Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
(OP)
If they are as bad as some of the UK bunkers I don't blame the locals wanting them empty.
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2...
https://www.militarytimes.com/news/your-military/2...
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Oh built 1940 so 80 yers old.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Hazardous Waste Cleanup: Virginia Emergency Fuel Storage Facility in Yorktown, Virginia
Constructed March 1943, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheatham_Annex
This 460-acre state-owned facility has been abandoned since 1982. The site is located within a few miles of popular tourist attractions (Colonial Williamsburg National Historic Park, Jamestown Settlement and Busch Gardens ) in and around Williamsburg, Virginia. Recognizing the value of this large piece of land, York County is interested in turning the abandoned land into productive use.
The Virginia Emergency Fuel Storage Facility, York County, Virginia, was formerly owned by the Navy and was a part of the Navy's Cheatham Annex. The 460-acre Facility contains 23 two-million-gallon underground tanks and several miles of underground fuel lines. Between 1973 and early 1980s, the Virginia Department Of Emergency Services (VDES) leased the Facility from the Navy to store fuels during the energy crisis.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
https://www.greenlifestylemarket.com/2018/06/14/fi...
https://www.militarytimes.com/2019/07/14/heres-an-...
Go to the interactive map
https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/pfas_contamin...
Trump's Forever Chemical reporting loopholes
https://www.ewg.org/news-insights/news-release/202...
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
The military used to have a thing called crown exemption which was removed about then.
The mil fuel pipelines though are not the best and they are trying to decide what to do with them. Mind you the civi ones are getting near then end of life as well.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
I hear if you mix in some kool-aid you cant even taste the MTBE.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
That was just one episode in an interesting Good news/Bad news (or the other way round, depending on your perspective) story.
When Section 10 of the 1947 Crown Proceedings Act was repealed in 1987, it became possible to sue the UK Military for (some) Civil Torts in a way you previously couldn't.
Lots of UK laws now have written in right up at the front that they specifically don't apply to the Armed Forces.
In response to that, successive Secretaries of State for Defence have adopted a policy that "In circumstances where the nature of Defence and Security activities inevitably conflict with health and safety requirements and thus Defence has Derogations, Exemptions, or Dis-applications from HS&EP legislation, or where other circumstances indicate the need for Defence regulation of activities, we maintain Departmental arrangements that produce outcomes that are, so far as reasonably practicable, at least as good as those required by UK legislation."
Though, of course, a SoS has the right to change their policy at five seconds' notice.
Even where laws do still apply, it still isn't possible for (Crown) Enforcing Agencies to prosecute (Crown) Departments of State for breaches of Criminal Law.
It is, however, possible for the Enforcing Authorities to delivery an exquisitely calibrated slap to the wrist in the form of a Crown Censure. Across Government, a couple of these appear most years.
A.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
No point in removing reporting controls for hazardous chemicals. That's how we find out who is dumping it into the water.
UK isn't the highest, but its pretty high.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_...
As Long as we're at it, here's the US superfund site interactive map,
https://www.epa.gov/superfund/search-superfund-sit...
And the toxic air map
https://projects.propublica.org/toxmap/
UK interactive map doesn't work, since it uses Flash player which has been universally depreciated from web service use for a couple of years now.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
That sounds so stupid.
How gasoline do you want in your drinking water? With or without MTBE?
How much benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene would you like to be exposed to on a daily basis?
How’s about we just set the bar somewhere above make the tank not leak?
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Anyways, MTBE really was a Democrats' problem.
https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CRECB-2005-pt1...
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
That’s acute toxicity. Not chronic exposure. And per the US Department of Health and Human Services’ Toxicological Profile for Gasoline, probably isn’t accurate anyway.
But tell me more about how you’d drink a shot of gasoline once a week because it’s not as acutely toxic as ethanol. Woof! Methinks you might have been sprinkling a bit too many lead paint chips on your ice cream when you were a kid.
These other questions still stand. How gasoline do you want in your drinking water? With or without MTBE?
How much benzene, toluene, ethylbenzene and xylene would you like to be exposed to on a daily basis?
How’s about we just set the bar somewhere above make the tank not leak?
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Can I get a show of hands from those of us here that want to drink that?
