Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Suez Canal blocked by container ship
(OP)
It might not be an engineering issue that started it, but I bet is going to change a few specifications.
BBC piece here Link
It looks like the bow is hard aground, refloating will be an interesting exercise given the time pressure.
Canal profile is here
https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/About/SuezCan...
BBC piece here Link
It looks like the bow is hard aground, refloating will be an interesting exercise given the time pressure.
Canal profile is here
https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/About/SuezCan...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Screenshot from Vessel Finder March 25 2021 8:53 AM GMT
Similar to the grounding of the USS Missouri in 1950. Hopefully salvage will not take as long as that effort, this is a huge task.
ABC News Trapped container ship blocks navigation in Egypt's Suez Canal
The Guardian Giant ship blocking Suez canal partially refloated
Screenshot from Vessel Finder March 25 2021 9:13 AM GMT
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Especially when its 1300 feet long.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/suez-canal-blocked-...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.bbc.com/news/56523659
ya, but he was a good 12 year old.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
can they unload containers "at sea" ?
another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
don't see why not... the ship's not moving...
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
stern is the rear
port to the left
starboard to the right
draught is depth between the water surface and the bottom of the keel
Congratulations, you now probably know more nautical terms than whatever idiot steered this boat into the side of the canal
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
What is the Stem, other than a typo.
A part of the bow.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The bow frame forming the apex of the intersection of the forward sides of a ship. At its lower end it is rigidly connected to the keel. It and may be a heavy flat bar or of rounded plate construction.
It appears to be infront of the bow... maybe the front of the ship.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Apologies, I misread 'stem' as "stern".
The 'bow' is generally the front part of the hull; the end of the boat aimed at the direction of travel. The 'stem' is the structural member that forms the edge of the bow. On a wood planked hull, the stem is an extension of the keel which extends from the keel to the gunwale, and forms the backbone of the the forward structure of the ship, and is also the member against which the planks terminate.
In this photo the curved part in the front is the stem. On a real boat, there would be a joint between the stem and the keel somewhere near the midpoint of the transition from the vertical stem to the horizontal keel.
A steel ship with a curved bow does not, technically, have a stem, although some people will still use the term 'stem' to refer to the forward most edge of the bow.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
----------------------------------------
The Help for this program was created in Windows Help format, which depends on a feature that isn't included in this version of Windows.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Ever Given, Ever Glory, Ever Golden, Ever Grade, Ever Globe, etc etc etc are all ships in their fleet.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
A.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Some good photographs here. This ship is well embedded into both banks of the canal. I think Tugboat is correct in that this work will amount to a huge amount of digging.
https://www.space.com/stuck-ship-suez-canal-satell...
https://www.npr.org/2021/03/25/981128288/it-might-...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://twitter.com/VesselFinder/status/1374716424...
This New York Post title states it clearly. . . . . . .
https://nypost.com/2021/03/24/cargo-ship-drew-peni...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Nothing was unusual about the maneuvers prior to entering the canal. Ships can't just park so they run their engine for a bit and drift for a bit. It's unfortunate that they created a pattern.
Digging may be reqired but offloading the stern of the ship will be a priority so it can be pivoted to open the canal for one way traffic at a minimum.
Sunday will be the highest tide in a while so if it can't be rotated by then it will be stuck for a long time. I don't have high hopes.
Lloyd Register estimates the daily cost including daily charter rates for delayed ships at $400 million per hour. This is literally bigger than COVID.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The most powerful tugboat out there Far Samson at 400ton power appears to be tied up with some work in the Baltic Sea (and by its location, maybe some where close to the landing on the German side for NordStream II pipeline ??). Another 300ton tugboat Alp Striker appears to be occupied with some work off Aberdeen.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Hardly. IMF estimate of the impact of COVID on Europe was about $6 trillion. At the rate of $400M/hour the ship will need to be stuck for nearly 2 years to be bigger than COVID. And that is only considering the impact on Europe.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It is also not much compared to the force required to move a ship the size of the Ever Given once you consider that it not only embedded itself into the sandy bank, but is likely pushed up, and resting on the sand rather than completely floating.
Coastal Emergency Risks Assessment now does tidal modeling world wide. High Tide in this location looks rather stable here for the next few days. Tidal range is increasing, so at low tide there will be thousands of additional tons resting on the grounded parts of the hull. This places a huge bending load on the hull.
Screen shot is from Suez, the model does not extend into the canal. Caution - this is probably a misuse of the tool, the salvors will be using better tools.
Both ends of the ship grounded, support midships removed (low tide) creates the worst case sag. A similar design case is maximum wave height, with the distance between crests just a bit shorter than hull length.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogging_and_sagging
Fred
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Consider this method:
Drop both the ship's anchors.
Onto barges.
Take the barges across the canal to the other side.
Off load the anchors onto shore.
Take them as far as possible onto shore.
Keep them angled as close to the ship's hull as possible
Excavate BIG holes.
Drop the anchors in the holes.
Fill them both in.
Drive two of the largest available bulldozers between the chains to as close as you can to the middle of the chain runs.
In a coordinated manner push both chains outward.
Taking advantage of the vector results of such a maneuver the forces applied to by the dozers are multiplied by about 100 times. A 100ton push would translate to pull on the Ever Given of 100T x 100 or 10,000T. That would be for each chain.
This gets the pull onto the Ever Given avoiding all the weak bollard limits by instead using the two points on the ship with the highest pull strength.
It pulls from the front.
It's a straightforward concept once the math is understood.
It uses already on-site equipment. (Anchors & chains)
It's frequently used when stuck off road with uncanny success. It has never failed me.
90% of the effort is shore based and not water/floating difficult.
It lends itself very well for unsticking because as the stuck item unsticks the right-angle cable pulling or pushing motion can continue to exert a continuous but rapidly lessening force (due to the vector changing) on the tension member, keeping the extrication in motion and the cable(s) from being run over.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I do not think anyone has mentioned that in addition to the ship being grounded, with it partly being supported by the sand it's ends are embedded into there is a significant flow of water along the length of the canal which is pushing on the side of the ship. Possible several thousands of tons of force against the side of the hull. This force reverses with the tide cycle.
It is not clear if this helps or hurts the salvage effort.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
With a shipping loss of $400 million USD/day, one may wonder if destructive methods are also being considered. One bombing run might take a few minutes.
"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I thought that was one of the reasons it got 'wedged', and that the stern pivoted and wedged the rear into the bank on the opposite side... that's why I was thining of hydrodemolition... to wash away the soil.
I thought that all boats travelling the canal had to have an Egyptian pilot; has this changed?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Fastest option? Sacrifice the center of the container stack and use shaped charges to split the ship in two. Swing the ship open like a gate to allow one way travel, then offload containers to the banks, and then tow away the remains.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Satellite image reveals true extent of the traffic jam caused by mega-ship lodged in the Suez Canal - as shipping firms call on US Navy for help amid fears cargo vessels are sitting ducks for PIRATES
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9405423/S...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Now slow as she goes otherwise you'll have a capsize.
Freeing the front end and then pulling it round is the only way they'll get it free is my opinion.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Thanks... just thought it would be slower.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
But it does look like they finally got the big guns in.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
This is a new ship. It's still on the left side of the bathtub curve. I'd be most confident guessing that it was a mechanical/electrical failure.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Energy Industry Grapples With Fallout From Suez Canal Blockage
Cost of renting oil tankers rises, shippers start to plot alternative routes
https://www.wsj.com/articles/energy-industry-grapp...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
On the other hand, the rising waters from global warming my eventually free the Ever Givener.
Joking aside, the dredge looks like the final solution.
I imagine that the work on the bow first is to lessen the chance of damaging the hull, either from uneven support or from twisting the ship off of the shoal.
Comments Tug?
