ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
(OP)
I am looking for a vacuum receiver tanks, and I could not find many.
I read some online forums about ASME pressure tank code, and they do talk about external pressure stability. Can I use an ASME pressure tank as a vacuum receiver tank?
The tank is subject to go through cyclic load of vacuuming and partial purging probably 5 times a minute.
Thank you in advance :)
I read some online forums about ASME pressure tank code, and they do talk about external pressure stability. Can I use an ASME pressure tank as a vacuum receiver tank?
The tank is subject to go through cyclic load of vacuuming and partial purging probably 5 times a minute.
Thank you in advance :)
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Many even high pressure vessels don't like negative pressure.
But some size and pressure rating of the vessel would be good to know.
e.g. see this for info https://www.pveng.com/home/asme-code-design/extern... noting that you might need thicker shell / heads for vacuum than pressure if the pressure is relatively low.
I think if you're talking MAWP of >50 bar you're probably Ok, but the devil is in the detail.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Engineers, think what we have done to the environment !https://www.linkedin.com/in/goutam-das-59743b30/
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Many ASME compressed air tank tells about its maximum pressure rating without min pressure rating.
For example, McMaster Carr is selling an ASME code pressure tank, which does not talk much about its min pressure. I think there is no way that I con contact the seller/manufacturer of this tank and ask this question about the min pressure... right?
I was looking at 60 gallon tank:
https://www.mcmaster.com/9426K23/
Quick FEA seems okay with 1/8" wall thickness .. but this is overly simplified model.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Regards,
Mike
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
I highly doubt 1/8" will meet FV....add cyclic and as Mike stated...a deal breaker.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
HOWEVER, if you use it this way and it fatigues a lit then someone decides to use it as a compressed air tank again then that's a potential rupture right there.
If there is no specific vacuum designation then it is not designed / certified for it.
5 time a minute for how many minutes / cycles?
I can't see a 1/8" steel tank designed for internal pressure lasting very long if this is 10 hours a day for weeks on end.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Engineers, think what we have done to the environment !https://www.linkedin.com/in/goutam-das-59743b30/
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Now the price seems to be about 4 - 6 times more than your air receiver. This tells me there is a big difference between an air receiver and a vacuum when it is properly designed.
You pays your money you take your chances....
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Cyclic loading is indeed a challenge.
Custom making one will be quite expensive... so I was hoping to find an off-the-shelf item.
This tank is never subject to a pressure higher than atm for its entire lifetime.
This tank is subject to be under cyclic loading 5 times a minute - continuous duty (24 hours).
From the quick FEA with 1/8" wall, max stress is 24 Mpa (3.48 ksi).
General fatigue strength is 40% of ultimate tensile strength.
Roughly 170 MPa (24 ksi) for steel from my research.
The stress seems to be well under its fatigue strength... would it still be a deal breaker?
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@goutam_freelance, oh. I should re-calculate the stress.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Engineers, think what we have done to the environment !https://www.linkedin.com/in/goutam-das-59743b30/
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
What will happen with the light one is that it will start to distort around joints and fittings, and then the local loads will change, and then the loads will become less uniform. A simple dent or ding in the side could lead to collapse.
Pay 5x and get one rated full vac.
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
@goutam_freelance
I will definitely check out ASME Sec VIII Dev i claus for this.
@EdStainless
Would a tank rated for full vacuum withstand the cyclic loading then?
Problem is that I would much prefer to buy a stainless steel tank; then the price would be 7~8 times. If I have to, I will do. I do not want to take a chance in any cases.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
What grade of SS are you looking for?
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P.E. Metallurgy, consulting work welcomed
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
This tank will be placed in a food processing facility.
I was also considering steel tank with powder coating outside and epoxy lined inside to lower the budget too.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
I am curious as to how the tank will be evacuated and refilled so rapidly. The pressure swing isn't much different than pressure vessel use, so there is that, but I also note that, for example, a soda bottle can see 150psi with no problem but cannot withstand more than 1 psi vacuum. See what happens if there is a flat or dent in the long side of the FEA model to be sure it's stable. (I now see that Ed had a similar observation.)
I am puzzling over the temperature cycle - it seems to me that there will be more cooling than heating, allowing condensation on the humid side (inside and or outside.)
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
It will be constantly connected to a vacuum pump.
This tank will be used to pull a vacuum from a smaller container rapidly.
So, the ports to those smaller container will be open and close, which would cause the fluctuation of vacuum level.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Search vacuum receivers and stop trying to nickel and dime this.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
I've been contacting many vacuum receiver manufacture.
Appreciated your feedback :)
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
No openings? Any pressure vessel without openings is....useless.
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
So if it costs 4-6 times then that's what it costs for something that will last for years.
Try a non certified design intended for a different purpose and see what happens, but if it fails in service this will be a false economy. But will you be long gone by then? Or will the plant manager remember you saved a couple of thousand dollars in construction, but now the plant is down for 5 days while you fix it which results in hundreds of thousands of dollars lost revenue?
Your choice.
But please let us know which choice you made and why.
Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
@goutam_freelance, I followed section VIII - Div 1. Got Factor A and B, and from that, I calculated Pa (allowable working pressure).
Yet, I don't quite understand the result. What is the unit of Pa?
If I have not made any mistakes, I got Pa = 0.25 when 1/8" wall is used for 20" dia. (L = 42.5")
@LittleInch, I understood. I know the obvious answer from the engineering standpoint.
The challenge is, the person who will approve or reject my proposal is not an engineer.
I will have to fight against many scientific mythe, company's financial related issues (upfront cost vs. future hidden cost, etc), and many rather interesting 'educated guess' from another field of engineers.
I can easily expect a situation where many conceptual thoughts are thrown at me, and in many cases, those concepts are outside of my comfort zone.
I was trying to think of many other solutions/approaches (nickel and dime basically) to prepare myself in that situation, which would bring you to the uncomfort zone.
But I do appreciate your pushback on me for going non-standard routine.
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
Factor B has a unit of MPa. (Strangely the chart that I was referring to is missing a unit).
Pa = 0.25 [MPa]. -> 36 psi
RE: ASME Pressure tank as a vacuum receivers?
There is still the cyclic service aspect. That will likely not be so easily finessed.
The problem with sloppy work is that the supply FAR EXCEEDS the demand