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
-
Personally I like all of my in-toxicants with just 0.5ml of water
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
https://www.navylookout.com/fuelling-the-fleet-the...
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
I just find it funny that they use the descriptions diesel like and gasoline like when there really should be no question as to what the fuel is.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
https://www.airforcemag.com/article/0910gas/
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
In recent history the Navy has "stored" two fuels, F-76 and JP-5.
This is from a thesis 20 years ago but I'm fairly certain that the US Navy has adopted JP-5 as a universal fuel.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Maybe they should. But it seems pretty academic, doesn’t it?
Seems like a non-sequitur when we should be talking about how the tank shouldn’t leak, regardless.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
They've been talking about it for years, but I don't think it's happened yet. The RN still burns primarily F-76 (AVCAT availability at overseas commercial ports being poor at best) and, in the USN, postgrad students were still salivating over what an attractive idea it would be to move to a JP-5 Single Fuel Concept as recently as 18 months ago.
If it finally happens, I imagine the USN will go first - US forces seem to have much more of a culture than their allies of avoiding reliance on Host Nation Support.
A.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
I would say none of them you would want to wash in or drink.
I must admit though I never really understood the difference between kerosene and diesel.
I know the turbine fuels don't have lubricants in them. But pretty sure that doesn't make them anymore digestible.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
The number of C atoms making up the basically straight chains is the most prominate chemical difference. Specific gravity and boiling point (vapour pressures) are the most prominate physical differences.
Specific gravity ranges from napthas at roughly 0.5 (water=1.0), gasoline 0.65, kerosene 0.8
Diesels SG = 0.89 to 0.95
Gas oils 0.815 to 0.89 (Benzene 0.88 0.9)
Crude oil 35.6o API SG = 0.847
Crude oil 40o API SG = 0.825
Kerosene (Max) SG = 0.82
Jet fuel SG = 0.82
Jet A, Jet A-1 SG = 0.815
Crude oil 40o API SG = 0.805
Crude oil 48o API SG = 0.79
Kerosene (Min) SG = 0.78
Typical Jet B: SG = 0.764
Crude oil 48o API SG = 0.76
Gasoline a 0.74
Gasoline b 0.72
Gasoline c 0.68
Decane-n 0.73
Heptane-n 0.688
Hexane-n 0.664
to SG = 1+ at the bottom of the distilling column (heavy oils, asphalt and bitumens)
with boiling points as indicated.
https://www.petroleumrefine.com/the-crude-oil-frac...]
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Gasoline is very low - basically evaporates / flashes at room temp or below - rather volatile and has a distinct smell and feels quite "dry"
Kerosene is higher - 50-80C, but low enough that you can light it with a match easily, hence used in lights, heaters etc and stoves, but needs bit of heat to make it flammable. Volatility varies, but higher than gasoline. Starts to feel a little bit "oily" and won't vapourise readily if spilled
Diesel is higher still - 120 upwards and is very difficult to light with a match or small energy source. Definite feel of oil / lubrication and hard to vapourise.
But as note din many sources, something like JP4 is a mixture of many of these components of distillation and is built to a set of specifications for SG, colour, smell, flash point, water content, etc and hence being filtered through the ground, any of them could filter out one aspect more than the other.
Being a shore facility, I'm pretty sure in one or two tanks they store or stored gasoline and diesel for other vehicles. you could probably run a diesel engined vehicle on JP5, but I wouldn't like to put it in my petrol engined car...
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
We could run the Bedford 4 tonners on it.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1oaliIduDpQ
Those water heats were lethal.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
https://gcaptain.com/shutdown-worlds-largest-under...
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
No website link. (No. Not in TX)
I also worked on the US Strategic Petroleum Reserve. That's really big. That is the world's largest crude only storage reserve with 30.5B gal (115.5MM m3) (726 MM BBLS).
https://www.energy.gov/fecm/strategic-petroleum-re...
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
When you stand 30m above the floor at one end of a cavern and you see the guys down the far end digging, you know what it feels like to be an ant.
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Any vessel will leak eventually if not maintained.
The story is fascinating: https://youtu.be/lIz8IstwnWU
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
A black swan to a turkey is a white swan to the butcher ... and to Boeing.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Human Error Reportedly Poisoned Hawaii's Water At Pearl Harbor, Navy Says
A U.S. Navy investigation looked at how fuel from a tank farm leaked into a water well.