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The ship also had enough momentum perpendicular to the canal to drive far up the sides of the canal. Remember, the canal bottom is trapezoidal so it had been in contact with the bottom for quite some time.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I looked it up and this ship ks 2-3 years old.
That's older than I thought and should put it in the constant failure portion of the curve.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Alter course to starbord."
"Aye sir. Altering course to starbord"
"Oh shit."
?????
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
What are the design loads for ships like this?
Do you design for the ship being supported by its bow?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Here you see an example of a ship that hogged to death.
Also, any buckling of the bottom plating caused either directly by contact during ground or excess stresses severely weaken the hull. The ship will have to be unloaded to reduce stresses before transportation on oceans.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The design case is hogging or sagging. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hogging_and_sagging
The design case is waves positioned for highest stress in both cases. Tugboat's example the wave height likely was significantly higher then the design case for long enough for fatigue to take control of the hull. Then you have a hull in pieces.
Grounding can easily create stresses not accounted in the design case. There is some risk of wrinkling the hull. Less risk of cracking the ship in half from a single event unless their are already undetected cracks.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.fleetmon.com/maritime-news/2020/32089/...
It's not normal for ships to end up perpendicular. I'd be curious to see what the rudder position is at this moment.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Figure 91 , page 102 of this reference illustrates the wrinkling described by tugboat. Physics today is the same as 1943. We do not get to wave the rules due to inconvenience.
,
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Steering gear failures are not unheard of.
The BBC report said that 2 pilots were on board. My guess is that one was just in transit.
Yes, it will limp out of the canal and then be off loaded, there is repair and survey work to be done before it carries cargo again. Insurance companies are so picky.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
As that perpetually immature, juvenile'ish guy that loves an overdone sex joke.....I find it amazing that multiple pages published such a dumb thought. I'm pretty sure I've seen more phallic drawings out of the preschoolers.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Maybe one was the Egyptian, that I understand is required...
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
What is the purpose of the 'bulb bow'?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Here in San Francisco.Bay we require two pilots on ships this large. One is in the pilothouse and the other is on the bow of the ship.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://wikiwaves.org/Ship_Kelvin_Wake
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Check out how an improperly executed overtaking maneuver can doom the ship being passed. Though at 13 knots it's unlikely.the Given was being overtaken.
https://youtu.be/dq8EQVl7GG0
Also see the correct method, it's quite complicated.
https://youtu.be/3NqN_yNrR8Y
Port Revel is in France and they train pilots from everywhere in the world. Their channel is fascinating and a good way to kill a weekend.
https://youtube.com/c/PortRevel
Also, one of my coworkers.who excelled at ship handling early and is now a pilot suggested this video explaining pivot point and how ships turn. This is important to understand how the Given ended up perpendicular.
https://youtu.be/RuhETd0hTyU
I have to do some thinking on this, I'm not a ship handling expert, but.i believe the hydrodynamic forces created by a ship running close to a bank would tend to push the bow away and draw the stern in which is the opposite of what we see.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The pro mariners are still specultating about a loss of electrical power.
Positive news, the stern has been floated free. However, it seems the bow has been holed. More speculation is that cargo will need to be removed. Removing ballast to float the ship makes it dangerously unstable.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
But if the ship is billed that's a big blow for them. Haven't seen an update on the dredging work recently.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Apparently it was sand storm Low Viz.and they got hit by 50 knt gusts from a base of 15-20
The two ships behind them nearly collided and only weren't grounded due to being alot smaller.
They are going to try a collosal suction dredger to dig out round the front and back and then block flow in the middle so the current eats the banks.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Link to information:
https://www.vesselfinder.com/news/20478-UPDATE-5-o...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Length is 1.32 x Eiffel Tower
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Good Luck,
Latexman
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://youtu.be/tGXTrcQ5wm8
The dynamics of a big boat close in to the sides apparently is quiet involved.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
One day while overlooking the Golden Gate, I saw a large tanker pass under into the Bay. It was being closely followed dead center by a large tug that appeared to be doing not much of anything. I speculate it was there to take immediate action if things got out of hand?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLFmojnXtk0
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Live Updates: Scramble Against Time to Free Ship Stuck in Suez Canal
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/03/27/world/suez...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Sure. An easy one will be size verses wind gusts. Bigger ones will probably be required to wait for favorable weather conditions now.
I can't understand why ANY more ships would be piling up waiting. They already must be knowing it will take a month to get thru this mess then waiting to unload in the big rush at the other end. Pay the 7 or 8 day penalty of going around instead and still deliver faster. Odd.
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It seems they have taken a coffee brake now...
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I wonder how much heel angle it was subjected to when the gusts hit it.
If it can't keep its heading with a 50 knt cross wind, how does it go in a typhoon?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
But I do not know where this direction value comes from
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Do not know what is worse.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The Class A AIS transponder reports position based on GNSS positions, Headings can be calculated from GNSS signals, or imported from external heading sensors.
USCG Info AUTOMATIC IDENTIFICATION SYSTEM OVERVIEW
These are the US regulations.
AIS REQUIREMENTS
The use of AIS transponders internationally was initially mandated by 2002 IMO SOLAS Agreement, the US regulations are similar to other nations implementations.
Fred
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Like this.
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Just that the first yaw took it into the side.
There was other stuff about single engine and dual rudders and rudder authority with the power off.
The recovery if you get caught is apparently full power and full rudder oppersite direction or something like that. But it takes a lot of skill of the helmsman and quick reactions of the skipper to spot what's developing and the self confidence to order full ahead.
I am pretty clueless about big boats but it's been interesting reading the discussions on the handling of them. You can see why it takes years of training to qualify on them.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
You can imagine there isn't a large pool of candidates...
"Hey Johnny, wanna come over and play Microsoft Ship Simulator?"
"Naw, I have to eat dinner in a couple of hours and I'd only get one docking maneuver in if you let me go first."
Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Turning Circle Diameter Trials for a Container ship
The example in the link is about 1/2 the size of the Ever Given, so the "advance" on rudder angle command is likely twice that shown. That would put advance ~~ 1NM (1852m).
The track plot Alister posted SUEZ CANAL Container ship Ever Given blocked Suez Canal Mar 24, 2021 Clearly shows the bank effect. At 1:51 the ship gets unstuck from the right side bank effect. Steering toward the right bank might have helped early, but as the ship started to approach the left bank the ship would need to steer toward the left bank to prevent the following swing across the canal.
Here is a larger scale of the track plot on the local chart Ship track MV EVER GIVEN grounded Blocked Suez Canal, and a model simulation.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I would consider toppling a couple of hundred tonnes of containers off the ship.
A tug boat hitting the end of a slack line will easily topple several containers at a time.
Use a lifting helicopter to return the pulling line for another pull.
The saving in time will more than make up for any damage to the container contents.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And even 30 years ago they had a pretty impressive bridge simulator including fire and smoke.
I believe the current one moves as well.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
They can swing it now but there is huge lump of rock which the bow is catching on.
And there is a collosal argument on going about what to do next.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
If anyone is willing to take on the job
I am not shore what kind of stones they have in that region , everything seems to be sand not shore how hard sandstones are.
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://youtu.be/mFXEU85AyaI
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I am not shore if it would work under water though
You could dig the rock down! by sucking away the sand underneath
Depending om how large it is..
Both risky business.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The map with the depth curves, where did you get it?
Would like to see what the canal depth looks like before the accident happened.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
PDFs
https://www.american-club.com/files/files/Suez_Can...
Canal website
https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/About/SuezCan...
Dredges! Tugs, Cranes
https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/Resources/Pag...
News
https://www.suezcanal.gov.eg/English/MediaCenter/N...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Those trapezoidal cross sections show a different picture than Tug's plan view above, but they are taken in the part of the canal to the north where there are two separate channels, so not applicable.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I can see unloading, and cutting the ship in two to make a 'gate' to allow traffic to flow as being a viable option... They can clean up the contained mess, later.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I guess they are some electronic navigation beacons ?
