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Pakistan Blackout
5

Pakistan Blackout

Pakistan Blackout

(OP)
Last week, there was total collapse of Pakistan power grid plunging hole of country in darkness for hours.
Any one from Pakistan in this forum who would like to share technical details please!

RE: Pakistan Blackout

(OP)
Thanks for sharing the Pakistan Today Editorial. It is interesting.
Synchronised development of generation, transmission & distribution is definitely a crucial point.
What initiated the grid collapse and how it all happened in a second is still not clear.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

A clue might be in the Pakistan system map http://www.alhasan.com/maps/pakistan-power-station..., it looks like a spine with branches. There is no path redundancy, therefore operation during an n-1 contingency is unlikely to be available with respect to transmission. Wikipedia has a post that indicates that both generation and maximum load exceed transmission capacity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity_sector_i.... The system map does not indicate any ties to India which is the only nearby area with a somewhat robust power system, so no outside system support,

This is just information pulled from the net, I claim no special knowledge.

Fred

RE: Pakistan Blackout

I don't think that matters much. The western US has a grid of interconnectivity for power run by the Independent System Operator (ISO), and load shedding can come quickly and drastically, even if only a single failure occurs.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
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RE: Pakistan Blackout

Comparing Pakistan to the US is illogical.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

Only if we never experience unplanned blackouts.

And, when PG&E performs preemptive blackouts for days on end during the dry season, it probably feels pretty similar to Pakistan, in that moment.

Not to mention the rolling brownouts to prevent load shedding during the peak A/C season.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Pakistan Blackout

Now that I think of it, you may be right. California is a bit like Pakistan. But I suspect the reason for the blackouts is very different.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

The PG&E blackouts are more political than I suspect the Pakistain blackouts.
CA has limited transmission, and generation, and requires green energy, also the recent lawsuits for fires has made it clear that blackouts are more public friendly than starting fires.

Brownouts are the utilities way to tell you to cut back. The problem is people don't pay attention. Which maybe why the 19 is so bad in CA.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

Quote:

California is a bit like Pakistan.

I'll assume there's no racist intent in that. I was simply pointing out that in an unplanned blackout; you have no power and are in the dark, so which country you're in isn't germane, other than possibly the time it takes to get power back. Of course, Puerto Rico is ostensibly in the US, but is treated like like it's not, particularly during the Trump administration

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKorP55Aqvg
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers Entire Forum list http://www.eng-tips.com/forumlist.cfm

RE: Pakistan Blackout

Quote (Which maybe why the 19 is so bad in CA.)


???

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Pakistan Blackout

dlk please put in context, many of us hate being taken out of context.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

cranky... I don't know what the 19 stands for.

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Pakistan Blackout

I thought it might be one of their clogged highways.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

OK... didn't know...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Pakistan Blackout

dik,

If you are taking about COVID "19" the 19 refers to the year 2019 which is the year that the new SARS Novel Corona virus first presented itself. Hence it is known as COVID 19.

Jim

ps. I have no medical training beyond first aid in Boy Scouts.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

Ahhhh... Covid, never made the connection... likely the same medical training... and they had the Ambulanceman's badge, back then... except I had the opportunity in suturing up a leg gash, one time...

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Pakistan Blackout

You are not alone in wondering what the context of "19" was, dik.

Bill
--------------------
Ohm's law
Not just a good idea;
It's the LAW!

RE: Pakistan Blackout

That was not what I was being taken out of context about, but yes I was talking about COVID-19.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

(OP)
It seems no one has information on Pakistan incident as yet...

RE: Pakistan Blackout

what incident? bigsmile

Rather than think climate change and the corona virus as science, think of it as the wrath of God. Feel any better?

-Dik

RE: Pakistan Blackout

National Electric Power Regulatory Authority (NEPRA) to investigate. Might be a report eventually.
https://www.techjuice.pk/nepra-to-investigate-nati...

The management troubles are too old to blaim COVID for them.
https://www.dailyexcelsior.com/pakistan-power-outa...
... The officials admitted that the blackout had exposed the mismanagement on the part of the government in running the entire power sector of the country on an ad hoc basis, it said.
The chief executive officers of all the three key companies concerned — the Central Power Generation Company-Guddu, the National Transmission and Dispatch Company (NTDC) and the National Power Control Centre (NPCC) — have been working on ad hoc or acting charge basis for years. ...

My guess here - The holes in the cheese all lined up.
Technical fault at a power plant (do not know what this is yet.)
Transmission line protection settings so that the line did not disconnect the power plant for the technical fault.
The transmission line settings may have been adjusted to reduce tripping, something to do with this line should have it's insulators cleaned several times each year, but that has been deferred for several years.
A transmission system that at the best of times is only marginally stable.

And no confirmed chief executive officers to take responsibility. Sounds like a plan for loosing money - oh that is happening also, something called by IMF circular debt,

Fred

RE: Pakistan Blackout

Sort of reminds me of something that Blackburn said at a training session for protection engineers. Always add generation protection in the substation, because who knows what those generations engineers are capable of doing.

Yes there are protection engineers in the power plants, but they are not always told about things that go on.

I was once asked from a powerplant manager, do we really need protective relays. I answered, only if you have a fault.

RE: Pakistan Blackout

When asked how soon a relay setting fix needs to be implemented, I say that we just need it before the next event. Could be that we're already too late but just don't know it yet, could be that it could wait months or years. Best to do it soon.

I’ll see your silver lining and raise you two black clouds. - Protection Operations

RE: Pakistan Blackout

So true david.

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