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How easy or difficult is it for a t

How easy or difficult is it for a t

How easy or difficult is it for a t

(OP)
How easy or difficult is it for a trained and experienced engineer to convince non-mechanical engineers in the manufacturing industry. Non-mechanical engineers could be accountants (they run most companies), lawyers, barristers, human resources managers, et al? A layperson's interpretation of a supposedly mechanical engineering document is not the same interpretation as that of a trained and experienced mechanical engineer - it is the exact opposite.

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

huh?

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

It is nearly impossible to convince them. According to them CF8 castings cannot be repair welded (This is just one example)!!. Producing the standards and industry practice did not convince, and I finally gave up.

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

The difficulty in convincing 'them' is inversely related to the persuasive skill of the engineer in question.

This is a skill worth fostering.

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

Quote:

This is a skill worth fostering

Not just for this example; how will you convince your possibly non-engineer managers in the future that your design, or invention, or whatever, is meritorious and worth funding?

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

(OP)
Hi IRstuff
Leave out the funding - you are not looking for funding: just convincing them about a routine mechanical engineering issue or issues and the non-mechanical engineers' minds are as ignorant as tabula rasa.

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

Convincing often requires that the desired result is one they want. Roughly quoted "You cannot convince someone of something if their continued employment depends on them not believing it."

OTOH - if anyone here has paid attention to the bead-chain fountain explanation exploration, one can see a number of supposedly technical people ignoring obvious physics; no jobs were on the line.

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

Sometimes logic (the province of engineering decisions...usually) doesn't even play into the scenario. You can't win, no matter what.

I needed ~$5K to improve fixturing. Doing this would make prototyping faster, and better quality. Ops Manager called a big meeting "to discuss" the proposal. After 2 minutes it was clear he would not allow funding for this and was using "the team meeting" to kill the proposal. Except the proposal kept looking better and better the more it was discussed. But he wasn't going to do it. At about 5 minutes I powered off my laptop, closed it, gathered my stuff, and calmly told the Ops Manager "if you didn't want to to do this, you could have just told me so." And I got up walked out of the meeting. His head exploded.

Few weeks later, big customer came and Ops Manager put on a big show. He sent a flunky to select a prototype from my area, done with bad fixturing. Part was awful, customer saw it and questioned the Ops Manager about his poor quality and what he was trying to pull.

Head exploded a second time. Bad logic is sometimes very entertaining.

TygerDawg
Blue Technik LLC
Manufacturing Engineering Consulting
www.bluetechnik.com

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

It really isn't.

What's critical in these scenarios is that you put enough forethought in to understand the motivation of whomever you're talking to.

Does your proposal reduce the risk of something that is very scary for them? (ie plant shutdown, product recall, whatever)

Does your proposal provide them something they want? (opportunity for recognition due to better performance of some system; solution to a difficult problem they're catching hell about for not solving, etc)

If you just show people charts and graphs, you'll rarely convince anyone of anything. Again, this is a skill. It takes effort to develop.

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

Look at your proposal objectively. There will be pros and cons.
Make sure that the two people most impacted by those are in the room together.
If you want to spend more up front (capital cost) in order to make a process more efficient then you need the project funder and head of operations together. Otherwise they will both want benifit and pinch you in the middle.
In the power plant world you would get your friendly project engineer to make sure that Head of Maintenance and Head of Generation were both in the meeting. This allows for objective discussion.

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

RE: How easy or difficult is it for a t

quote "How easy or difficult is it for a trained and experienced engineer to convince non-mechanical engineers in the manufacturing industry. Non-mechanical engineers could be accountants (they run most companies), lawyers, barristers, human resources managers, et al? A layperson's interpretation of a supposedly mechanical engineering document is not the same interpretation as that of a trained and experienced mechanical engineer - it is the exact opposite." unquote
convince them of what. how to interpret a drawing. it depends on their experience. and yours.

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