They cant be seen on the satellite map so I guess they are on the bottom, maybe movable too?
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Ezzat Adel (Righteous Power <of Allah>)
are the largest in Mideast 16,000Hp, 160T pull (each)
Mosaed (Good Man) 5400 Hp, 70T
I think the Misars are channel marker bouys
the other 2tugs
https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2021-03...
Those are lighted buoys, shown on the pdf file
Red=Left port side of channel
Green= right starboard
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Open the pdf file!
247m between the buoys at km 154
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Pulling / skidding containers sideways requires first lifting the containers to unlatch the container dogs that tie containers in a vertical stack together.
Cargo Container Securing - Container Lashing Container Barge - Container Ship - Railroad IBC Container Twistlocks, Container Turnbuckles, Container Lashing Bars
It might be easier to pull an entire container stack over, but at 40 tons per container, you quickly start to create undesirable unbalanced loading on the ship.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BOLLAND PULL 285 mt cont.
https://www.alpmaritime.com/fleet/alp-guard
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I am still not shore how the heading or bearing is calculated though or how the sensor measuring it works.
The simulation probable uses the same data but a bit more but I am not shore how correct the map is adjusted against the data.
In the simulation it looks like the ship is much closer to the banks at all times.
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
GPS receivers can calculate direction of motion if the ship is moving.
Most gps receivers include a heading sensor, often a magnetic compass (as is used in most cellphones).
AIS systems use gps position, and can use external heading sensors, so they can get heading data from a gyrocompass or the ships navigation platform.
This link explains AIS with some more detail.
Automatic Identification System (AIS): Integrating and Identifying Marine Communication Channels
The US GPS system (Navstar) uses WGS84 ad the datum, as does Europe’s Galileo. I think the Russian and Chinese systems use a different datum. Basic accuracy with real time post processing using WAAS
A system similar to WAAS should be viable in the middle east.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
18kW = 24,000 Hp
Getting bigger.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Thanks 1503... you answered my question... with the Middle East, would there be continuous satellite viewing?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Experience has proven that you can cut a containerships in half and the stern will remain upright and stable.
Shaped charges have been used successfully to split ships in the past.
Red, I am not a navigator so I can't get specific. Any navigation beacon should not be movable. They would also not be on the bottom as that would make them invisible and difficult to transmit radio frequency from. The beacon may be something as small as a VHF antenna for radio direction finding so it wouldn't be visible from satellite. They could also be GPS antennas for differential GPS.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-suez-canal-...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Not movable I am not shore about that it's a canal in the middle of an desert with sandstorm they can fill up with sand and if there isn't time to dredge it out they might need to move or adjust the buoys from time to time
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://mobil.mopo.de/hamburg/frachter-rammt-faehr...
"According to initial reports, the steering gear should have failed. But that was later withdrawn. A machine failure can also be used as an explanation. However, there are many indications of unforeseen weather conditions."
Same story, different day. Perhaps the class does have a disfuncrional steering gear. Admitting a faulty gear would require shutting down the entire class until the condition can be repaired.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-5655990...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Reports are coming that they have managed to unstick the stern and pull it round into deeper water.
The Danish brother hasn't sent an update today.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://mobile.twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1376...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The Danish brother did say if it wasn't for the Denver it could have been alot worse.
The pilot/ Egyptian transit crew that was on board evergreen had a not very good reputation.
The radio chat I suspect would be interesting to hear. Don't have a clue what lingo it's done in or if the Rose knew something was developing ahead.
The front end is still stuck just the back end has been pulled away from the bank. They are checking the prop and rudders and if they are ok can use them next high tide to try and get the front off.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The brother hasn't mentioned any flooding. And haven't seen anything to indicate huge volumes of water being pumped out.
Do modern container ships have double hulls or is that only tanker's?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Is it free?
I'll wait for pictures.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Any luck once the rudder and props are checked out they can drag it backwards.
I don't think the actually care if they do hole it while extracting it or damage anything else. As long as they can get it out the canal out the way.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Current time is 09:04
They are going to give it another shot then apparently.
Currently ballasting to the rear to try and lift the nose up.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Maybe they got it swinging then angled it for the path it went in at or least suction.
Or give enough water behind for the prop to bite.
I reckon you right though and it's sitting on top of a big rock. Wouldn't have thought there are any nearby dry docks to fix it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UNbvO5U700
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Suez is showing Northerly at 17 knts.
Which even for a Scotsman is a reasonabl breeze.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And now underway doing 4 knts.
Be interesting to see the state of it's bow.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://twitter.com/rafsanchez/status/137652045742...
Brad Waybright
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Wonder if they'll ever let it back in again....
The canal navigation document is interesting in that in that section the dredged width to 22.5m is only 137m wide. It gets much bigger elsewhere, but give this thing is 60m wide, it shows you how little room there is to manoeuvre. Also it gives the convoy speed at 16km/hr - about 8.5 knots so if was doing 13kts at the time of the grounding it was going much faster than it should have been.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Alistair, modern ships are all double bottomed but only tankers are double hulled.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_hull
Thanks for info couldn't work out what it had.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
There was a report that the following ship realized that the Ever Given was in trouble and was slowing even before the 'Given hit the bank.
Apparently the second ship following was not as quick to react and collided with the following ship.
Ships don't pass in the canal, and the 'Given was not overtaking ships.
The speed was most likely the normal traffic speed on that day.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It can't be that badly damaged as its on its own and still routed the Rotterdam which is where the dry dock is.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I guess they are doing an first inspection there.
And also letting the waiting ships pass before letting the Ever Given continuing to the Mediterranean.
Especially if there still is strong winds.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
They will have all been given a slot time and they will be taken in that order.
Although I am pretty sure they will be a market for bribes and buying slots
Animals suffering or food going off will not enter into the equation it will just be a insurance claim.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Most of the livestock ships are going to Jordan and Egypt and Saudi.
Money? no money? who knows
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Most of us could retire on what he has just earned.
Brute force and screw it the hull is already written off and if we can shift it inside 7 days we make an utter fortune won out.
They have done some major damage to the tugs and pull points on the boat. But the hull is sound which has surprised everyone they expect it to self power to Rotterdam then it might not even need dry dock.
They are all off to Cyprus to get very drunk the brother that I work with has been told to work out real estate investments in the Baltics.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The EG is at anchor in the bittern lakes.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Quiet looking forward to the next time he is in the Kiwi bar to hear what actually went on.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The USA is trying to prevent it. Global politics
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Alistair, there are no shear safety pins on towing gear and tugs are typically rates to operate at 100% capacity. Towing gear on ocean going vessels usually has a safety factor of 3. Damage to the ship is quite possible, though.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I have seen pictures of wraps of rebars through holes in hook couples I might not be using the right terminology. But there is a pin through the hook couple that will fail before the thing rips out the deck, That calibrated pin is gone on the release. It was a bundle of rebar.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
EVER GIVEN Suez Canal Traffic Recovery 24h Live Tracking Stream by FleetMon
Giant Suez Canal ship freed | DW News
The time constrained drama is mostly over.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Just steady pulling wouldn't generate enough force.
Any thoughts Tug?
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I know nothing about these systems, but for a relatively modern ship design of that size it would come as a surprise to me if any old tug could just hook up and start ripping parts of the ship off.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Modern ships are built to be cheap. Class society rules make it difficult to operate ships that are over 30 years of age so they have to be disposable.
The only strong attachment points on are modern ships are the anchor windlasses. All other bits are intended for mooring and are sized accordingly. The maximum rating is usually 100 ton (coincidentally we operate the most powerful ship assist tug on the USA west coast at 96 tons on a straight pull). Only tankers over a certain size will get a "super bit" on their stern. These require a 10ft eye so we keep a special strap for when we need to attach to super bits.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The rock would have been stuck in the hole that it made and it would not be a matter of simple friction.
