT can be performed, you may not obtain useful information unless it is performed by a truly competent and experienced examiner using the proper methods of UT.
Wouldn't this be true for any joint configuration?

tmgczb, I am not an expert in UT but I know the fabricator I work with performs this type of UT inspection everyday.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (dauwerda)

What about beam to column groove weld? UT applicable or not? The weld between beam flange and column flange is also T joint.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

dauwerda; butt welds are easily examined by UT, but not fillet welds and corner/tee welds with reinforcing fillets. I have often seen reject rates plummet when using UT on butt welds compared to that of RT.

We had problems with a manufacturer of cranes whose UT of Tee joints were all acceptable; however, some welds were found cracked upon receipt at the job site. I hired a well-respected Level III and he was able to find cracks and other linear flaws in welds made at the involved fabricator. Whenever I absolutely required UT to be performed because of the service conditions, I would make mock ups with flaws to be examined by prospective Level III or equivalent examiners. He/she who found the flaws was hired to perform the work.













RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

AWS requirements can be called out for a bridge, a train, a building, a highway sign, a sculpture, or a billion other application.

They can be called out for things that are built once, or thousands of times.

They can be call out for things that have huge safety factors applied, or things that must be be as light as possible while remaining safe for infinite life or a know number of cycles.

They can be called out for things that have tragic consequences if they fail, or things where failure is a minor inconvenience.

The good people who write the AWS requirements (including friends and colleagues of mine) do not know what your application is.

Because they do not know what your application is, they wrote the requirements so that then can be applied to any application.

Applied by knowledgeable engineers that understand their application and the implications of their decisions.

When applied by non-knowledgeable engineers the consequences can range from tragic to unnecessary cost.

Codes and standards are not a substitute for engineering.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

I saw 3m long beams made in two sections with full penetration welds and 0% NDE. Why not in a section?
I required (as inspector) 100% UT/RT. The evaluation was according to ASME VIII Div. 1
This was not a reputable fabricator.

Regards

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

I don't know how to do the "quote" option so copy and paste.

Doesn't matter what D1.1 says....if the person paying wants it, they get it.

david339933 nailed it - better you stop wasting time looking for an "out" based on the code and comply with the project specification.
That overrules the code anyway.

I have spent the past 12 years on structural projects in S/E Asia for Australian clients and there are numerous references to 100% NDT of splices in the AS codes.
I didn't mention anything as you noted AWS D1.1

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

(OP)

Quote (DekDee)

Kindly please mention something.

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

AWS D1.1 2015
Clause 2: Design of Welded Connections
Table 2.5 : Fatigue Stress Design Parameters
Section 5: Welded Joints transverse to direction of stress
5.1, 5.2, 5.3, 5.4, 5.6, 5.7 & 5.8 show a variety of splices and they are all Stress Category B or C

2.19 Inspection
Fatigue categories B and C require that the Engineer ensure
that CJP groove welds subject to cyclic transverse
applied stress into the tensile range be inspected using
Radiographic Testing (RT) or Ultrasonic Testing (UT).

RE: Is 100% UT or RT required to full penetration weld?

Inspection during manufacturing is the key.
Most welding productions require daily inspections prior to UT or RT. Preheating before welding is rarely done when the buyer's inspector is away.
I found (several times) personnel not qualified as welder.

Regards

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