I would suggest verifying the local code for a fence over a ditch.

I have seen a lot of them built as two sections, a fence above the high water level and a grate of some sort on hinges (with stops so that they only swing in flow direction) below.
That way debris can't pile up behind the 'fence' and obstruct flow.

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

I've asked the civil engineer for the county multiple times to provide this code. However they have failed to provide it over and over. Hence seeking outside help.

Ed, do you by chance have any pictures of said example?

I would guess the issue is "ditch" is quite vague.

Also very difficult to argue about peak water level, especially 1/100 yr

storm levels.

18 inches sounds quite low to me.

A few pictures or sections would help.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

Attached is the picture of the current layout.

I'd like to just raise it up enough to meet the 18" requirement while not creating 16 feet of gap that needs to be remedied to keep dogs and or children from climbing out.

The red line is what the county is suggesting, which seems ridiculous. The black lines a proposal to avoid creating that massive gap to be filled. This is directly in the back yard ~25 feet from the house.

Thoughts?

So what happens if you ignore them?

At some point they will need to tell you why it's too low and what regulation you're breaking.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

A culvert pipe?

It does seem a bit silly to put a fence across a ditch though

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

I cannot at this point. The reason the county reached out is because someone complained of water not draining properly. The county came out and sent a letter stating the fence needed to be raised. In addition they said all the gravel that was laid down (because we were trying to rid standing water and mosquitos) has to be completely removed. I agree and understand the fence should be raised and should have been installed higher than what it was.

Fence is up because it's the backyard. The neighbors yard is directly on the other side. Dogs, children etc. need to be contained and privacy is also desired.

But if this is a drain that the county controls don't piss them off, they will tear the fence out and charge you for doing it.
Is there an easement? How wide is it?
Why not two posts about half way between where they would show them and where the center is. Run the solid fence straight across that and put in a wire mesh fence below.

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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed

It is. However I've been told it's our job to maintain it and the only reason the county will come in is if there are issues. The builder placed a property privacy fence on the backside of the easement (far right side of the picture. From where the grass starts to the fence installed by the build is about 10 feet. We would have built our fence where the easement starts but there would be no way to manage the property in between both fences.

I'm just trying to save money at this point. I've been quote $800 to move the fence as per the red line. I've also gained approval from the county to leave the post in the middle. So at this point I'm just trying to meet the needs of the county, while minimizing the gap that would need to be remedied. I hope that makes sense.

You have a drainage ditch 25 feet from the house?

Any sort of a plan here?

I'm not surprised the county want you to move the fence though.

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Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

I guess its really closer to 35 or so. Attached is the picture of the entire yard. The area in question is on the back left.

Flowing left to right?

Is that a culvert on the right?

Why not extend the culvert?

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Correct. Left to Right. I would have loved the culvert to run the entire width. Don't know why it wasn't. I was advised by the county the 10 year storm is suppose to be grass...

We put rock to rid standing water but was said that must be taken out.

MLW01....

Do a Google search for "fencing across a ditch" and look at the images. This particular page is just one of many that will come up and I am highlighting it because is has some good examples of fencing extensions into the flow channel that will maintain perimeter security and permit channel flow to pass through: https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS781U...

Some agencies require a completely obstruction-free channel under the fence and some allow (possibly require?) a grate like the one EdStainless mentioned or even a full trashrack. However, if the agency can't provide you with the actual requirement, how are supposed to comply? Could it be that they have do not have written requirement and are trying to fake it? If so, then you probably aren't required to comply with a non-existent requirement.

However, the fence in your photo is certainly a bad design and something needs to be done, so it may not be worth it to push back. A better approach might be to suggest a solution that deals with both competing interests: channel hydraulics vs. site perimeter security. Since perimeter security is important, I would prefer to raise the bottom of the fence, then install some sort of chain link fencing to the bottom of the channel, or a trashrack, etc.

Fred

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"Is it the only lesson of history that mankind is unteachable?"
--Winston S. Churchill

Fred, thank you for your input. We will be raising the fence up and I will be placing something like This underneath.

blocking the waterway with anything, including the wrought iron fence/grate you show in your link is liable to cause flooding on adjacent properties. this is likely to result in a legal claim/lawsuit against you for cause. any sort of blockage that can clog with debris is probably not acceptable. suggest a second fence to keep the dogs in the yard is a better option.