Either the rock would have to be moved, and if it was large enough to seriously compromise a ship of that size, it would not move easily.
The other option would be for the rock to rip through plating and do more damage.
Either way a lot more force would be needed to free the ship than if it were just buried in the mud and sand.
There were some reports of flooding in some forward compartments, that would be consistent with the rock puncturing the hull.
Tug, inertia or sticktion?
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
As I sade before I am not shore what kinds of rocks they have in that region but if it was something like a sand or limestone.
It would not be the same as hitting a granit boulder or even worse a lava one.
I would think that the keel would have made a groove in the rock and they could not back the ship out since the stern was against the canal wall, they hade to twist the ship and the boulder getting it of, or sucking the sand under the boulder away lowering it.
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The only reason I can imagine is that it might tend to lower the price of LNG and maybe a number of other things in Europe, thereby making US goods less competitive there. But that might make US goods more competitive in South and East Asia. Since that balances more or less, its LNG, and, or military concerns. ???
Are you a potential captain?
Run the canal game
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The ALP GUARD has
BOLLAND PULL 285 mt cont.
I guess cont. is continues
But was is mt ?
milli Ton
or milion Ton ????
What does it mean??
https://www.alpmaritime.com/fleet/alp-guard
Best Regards
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Oh remember now it was to do with oil and having two way through it would increase the flow to Europe of LPG from none US sources.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I believe MT= metric tonne.
Brad Waybright
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Hence my question about your hammer and several tons of stiction.
In the case of the 'Given, most likely the ship rode up on the rock (Sticktion) and then the weight supported by the rock became more than the bottom could support and the the bottom plates failed.
Then the rock was inserted into the hull and formed a key, or dog.
Neither sticktion nor inertia but a mechanical interlocking.
By the way, swinging the stern would have broken the stiction.
This technique has been known by horse loggers for a couple of hundred years.
When the horse could not start a log moving, the logger would take a side pull to break stiction.
Once the log started to move sideways the horse could usually keep it moving.
But this is speculation.
There may be more information to come, and the ship may have been pivoting on the rock with no interlocking.
Is it reasonable that the rock could be supporting so much weight that it was that difficult to pull off and yet do no damage to the hull?
I don't know.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
How a Supermoon Helped Free the Giant Container Ship From the Suez Canal
Stronger tidal effect made it easier to partially float the Ever Given but also gave engineers a hard deadline
https://www.wsj.com/articles/how-a-supermoon-helpe...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The old horse loggers knew that it was easier to start the end of the log moving sideways to break the static friction and so start the log moving.
That they were able to move the stern 80 degrees but were not able to pull the ship backwards *strongly suggests that the rock or bedrock was acting as a key.
*"strongly suggests", not 100 percent but a high percentage of probability.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I don't think so.
I think until you dig into it, we (me included) just aren't used to thinking on the scale of the forces involved in moving a ship of this magnitude.
Look at it this way.... the Ever Given weighs 200,000 tons. Two hundred thousand tons. 400,000,000 pounds.
If even 10% of the tonnage of the ship (and I bet it was more than that) is bearing on wet saturated sand, the friction force alone to pull the ship out is 15,000 tons and change.
That means that if you were to just yank it out with tugs straight back, you'd need the full capacity of 38 of the most powerful tugs in the world. (Google says the most powerful tug is ~400 tons) And that doesn't even include any force due to suction, which I don't know how to calculate but I'd imagine is huge on the large area which was contacting the sand. Or the significant inertia of a 200,000 ton load which you have to overcome to get the thing moving.
The forces are gargantuan, no pointy rock required.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I have a military mind. Sadly the moment I saw that gigantic container ship stuck sideways, all I could think-of was the likely on-set of a catastrophic sabotage plot.
I could visualize a single jet dropping 2-#2000 bombs mid-ship... or heavy cruise-missiles or anti-ship missiles... screaming-in and blasting the ship in-half or thirds. Based on current experience, cleaning-out the debris [containers] and cutting-up the ship would take at least 4-years. Something like this might even require re-routing [digging] the canal AROUND the blockage and closing that section off indefinitely.
This should be a wake-up call for every major and minor country that relies on canals or waterways or bays [with necked entry water-ways] for an economic lifeline... and have giant container/cargo ships passing each other.
Mapping the World’s Key Maritime Choke Points https://www.visualcapitalist.com/mapping-the-world...
In my minds eye, I saw these oceanic choke-points but also saw many other water-way choke-points, thus...
Suez canal.
Panama canal.
Gibraltar.
Gulf of Aqaba.
Strait of Hormuz.
Entrance to the Red Sea.
St Lawrence River [into the Great-Lakes].
Mississippi River.
Missouri River.
Ohio River.
Hudson River.
Delaware River
Columbia River.
Sacramento River.
San Francisco Bay.
Arkansas River.
Rhine River.
Volga River.
Mekong River.
Ganges River.
Yangtze River.
Nile River.
To name a few of the biggies...
Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I mean... once you’re adding #2000 bombs and cruise missiles into the equation... does it really matter if the ship is stuck at that point? Just sayin’.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Then we had folks on this very site advocating for blowing the ship in place, or dumping the cargo in the canal.
Ludicrous, and some of these folks are the same ones who insist on 'following the science' in other respects.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Malaca Strait!
Danish Strait!
English Channel!
Houston Ship Channel!
Dardenalles Strait (Bosporus)!
Sunda Strait! (Java)
Amazon River
Rio de la Plata (Buenos Aries)
Strait of Meagellan & Punta Arenas Channel
Yellow River
Los Angeles Harbor?
San Francisco?
San Jaun de Fuca?
Actually there are some high cliffs to the west of Suez. Finding a rock isn't totally impossible.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I did see some people with practical experience on this matter suggesting that the reporting of the incident wasn’t honest and that the situation was much more dire than it turned out to be. Yeah, they had suggested off-loading the ship and/or cutting it in half. But not a whole lot of talk otherwise of “blowing” the ship in place or wholesale “dumping” of the cargo in the canal.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The ship's black box is reportedly on the way to be analyzed by US NTSB.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Why use explosives that requires a degree of air superiority and is relatively overt, a software hack might not be. A software hack did cross my mind when it a first appeared to be an uncommanded turn. At a guess if all the systems are centrally computer control one could have made it rollover and ground at the same time (one big bit could be harder to remove than lots of little bits). Just think of all those vessels built in the PRC.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The tug with the RE bar instead of a shear pin is a hook puller not a bollard pull. Its so they don't need anyone to catch the hawsers they just lower the hawser down into the hook jaw mouth and then it gets hydraulically closed then when they want to drop it they open the jaw and its released. The salvage guys like them apparently because if things get exciting they can hit the release and get out the way quickly
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And to get it loos it was more like, trying to unscrew a loctited screw with an oversized screwdriver until the groove in the screw was broken?
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Seems Russia smelled a marketing opportunity and is promoting the Northern Sea Route as THE alternative to the Suez. It's not hard to envision the geopolitical implications of a major shipping route controlled by Russia, let alone the impact to the environment. It seems to me that Russia is the big winner out of all this - besides The Dane of course
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/russia-suez-t...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Seems they have just ordered another 20 of these ships.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
These vessels are essentially flat bottomed so it would appear that the vessel rode over one of the humps and didn't stop until the nose ran into the bank.
Then with the nose now out of the water by a number of metres you have a large area of softish sand / clay / soft rock underneath the vessel some distance from the bow stopping it moving due the huge weight of the vessel and its cargo.
So excavating some of the material helped, but in the main the rear shift sideways pivoting the vessel on this harder lump was the key, a bit of rear ballast apparently once the rear got free, but not enough to snap it, and then a high tide and some associated higher currents and some almighty ocean going tugs and off it slid.
