×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
Hi ,
i'm looking Bingham Willamette pump curve, these are cargo loading pumps purchase by Esso international and installed in Libya many years ago. our company data system don't have pump curve and specific documents, can anyone help to find out these documents.
Pump Serial No. 240647/8
HST
Size: 24 X 30 X 30
Discharge head 170 ft
speed 880 rmp.
Thanks for your cooperation.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Have you tried the SULZER MANUAL located here ?

https://read-download-books.com/v6/preview/?pid=6&...

The mid-eastern information thieves have locked up all other copies except, of course the one one that they want to sell to you

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
MJCronin,
Link is not opening, can you from your resources and attach here.
Thanks

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

The link opens for me ....

You cannot read the text because the thieves want you to pay.

But the documents exist under the SULZER brand ...

Here is a different group of thieves

https://docplayer.net/62697418-Sulzer-bingham-pump...

and another ...

http://media44.club/download/books.php?Sulzer+Bing...

ESSO installed the pumps ?...... How old are they ?

You state that these pumps are "HST" series but that seems to be yet another error .... Do you mean "HSB" ?

Is this your pump ?

https://www.sulzer.com/-/media/files/products/pump...

Whatever you do, please make sure that you just drop things when you get the information that you want ..

Never follow through, and never leave enough information for others to benefit





MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
MJCronin,
Can sulzer provide me required information because these pumps were purchased in 1960s.
Thanks

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

MIANCH, why don't YOU ask Sulzer?

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Well if these pumps are 60 years old I don't think they will still be running like they used to when first built.

Can't you just test them in situ?

Sulzer may have the data as you have the serial no, but you might have to wait a while as they are probably archived somewhere.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
Definitely I will ask sulzer, we are upgrading the metering battery and some piping, contractor asked for pump curve for piping stress analysis. Asking in this forum always have very good information and right answer always.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

How will the pump curve assist in pipe stress analysis?
After operating for 60 years you would expect to know the flowrate and head - - - wouldn't you?

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
Artisi, can you elaborate further, if pump data is not useful then how contractor perform stress analysis.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Because stress in pipes is not really caused by fluid flow, only pressure and mainly temperature changes.

I have no idea why a piping stress person wants a pump curve. Have you asked them why as opposed to just going away and trying to find it? Always ask why someone wants information in a nice way. Then you might be able to supply it directly if it's not immediately to hand.

If you have to assume a max pressure at no flow, use 10 or 15% above it's current duty point.

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Probably, the contractor is looking for the allowable forces and moments on the pump flange. The contractor, I guess, assume that they can find it in the same document. Other than that there might be some extension of piping to consider in the layout, who knows?

I would suggest OP to ask contractor what exactly they need for the job, and divert the question on to Sulzer.

Some cases the drawing or maintenance instructions might be hidden in the client’s drawers, and none knows about the location of it other than the maintenance person in the plant

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

This us in Libya. Probably got destroyed in the last few years....

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

I draw the line at looking for drawings in the client's drawers.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
Dear Sirs,
Yes project is in Libya, Ship loading pipeline is 48" and corroded. 1 km long portion need to replaced. contractor is local and have not much qualified and experienced staff. Pump documents are not available. I sent email to Sulzer but no reply received yet. contractor performed stress analysis and our piping engineer will review it.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Why look for allowable loads on pump flanges? Those are always unreasonably low anyway. Just assume something less than 200 lbs for Fx,y,zand 200 ft lbs for Mx,y,z, then try to make the pipe stress loads on it as near zero as possible and get on with it.

If you are not reducing pipe diameter, or changing design pressure or flow rates, ask for the newest model of the same pump and get some new drawings for it. If not, you're kind of stuck with what you have there in front of you. Take pictures and measurements.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

If replacing corroded pipe with new pipe without any changes to size, length, flow or pressure- what is your concern?

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

1503-44 what would depend entirely whose drawers you were looking into and why😉

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
Artisi, you are right but this condition is added in scope of work and my responsibility to comply with scope of work. Thank you for your good advice.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

What a damned mess !! ..... This is an institutional problem, not an engineering one !!

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Write "It does not exist".

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Check Khadiffi's bookcase

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve


It will be hard to find this pump data sheet.. Too old and to be filed in digital... Otherwise it doesn't exist, Sulzer will not have the data available in an easy manner...

I had a job, where the scope set a review design of  distillation columns made in the 60th for a french company that close in the 80th ,, we write a job report to the client that if they haven't the design data, for us were not possible to find it, . They accept it.


Horacio

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

If you know the flow at 170 ft of head and the dead head, you can build a reasonable curve. I suspect your contractor only really needs the dead head value for the stress analysis.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Thats a good idea. You'll still need the rated capacities at BEP to get close to a realistic curve. Does the pump still have any legible name plate ratings?

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)
Friday / Saturday is off, I will check and comeback with more information.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Wild Idea here...

Find a SULZER competitor with a very similar pump, same pump style, same diameter impeller.

Use the competitor's pump curve for an approximation

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

After 60 years in operation, unless the pump has been rebuilt, is it unlikely it will perform to curve anyway.
Surely, after this time the owner must have some idea of the thru' put and head under operating conditions.
And if not why worry, were there any operating problems previously, adding some extra pipe shouldn't change much other than a little less flow and an increase in head.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

(OP)

Name plate is available but can't read it, see attached picture.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Corrected - likely to unlikely in previous post.

It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins to twist facts to suit theories, instead of theories to suit facts. (Sherlock Holmes - A Scandal in Bohemia.)

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Again.....



Whatever you do, please make sure that you just drop things when you get the information that you want ..

Never follow through, and never leave enough information for others to benefit

MJCronin
Sr. Process Engineer

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

Can you sand clean name plates? Is the dark colour rust or kind of paint? You must have some sort of equipment to clean and repaint the name plate. You may still need the information on them.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

After 60 years in the Libyan desert getting sand blasted I think you would need to x ray the damn thing to see anything. Or something like that.

TV shows like CSI make it look easy!

I bet they just use an app on your phone...

Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.

RE: Bingham Willamette Pump curve

The infamous "tool markings".
But whatever you do, don't sandblast it.
Call CSI first.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Resources

Low-Volume Rapid Injection Molding With 3D Printed Molds
Learn methods and guidelines for using stereolithography (SLA) 3D printed molds in the injection molding process to lower costs and lead time. Discover how this hybrid manufacturing process enables on-demand mold fabrication to quickly produce small batches of thermoplastic parts. Download Now
Design for Additive Manufacturing (DfAM)
Examine how the principles of DfAM upend many of the long-standing rules around manufacturability - allowing engineers and designers to place a part’s function at the center of their design considerations. Download Now
Taking Control of Engineering Documents
This ebook covers tips for creating and managing workflows, security best practices and protection of intellectual property, Cloud vs. on-premise software solutions, CAD file management, compliance, and more. Download Now

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close