Thank you CVG. Good to know. Only reason I even am thinking of doing it is because the Civil Engineer Contact at the County suggested it. Perhaps a small white picket fence etc. really is the best way to go.

At this point they are going to squeeze you like a pimple. Put in a new fence on this side of the ditch, cutting off access to the ditch, with a gate to allow mowing, or just cut it off completely from view and get in there once a year to cut down any volunteer trees. I suspect that land is essentially lost until a proper culvert is installed the full width, covering the ditch entirely.

Cut it off along the red line. Obviously water drainage is obstructed as is. No, you generally cannot obstructed the water, even a little bit.

Talk to the person making the complaint. Find a solution. Get them to buy into the idea. Second fence, or just try driving in some reinforcing rods at an appropriate spacing. Whatever the final solution is, make sure it works and that the other party is happy with that solution after it rains.

if you try and maintain the ditch, than you will be responsible for any flooding. fencing it off prevents the county from easily maintaining the ditch. thus, you will have standing water. suggest removing the fence or providing a gate and then demand that the county maintain it to eliminate the standing water. mosquitoes carrying West Nile is nothing to play around with

I still think you are best off installing a culvert, maybe with a manhole at the left hand side so someone can flush it out if required, then cover it over and you gain a few feet of level garden without any flies etc. No one can really complain if there is a culvert there already and you seem to have a good slope down to it.

Think long term here.

Sure it looks like the builder made an error, but you've got more garden.

What happens in your neighbours property to the right where it goes under their fences?

Plastic corrugated PE drainage pipe cost virtually nothing and then all you need to do is cut a hole in the fence big enough for the pipe.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

this is a county owned ditch. the county would need to install the culvert

Counties don't want to own a ditch - they just want people to not obstruct it.

They may have certain requirements for culverts (size, access for cleaning, min slope etc), but the culvert belongs to the land owner. Same as the culvert which the builder built.

People culvert ditches and streams all the time. Especially for one which is only 30 feet long, there shouldn't be an issue here.

And it solves a whole heap of issues.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

the fact that the ditch is in an easement indicates that it is most likely not owned by the landowner. if it is in fact owned by somebody other than the county, than the county has no business stepping in

It's an easement - that means the property owner owns and is responsible for it, but the county (or whoever is enabled by the easement) can typically do whatever they want and control whatever the easement says.

I have a natural gas line in my front yard for which the local gas company can, and has, damaged my yard rather carelessly to access a connection. Just showed up, turned over the sod into little chunks and left so they could do something dealing with the service to a house across the street. Also across the street - same thing for a water valve. Left a giant heap of dirt in their front yard. I joked with the gas guys about concreting over it - they said, no problem. They'd bring in concrete busting equipment and bill me for the labor.

When it comes to drainage, some areas can get vicious. A buddy of mine had a slight depression along the fence line. Measured 6 foot 4 inches to the top of the 6 foot fence. Inspector wanted the fence torn down for being over 6 foot. We all suggested adding a tiny amount of dirt right along the fence line - he said he asked and was told that would change the drainage from the neighbor's property and would have to be removed and he'd be fined. Neighbor had not complaint about the fence height. His out was his high-school buddy the Mayor who told the inspector to go do something useful after approving the fence.

Read the easement...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

I'd be looking at a heavy 6 x 6 grid as a pass through that's readily replaceable when it rusts out, if you want to put a swinging grill in the middle then maybe okay. County may not have authority to regulate, this may be a private/private party issue. The 18 inches likely doesn't have a basis in code, just a local policy. A civil engineer could do a drainage analysis and prove the height that you need, but that's costly. See attached I pulled off the internet from a local agency in Springfield.

• https://files.engineering.com/getfile.aspx?folder=70188553-bc5a-47d8-8bb3-2

The easement holder has rights just as a land owner has rights. I don't see the land owner here is not a victim here. The land owner would have been aware of the easement when the property was purchased (or when the easement was acquired if it was after purchase). Easements often exist where there is no evidence of one (underground utilities for example). This is not the case here. The ditch and head wall are obvious.

The fence should have never been constructed across the easement without checking with the easement holder.

As far as the suggestion that 18" is arbitrary or not based in code - my guess is the ditch and pipe were designed and there are known design flows the height is likely based on calculated flow depth for a design storm.

Regarding wire fencing and mesh - the concern here is for debris to collect on the "screen" and clog it....again causing a drainage issue.