Will be interesting to see if the bow thrusters were operational.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It looks like this but about 5 times bigger.
And a promo video of the concept.
https://youtu.be/P7Rgm-XjOf0
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Not much different than the ones already in existance... politics ofter softens when there's a buck to be made.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I'm also halfway through the book "2034:A Novel of the Next World War", so my worldview is a bit paranoid at the moment!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=geopolitical+pipelines&a...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Believe me, it's been on the agenda for a very long time. A lot of time, effort, money, political will and cooperative military effort goes into ensuring freedom of passage through, for instance, Hormuz and the Bab al Mendeb.
A.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
There is definitely something in the area working.
Use the AIS tracking and search for Fortuna russian registered.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And they were gearing up for completion October last year.
Germany's energy plan hinges on it being complete. Short of starting ww3 blowing it up I can't see it being stopped.
The end game started 12 months ago.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It's all politics... The alcohol impared Russian leader, stupidly, let the Ukraine have Crimea... a key strategic 'spot' and the residents of Crimea did not want to be part of the corrupt Ukraine, and decided 'on their own' that they wanted to be free. Depends on how you 'spin it'. As far as sanctions go... it was the sanctions that the US placed on Japan, a while back, that...
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
All routs have there problems, you might need a combined tugs and icebreakers.
I think, I would rather bee stuck in the Suez canal then in the Arctic Ocean.
I am not even shore it is closer for anyone.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Yes, you are right. The Fortuna is working. I didnt know that. I also thought that no harbors were openly cooperating, so they must be going very slowly if they are getting their pipe and consumables barged to them from a Russian port. Last I heard was that Germany was complaining, but complying with US demands.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The earth ain't flat... the potential impact of a shipping lane opening year round through the arctic is huge.
One of these routes is WAY shorter than the other... hint, it's the green one.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I guess for the rest it's still longer.
Not much traffic from Vladivostok by the way.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.maritime-executive.com/article/venta-m...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
...and in going to the states, the Canadian northwest passage offers a much shorter route, too...
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
NEW YORK Suez Canal Resumed Operations : What Will Happen to Ever Given? | Chief MAKOi
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam is exactly 16,500 km to Rotterdam, by either route.
From Australia, neither route has any appreciable advantage in distance over the other..
Strangely enough, for Asia to Rotterdam OR NYC, the Northwest Passage is also nearly equal to the Bering Strait- Iceland route.
Sydney to NYC is only about 1000km less going through Panama then using the NW Passage.
Sao Paulo to Suez is the same distance through the Med or passing down around Good Hope.
NYC is the same distance to the entire east coastlines of the North Atlantic Ocean, from Boda, Norway to Senegal.
And for what its worth, NYC to Panama is the same distance as NYC to Houston.
Hokie, edited to address your comment. Thanks.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Well, after all, during her years as the First Lady, the Secret Service code name for Hillary was 'Evergreen'. It was written on the side of the ship in big bold letters. And what more does a group of QAnon nutcases need to convince themselves that they're on to something? However, since the crisis is now over, and they didn't need to destroy the ship, and whatever secret cargo it might have been carrying, and nothing happened elsewhere in the world as a result of this six-day drama, it must have been a false alarm. But for many of the true believers, they really thought they had nailed it this time.
Note that this is not an April Fools joke, there actually was a lot of conspiracy theory buzz out there on the fringes, including the above QAnon near-orgasm, as to what this was really all about. Even here in this threa, there was speculation about potential military players, state-supported or otherwise, involved in this incident. And if not this time, talk about this giving those parties ideas for next time.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
'USA Today' even ran a fact check on it, as it was getting so much buzz:
Fact check: No evidence of Hillary Clinton link with ship stuck in Suez Canal, trafficking
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
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The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
A nuke reactor on a boat solves the power issues up there and they have already cracked that one.
So again it comes down to energy.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Besides, with this crisis now over, a little humor about why some people were following it as closely as many here were obviously following it, I thought would be enjoyed, if for no other reason than that it demonstrates that everything that happens now days is fuel for someone's beliefs, factual-based or otherwise.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
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The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
What !!
Best regards NotaQanna
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
We have a similar situation in Scotland with the SNP and Scottish independence and humour.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Yes. Happy April Fools Day!!!
John, I did not read your post as furthering Q conspiracies. In fact, I took it as you obviously meant it, to discredit such nonsense. I can't see how anyone else could have read it differently. I didn't know that Q had made a case about it, but that isn't surprising given the amount of meds it must take to fuel their collective imagination.
LNG potential. 13,500 Km from Virginia to Japan is roughly equal to Qatar to Japan, but Qatar gas is probably better priced. Norway and Algerian LNG may gain some advantages with a polar route to Japan, but would likely be undercut by Australian gas. There are some large gas export plants in development in East Africa, so future competition will be tough for anyone west of Qatar/Suez. The best foreign market for US LNG is in fact only the northern EU region, anything above the Tower of Hercules. hence the sanctions on Nordstream II.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The most common form, Deuteranomaly (a type of Red-Green color blindness) effects approximately 6% of males but less than 0.4% of females. My father had a severe case of Red-Green color blindness. He always joked that that was why he was such a good shot. Because, when deer hunting, he had to make the first shot the kill shot because he wouldn't have have been able to follow a blood trail, unless of course it had been snowing, then who cared what color the blood looked like. Of course, if it were snowing, I'd follow the tracks
Note that my interest in the issues of color blindness was not really because my father's situation, but rather it came about when I was the project manager for a major update in our software user interface and we needed to make sure that it was usable by people who were color blind, so I did a bunch of research on the topic. This included finding a set of color charts that compared what a color blind person would see versus someone who was not color blind. So we had to make sure that when we used colors to indicate something in a menu or say highlight a choice, that we avoided using colors that a color blind person would find hard to distinguish. Obviously you would avoid changing something from Red to Green, or vice versa, to indicate a state change or an option being set. And it could also be an issue when people used a lot of colors for components in their CAD models and while we did offer photo realistic rendering, that usually required a lot of computer power (or at least it did for a long time before the 'Gamers' got the hardware people to produce miracles in silicon), so most people stuck to a form of the RGB color palette. In our case, we used one based a cube made up of six layers, each layer consisting of six x six colors, for a total of 216 colors. Black and White occupying opposing corners, and the remaining six corners being assigned the primary and secondary RGB colors of Red, Green, Blue, Yellow, Cyan and Magenta, with all the variations in between. In fact, I even wrote a program that our customers could run on their models so as to temporarily show them what that model would look like to a color blind person, in case that was something they needed to concern themselves with.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Admitally mostly to do with nuclear waste dumping and isotopes washing up in Scotland but later on there was definitely something to do with oil, gas and coal.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The reason they think men are more often colorblind then women is because colorblindness gave men an advantage when hunting.
Being colorblind gathering fruits and food items is not an advantage.
Colorblind have the same eyesight as prey animals, they detect movement much better, they do not get confused by the camouflage colors the animals have, so colorblind people can spot animals long before people who can see color.
The same goes for left-handedness it was also an advantage when hunting in a group especially with spear more common with men.
True
Also true, so John, Aprils fool.
Actually I didn't think it existed.
Best Regards A
PS. I also have made a lot of HMI pictures, but I have a guy at work who is really colorblind, so I use him as a "guinea pig".
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
One thing for certain is that no Arctic ice is a boom for Russia. It has kept them bascially landlocked since the dawn of history. Any opening up there and ..well ... they'd be a totally unleashed kid in a candy store. I can easily imagine that Russia has been pumping out as much CO2, hexaflourines and flaring as much methane as possible to try to get a global warming bonfire burning as fast as they can.
Even the original map is hard to read so here is the link
https://cdn1.bigcommerce.com/server4200/h98e3jtz/p...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
120 km left until its complete.