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/hawaii-water-navy-i...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
TTFN (ta ta for now)
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RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10971801/...
So strange to see the singularity approaching while the entire planet is rapidly turning into a hellscape. -John Coates
-Dik
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEGohRlLrSA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WIBzTfErxw
The associated news article can be found here:
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/07/watch-fuel-spewed-full-blast-into-red-hill-tunnel-in-november/
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
Would this not be the "fire suppression line" that was contaminated on May 6th during the initial fuel transfer mishap and then later damaged on Nov. 20th resulting in the contaminated contents being released and flushed into the drainage system/out into public?
I only skimmed through the initial findings report some time ago and that was my understanding of the general sequence of events.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
I believe the short answer is 'no'. This being the military however it appears the answer is 'sorta'.
Also I would suggest reading the a fore mentioned article starting at the heading labeled "Cracked PVC Pipe Illustrates Contracting Failure". It appears to have quite a bit of detail on this very subject including the fact that this line was not supposed to be constructed from PVC.
https://www.civilbeat.org/2022/07/watch-fuel-spewed-full-blast-into-red-hill-tunnel-in-november/
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
But I'm going to argue that wasn't fuel coming from the pipe. Maybe there was fuel in the pipe trunk and the water caused it to be displaced into the drain system. There may have been 20k gallons of contaminated water? Not 20k gallons of fuel.
A local highrise residential building just had a failure of the fire main which caused evacuation of 1000 residents. Once a main breaks the results are often catastrophic regardless of the fluid.
RE: Naval Fuel tank leak in Hawaii
With all due respect TugboatEng, I feel like you may not have read through all the reports or articles and I believe you may be misunderstanding the sequence of events.
Based on the information that has been released to the public thus far, I've put together some cliff notes regarding the events leading up to the current situation.
Keeping in mind this is my interpretation of the information provided in the reports and my interpretation may very well be incorrect.
May 6th:
- - A operational mistake leads to an over-pressure event in a fuel transfer line causing joint separation in two different locations.
- - As a result, thousands of gallons of fuel is dumped into the service tunnel.
- - The fuel is 'cleaned' from the tunnel.
- - At this point there has been NO environmental release.
Note: The Red Hill tunnels are equipment with fire suppression systems that circulate water and suppression foam in the event of a fire. This system also includes provisions for the collection and re-cycling of said contents after they have been released. I think you see where this is going...- - As the tunnel began filling up with fuel, the fire suppression system activated itself and began priming the re-circulation/recovery system.
- - Unbeknownst to anyone at the time, the pumps drafted 17,000 gallons of fuel out of the tunnel and pumped it into the fire suppression system.
- - Due to a number of operational and investigative issues (and possibly outright lying), the leak is logged as being only several hundred gallons when in fact it was almost 20,000, with 17,000 of this having 'disappeared' into the fire suppression system.
May 8th:- - Still not realizing the fire suppression system had vacuumed up all this fuel, a contractor is brought in to make sure the fire suppression system was not incidentally damaged or that the pumps had activated during the fuel release. The contractor signs off that the pumps did not activate and that the system gets a passing inspection.
- - At this point in time it is unofficial knowledge that a vastly larger amount of fuel was released than the official log states (they know how much left the tank and how much they swept up), but there is no further investigation into the huge discrepancy.
Nov 20th:All in all, it is believed roughly 5,000 gallons (of the initial 20,000 from May 6th) was lost as a result of this second leak, with a very large majority of that volume making it directly into the water table.
Also to note as for how the tunnel tram could hit the hydrant in the first place - it is believed the normally dry PVC line was sagging under the weight of the fuel. The report also notes that this particular PVC line was supposed to be steel/iron, but the contractor that installed it used PVC because it was less expensive. The powers-that-be determined it would be too costly to re-do the system so it was signed off on as-is.
Throughout this event there has been several high-ranking demotions and of course the public announcement of the full decommissioning of the facility.
Anyway that would be the cliff notes as I interpret the report(s). Hopefully it is at least crudely accurate and helps others understand the situation a little better.
Edit: Spelling...