Reckon Merkel will get it complete then go.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
But basically its stuck in that lake until a load of money has changed hands.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Merkel is doing some dancing, mostly to US sanction threats. The puppetmaster supreme pulling all the strings is former German Chancellor 1998-2005, Hr Gerhard Schröder. Schröder is currently the chairman of the board of Nordstream AG and of Rosneft, How's that for geopolitical pipelines? In fact that's much bigger than any coup that GW Bush and Dick Cheney ever dreamed of pulling off. Germany is walking an extremely tight wire on this one.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And they have finished the German end in the last 2 months.
https://www.insurancejournal.com/news/internationa...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://gcaptain.com/egypt-compensation-suez-block...
After hearing about the captain of the Denver having to override the Canal Authority pilot while the ship ahead and behind both crashed really does make one question the competence of the pilots. Pending investigation it seems Egypt should be paying the rest of the world. I doubt that is going to happen, the investigation is being performed internally by Egypt.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Basically the ship owner now wants all the owners of the cargo to fund part of the cost of "saving" the vessel and its cargo. And if they are not insured or can't pay the container and its contents is seized.
With 20,000 containers (or is it 10,000 normal containers and 20,000 TEUs?) that's a major headache for everyone.
Did the salvage go Lloyds open contract?
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I'm not sure if it was earlier in this thread, but the Suez pilots, like nearly all other pilots, do not take control of the vessel. The captain retains responsibility and actually gives the orders to the helm and engine. Of course if the captain ignores the "advice" of the pilots and then runs aground or hits something then he is clearly at fault, but even if he does everything he is asked then its still his fault.
The only pilots who take responsibility apparently are the Panama canal pilots.
I think they will end up with a limit on ship size if the weather is predicting high winds or high gusts.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
You'd think that any reasonable court would take that into consideration wrt damages...
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Its well worth while going through the other articles on that site. loads of stuff that doesn't hit mainstream media
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/s...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Over half an hour at over 5 MPH above the speed limit?
She didn't overtake any ships?
Some following ships collided trying to stop"
She should have been a couple of miles ahead of following ships.
I suspect that "Speed limit be dammed" she was moving at the speed of the normal traffic.
How for can you speed on a busy one lane road with no passing?
Unless the throttle got stuck.
That may have happened.
Were any of the builders linked in any way to Toyota?
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Does Egypt charge for the use of their pilots? Is it just a money grab?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It may be metric confusion.
Traveling 15 kph when the limit is 10 mph.
Could it happen?
Well, metric confusion brought down the Gimli Glider .
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Which is based on the distance of 1 second of arc on the earth's surface at the equator.
It's neither metric or imperial.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
A.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Even greater confusion.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
15 knots is 17.25 mph
10 knots is 11.5 mph
Limits
http://www.eisgroup.info/wp-content/uploads/2017/0...
16 kph ordinary vessels = 9.9 mph
14 kph tankers = 8.7 mph
Of the above, only the 15 kph is less than the limits.
So,
33% chance she was legal
67% chance she was speeding
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
1 arc minute not 1 arc second.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
As 1503-44 noted above, the speed limit is 16 kph ordinary vessels or 9.9 mph. And 13.5 knots is 15.5 mph. Both of which are what the Post reported.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Been getting on for 20 years since I did nav general. Its a good unit to use for navigation allows loads of in your head calculations to be done on the fly. Although i must admit on modern aircraft we don't do it very often these days apart from distance V height for a 3 deg glide.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
She was a sporty girl seen here on her way to scrap. The ship has s destroyer stern where the prop had a strut bearing which was unusual for a commercial ship. Cruise speed was 24 knots at 790 feet. I'll never forget th color red on the chief engineer's face when the chief mate managed to dial in 20 degrees of rudder at 24 knots during a loss of steering drill.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
She looked like this.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
See the big deck on one of the most legendary towing vessels ever built, the Crowley Invader class. It's a Spaulding design and the Sea Robin and such were part but had less horsepower. The Invaders had 20 cylinder EMD engines. I operate a Spaulding boat built as the Phillip W and is currently called Patriot. That thing is a work of art compared to everything else I have come across. Spaulding was famous for using triple rudders and I know why but most of the industry doesn't. 3 rudders lets you move two outboard so they act as nozzles and give better bollard pull numbers while still maintaining nearly the maneuverability of a 2 rudder setup.
Then, Crowley partnered with a naval architect firm to design these lumps. I might operate one so I'm going to have to delete this post if it gains traction.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I grew up in Aberdeen and went for regular walks on Torry Battery. Always loved watching the marine traffic in and out of Aberdeen harbour.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I see you have used ship assist.
There seems to be a few other classifications out there.
Bollard
Harbour tug
Docking assist
Ocean
Smit and Alp seem to be the big boys in Europe and ME.
https://www.alpmaritime.com/fleet/alp-striker
Seen that one and its utterly colossal.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
September 2018 (Sony a6000)
This one we saw that may have been escorting us into Hilo, on the Big Island:
September 2018 (Sony a6000)
Here's that same tug, the next morning at it's morring:
September 2018 (Sony a6000)
And I watched this one as we left Hilo:
September 2018 (Sony a6000)
And we saw this one in the harbor on Kauai:
September 2018 (Sony a6000)
And as we were waiting to disembark when we got back to Oahu, we saw this rather small tug towing a tourist submarine out of the harbor on one of their underwater excursions. I guess the sub, which actually did do a real submerge and was self-powered (we considered taking one on these rides but we got to the islands just as a hurricane had passed and they had suspended their scheduled trips and they didn't restart them until after our cruise ship had left and we only had one day in Honolulu after the cruise, so maybe next time) but I guess they only have enough power (they were electric) to handle the actual dive and underwater exploration, but didn't have enough power to go back and forth, from and to the port:
September 2018 (Sony a6000)
We watched several of these come and go as we waited for our assigned disembarking time.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-Product 'Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The big ones in europe with a winch have a BOP style hydraulic shear setup to cut the hawser remotely and the smaller ones that hook setup. That old clyde tug must be 1950's built and it has a quick release hook although that one was manual with a rope that to that passage way behind it.
Tugboateng please don't take this as a pissing match comment. Genuinely interested about the different philosophy's. I am happy that things are done differently either side of the pond, now more interested in why.
Love it!!! sounds like me talking about BAe Jetstream 31's, only people that argue with me is Metro pilots and technicians.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Once took a Captain of one of the channel island cat speed ferries on the jumpseat to get him out the the islands due some illness. When I was leaving CI at end of contract taking my car back to the mainland I ask one of the stewards on the pax decks if he was the boss that day. Turns out he wasn't but the skipper knew about the trip and I was on the bridge for the whole trip and loved it... Especially the banter with the duty engineer on the bridge.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Here is some explanations between different tugs.
https://www.wartsila.com/encyclopedia/term/tugs
And here is the Swedish icebreaker tug Vilja (Volition) I guess in Finland she would have been named Sisu.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Select the engine and prop that will do the job.
Add enough boat to keep them from sinking.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
As for releasing the tow, with the exception of some low rent companies, the vessels have winches that can be free-spooled to ditch the tow in an emergency. The end of the hawser is fastened to the drum with a ssmallerline that will break when the hawser is dumped.
The horsepower of modern board is so great even the synthetic ropes are too heavy to handle by hand.
Dik, the nozzles z-drive is the most efficient methods of turning horsepower into bollard pull. Conventional boats drift with the current while pulling so you'll have to stop periodically and reposition the boat. There are boats with drives on the bow, most on the stern, some on either end. Each arrangement has advantages and disadvantages.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Plus if marine ropes are anything like land based winch cables its an expensive and utter pain in the bum to keep them certified. And if you just have a hook which the hawser drops into you need less man power as well. The big boys have a small capstan winch to pull the hawser in via a messenger if they can't get under it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Diameter of my calf and it was some form of dead rope with a weave outside. It was a klondyker about to get sucked through the pentland firth. 20 min later one of the big boys from Shetland turned up and took it under tow with something twice as thick.
We weren't close so I don't know what they saw to trigger its release. We just saw it springing back towards the russian and the skipper of our boat, another dive boat from scapa. said that hawsers just parted.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
In USA ship assist tugs use some flavor of UHMWPE for the rope. Spectra and Dyneema are the dominant strands. In our fleet we run Samson Rope's Saturn 12 in 2-5/8 inch diameter.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
For Allistair, the weak link.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Ever Given Stuck Again As Estimates of Shipping Stall Total $1 Billion
https://www.newsweek.com/ever-given-stuck-again-es...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Thanks very much tb. I just noticed that the rollers guide the tow rope onto the spindle (or whatever it is called).
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Put the money in trust and go to the courts... easy solution unless the courts are as corrupt as the leaders...
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
October 2010 (Sony DSC-H2)
This is the Quincy Mine Hoist House where the hoisting machinery was installed:
October 2010 (Sony DSC-H2)
And this shows that Quincy #2 Shaft House. Note that the steam plant had been demolished years ago:
October 2010 (Sony DSC-H2)
And here is the Quincy #2 Shaft House. Note that slope of the large section of the roof shows the angle at which the shaft went into the ground. The reason for angle is that the shafts were cut to follow the geological angle of the strata, shafts than ran out horizontally from this single angled shaft. There were dozens of similar mines in the area, and they all followed that same angle. Note that Quincy #2 is the best preserved example of copper mines in the area, which was originally opened for operation in 1868.
October 2010 (Sony DSC-H2)
This shows a typical piece of 'float copper', often found in the area. The copper taken from these mines was pure ore. There was no actual 'smelting' process, only the mechanical separating of the rock from the pure copper, which was then melted and poured in ingots for shipment.
October 2010 (Sony DSC-H2)
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I wonder what the purpose of the tapered ends was? Soft start and soft stop?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Courts in international transport are a bit of nightmare.
I feel sorry for the crew of the evergreen. They will basically be held hostage until its all sorted out.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
October 2010 (Sony DSC-H2)
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And Lake Superior is very deep.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
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Siemens PLM:
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And, since my grandfather mined copper with Calumet & Hecla up to the early 60's, I have read quite a bit about the mining activity there. As you probably know, the Superior region's geology is very old dating back 1 billion years and is complicated by some 30 lava flows alternating with sedimentary layers. Sometimes flowing one direction, than another. I was surprised to learn only a few years ago that the copper and other minerals actually were formed after surface volcanic flows halted and the minerals having entered the most recent sedimentary layers by percolating up from below as the Superior anticline subsided, forcing up solutions of hot water from which the minerals precipitated upon cooling. I had long imagined that they had been deposited from intrusion of molton, pure elemental, metallic materials.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
A key one for me is that the ship in front which was reckoned to be about as big didn't have any issues with the wind...
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
While searching more on winds the Ever Given encountered, I found this information:
https://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/world/strong-...
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Lake Baikal is the largest by volume and Lake Tanganykia is the longest, but Lake Superior has the largest surface area.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lakes_by_are...
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I'll bet Baikal is colder.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Another tidbit, despite it being so far North and the water being so cold, it's very rare that Lake Superior ever freezes over during the winter. It's just that the lake is so large and contains so much water, that by the time the water temp reaches 32˚(F), it's Spring and the temps start to rise.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It seems that it freezes 95% quite a lot. Some say that's enough to qualify as full.
Some also say that has happened 5 times in the last 20yrs. Others, once. Hey, what's 5%. That's a pretty big ice cube, no matter which way you look at it.
Yahoo says 1962 as well.
Mr Google is pumping out the statistics now!
Calumet has the oldest, still in use, ice hockey rink in the world. No wonder.
https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/04/michigans-calum...
And ... due to climate change, Superior may not have any ice by 2040. ???
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The year I graduated, 1971, that winter, while we didn't set a record for total snowfall (but we did get nearly 280 inches), we did set one for the longest continuous snowfall, 52 days. Now that does not mean that it actually snowed continuously, just that it snowed a legally measurable amount in a 24 hour period, every day, for 52 days. It was like living in the tropic, except instead of getting a heavy rain shower every afternoon, we'd wake-up every morning to two or three inches a fresh snow.
Now I say 'legally measurable amount' because in the state of Michigan they allocate additional highway funds for snow removal based on the number of days in which a county had a 'legally measurable amount' of snow, so keeping an accurate record of stuff like that can mean big bucks for the local county road commission.
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
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RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-5661552...
Fair winds young lady for your upcoming exams. The guys that I know that have taken them say they are not easy or a tick in a box. .
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
That looks like the Ventusky app. https://www.ventusky.com/
AFAICT (I use it as my main weather app) it doesn't let you view historical data.
The icon in the upper right (showing wind speed) notes that those particular screenshots are from the DWD ICON model: https://www.dwd.de/EN/research/weatherforecasting/...
https://www.ventusky.com/?p=29.963;32.572;10&l...
So I'm not certain, but I think that data is ICON's historical prediction, not actual wind speed data.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The usual definition is If they are meaning sustained wind for 1 hour, that has a much more significant impact on the ship maneuvering, than the 20 second gust.
Increments on the time slider are 3 hours.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
If the Ever Given was going 13,5 knots against 5,94 knots north-northwest winds the actual speed was 7,56 knots or ??
Ever Givens speed 13.5 knots________Speed limit Suez 14 km/h ___________Wind 11 km/h________________________Wind gusts 15 km/h
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The ships reference is the water not the air. But they will take it against the ground reference. All the speeds on the AIS will be ground speed off GPS.
If the tide was pulling water north then that would decrease its ground speed and south it would decrease it.
The rudder authority is determined by the speed through water.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Your right I am confused
Well I guess that was to exact to be true.
You mean.
SOG, 10, Speed over ground, in 1/10 knot steps (0-102.2 knots) 1 023 = not available, 1 022 = 102.2 knots or higher.
If there hade been no wind at all and he hade been following the rules he hade been going 7,56 knots now it seems that he added the wind speed that he was going against 5,94 knots ending up at 13,5 knots.
Just coincident or is there some logic in that?
Best regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Standing on the moon it's not zero.
And that the wind does not come into the equation is true, as long as it isn't a Clipper Ship like the Maltese Falcon.
BR A
PS. Now I am like Schrödingers cat, but I am outside the box...
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
If you're dead, how did you write the message?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
When you take a test on quantum computer programming, you get your result in 2 envelopes. You can only open 1.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
This is an example of quantum entanglement https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_entanglement
TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Which to be honest is no bad thing
https://www.swzmaritime.nl/news/2021/04/06/smit-sa...
Load shift and rough weather. This time SMIT is off to save the day.
Didn't see the point of creating a new thread.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
A big work boat is now a drift after falling off.
So it might have fixed itself.
The salvage crew getting airlifted in.
I suspect that's why they need an unlimited master on a salvage crew so they can take command and drive it to somewhere safer. ?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Something like this...Link
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
This type was popular at the mills and booming grounds on the west coast of Canada.
Taken at the Duncan Logging Museum , Canada.
There is a prop in the cage (not shown in the photo) that may be rotated 360 degrees continuously.
There is no rudder, the boat moves in the direction that the prop is pointed.
The fixed skeg at the back turns the boat in the direction the prop is pulling it.
That is why the rolling action when the boat changes direction.
I understand that some models were driven by a V8 diesel with over 300 HP.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
First I've heard the expression... thanks.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
the z-drive?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I only know that because of pub piss taking between two holders. The Scottish none Great Lakes skipper put forward the point that the Canadian who was qualified should get the beers in because he was more senior. He claimed it was against his religion because he was French Canadian.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Airline Transport pilot license ATPL.
But we have to be qualified on a type.
There are very rare pilots out there which are the equivalent to unlimited in regards they don't need rated on the aircraft. But they are restricted to none public transport and geographical area that the qualification was issued in. They are part of the test pilot certification setup so you don't often meet them. I have flown with one twice in 17 years.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
But it's the same in the aviation world as well.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
/A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
What caused "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald?"
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Someone thought the Great Lakes were saltwater?
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
A.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
"“The vessel will remain here until investigations are complete and compensation is paid,” Osama Rabie, chairman of the Suez Canal Authority, told state television in Egypt on Thursday. “We hope for a speedy agreement,” he said. “The minute they agree to compensation, the vessel will be allowed to move.”"
Can they put the money in trust and get the courts to free the vessel?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
They will also hold the crew until its all sorted as well not just the boat.
The boat itself is only worth 170 million. So actually they know fine that the amount they want is actually more than what they have impounded.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Ship Arrest Under Maritime Law: Reasons, Procedure, and Precautions By Soumyajit Dasgupta | In: Maritime Law | Last Updated on October 9, 2019
Also limiting the shipowners liability
Increased Limits Of Liability For Maritime Claims Enter Into Force By MI News Network | In: Shipping News | Last Updated on January 23, 2017
Depending on what kind of hardball Egypt wants to play, and how the transit contract interacts with the shipowners obligations under the international conventions, I can see this cargo being delayed for some time.
More Trouble for Evergreen Suez Canal Ship, Now Being Held Captive; Sebastian Blanco, April, 13 2021
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Years.
Unless someone is willing to come off of a whole lot of cash to resolve it sooner.
Brad Waybright
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I was thinking both items... It puts the action into the courts... I still have a little more confidence in them than I do in governments (just a little, in some countries the courts are as corrupt as the governments)... and frees the cargo and crew... else as you noted, could take years to sort out this issue.
Has the boat, legally, been seized?
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
It is only those ships which gave up or took a view after setting sail and went round the Cape which they lost revenue on. A few 10's of millions. They shifted the back log in about 7-10 days at more ships per day so still got all the cash.
Don't know what the salvage team were on, but even if its Lloyds open book, this will be resolved via normal means. The rental on those puny excavators wouldn't be much...
SO their direct losses are probably <$50MM and maybe not even that. but now they've come out with a figure, they can't back down too far or they will "loose face". Only if a bunch of ship owners threatened to go the long route unless they freed the vessel on the grounds that any ship now stood the risk of being impounded in the event of an incident would they start to see sense.
The cargo owners are many and various so they have no single voice to speak up for them.
If I owned any of that stuff in the containers on the vessel I would be pressing the insurance company for total write off and re send it. It's going to be there for a long time....
Just hope not too many peoples personal possession were on it.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
John R. Baker, P.E. (ret)
EX-'Product Evangelist'
Irvine, CA
Siemens PLM:
UG/NX Museum:
The secret of life is not finding someone to live with
It's finding someone you can't live without
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Container ships don't carry live cargo.
As to the legality of the impoundment, who knows? My guess is that it is being viewed as an extraordinary fee by the SCA and they probably have the rigth to prevent the ship leaving their jurisdiction until it is paid.
This is definitely one where possession is 100% of the law....
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Hopefully they got some sort of priority once the ship had been moved...
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
While the commercial shipping fleet of Honduras is tiny, on a percentage basis, it was a world leader in the percentage of its fleet that was arrested in foreign ports for unseaworthy conditions. In the top 1 or 2.
As well they were a leader in the percentage of their fleet that sank annually. Again in the top 1 or 2.
I worked on a lot of ships generators in Honduras.
I heard a lot of interesting stories.
In regards to the Ever given:
Associate arrest.
If the claim by Egypt exceeds the amount recoverable from the disposal of the ship and cargo, The Egyptians may possibly arrest other ships owned by the same firm.
I wonder if the Evergreen line will start to avoid the canal.
Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
I wonder when this becomes 'piracy'? I'm looking forward to see what happens in the next little while. I don't know if Egypt is a signatory for the World Court... might be the next round. No one seems to be moving quickly on this, unless it's 'behind the scenes'.
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Leans against ships have been done for hundreds of years.
They also impound aircraft in the same way for money owed.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
The last aircraft that I was flying that got impounded is still sitting where I parked it in ras al khaimah in the UAE. Hasn't moved in 11 years.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Every one knows that it was for making explosives but they can't publicly say it with out proof.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
If Egypt ends up owning the ship and the containers, they would have an interesting time inspecting each one- undoubtedly a few held illegal cargo. The shippers who could be traced that had shipped illegal cargo will probably lobby Egypt to buy back their container unopened.Perhaps the official in the catbird seat who decides the fate of the containers will see a healthy addition to his/her retirement fund.And the world spins around and around.
"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://youtu.be/7ocTTkHqQcg
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
https://youtu.be/3NqN_yNrR8Y
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
SH Lesson 6 Interaction Bank Effect
Manoeuvring in Shallow Waters
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Although that starts me down a very regular thought process of why some humans have a natural talent for controlling machines which almost seems instinctive and others are monkeys on the controls.
The Dane comes from a family of seafarers his great granddad use to Captain square riggers doing the wheat run from Australia to the UK. His brother is a gifted pilot of aircraft. Both of them seem to struggle explaining why they do certain things.
Some of the best instructors and technical pilots that I have met are shall we say are rather rubbish at being the monkey on the stick, struggle with timing and job priorities. But they are utterly excellent at creating a good learning environment and supplying targeted information to others.
Once had a kid turn up at the flying school his dad had bought him 3 hours worth of flying lessons for his 15th birthday. Weather was crap low cloud so I couldn't take him off on a nav trip. So said sorry but really don't want to waste your money by taking you up. Only thing I would do with you today is doing circuits at the airport. kids face was a picture of joy at this prospect. Long story short after talking him round the first circuit and landing I basically sat with my hands on my lap and did absolutely nothing. He did everything including the coms with the tower. Spoke to his dad and said he was a natural. Last time I heard he was winning all the comps in the UK RAF for anything to do with ground attack and bombing. But was also well near the top for dog fighting as well.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
From what I know of her she won't take it personally etc. And its not your fault for not knowing. But just so there is no confusion and awkwardness I will be Scottish blunt.
Which knowing scandi's red won't mind.
And to add I don't think there is any need to delete the post or be sorry.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
And Mac, I didn't take it personally.
But as with all those things that is close to heart it always triggers the grief and sorrow, but it could as easily have been Trivial Pursuit or something else, one never really knows what will.
Best Regards Anna
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
$300M for “loss of reputation”
$300M for “salvage bonus”
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?
-Dik
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
To loos reputation it feels like the fault must lie with the Suez Canal company.
A strange way of taking responsibility for someone "elses fault" without having done something "wrong".
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Its just an opening ploy and they will alos be trying to work out how everyone is going to get their Baksheesh
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
But since I know, Scotland really never had any "real" Scottish knights,
it leads me to a kind of, under the belt, kind of question .....
Do you have a tartan.
Best Regards A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Ancient Irvine is the male side tartan. I have a kilt but haven't worn it in years. The brat has a kids kilt and loves wearing it and does so to every birthday party he goes to.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
We painted our bums blue,
BR A
“Logic will get you from A to Z; imagination will get you everywhere.“
Albert Einstein
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
"Schiefgehen wird, was schiefgehen kann" - das Murphygesetz
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
in WW1 The Scottish regiments used to fight in them as well.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Found this on youtube.
https://youtu.be/zf4qVJ65ghA
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Maybe the pilot or captain was so pleased with his ship drawing a phallus and some balls that he kind of took his eye off the large wall of sand on his right hand side....
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: Suez Canal blocked by container ship
Given half the chance pilots regularly draw penises in the sky and controllers do the same when bored.