Absolute negative pressure in liquids

Question

Absolute negative pressure in liquids

ReuvenD10 (Mechanical)

(OP)

19 Nov 20 08:00

Hello everyone

I'm looking for information and data about Huygens's experiment on methods to generate negative pressure in liquids.
It was the first laboratory experiment to generate negative pressure in a liquid has been done by Huygens(and repeated by Boyle and Papen) in the XVIIth century (he was not aware that he reached negative values).

What I found in the internet is general information about the experiment. if anyone has or knows where to find some more information about the experiment in detail, it will be helpful.

thanks.

davefitz (Mechanical) · Answer 1 · 2020-11-19 14:10:57

It is likely related to cavitation, so papers that discuss that topic may reference Huygen's. Aside from propeller design, recent papers have used cavitation to inititiate "cold fusion" .

"...when logic, and proportion, have fallen, sloppy dead..." Grace Slick

Compositepro (Chemical) · Answer 2 · 2020-11-19 18:58:47

I'm not sure what your interest is, but regarding your title: Absolute pressure can never be negative.

3DDave (Aerospace) · Answer 3 · 2020-11-19 20:21:37

So I thought at first - there are still cohesive forces in some liquids but the realm in which they are dominating forces is relatively rare. It still seems to be the question as to how water can be drawn up the column height of a redwood tree.

Consider a forming drop of water - the surface is in tension, an apparent negative force.

What the precise interest from the OP is, I have no idea.

IRstuff (Aerospace) · Answer 4 · 2020-11-19 20:42:34

A a few articles on negative pressure:

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/229992631...
https://hal-insu.archives-ouvertes.fr/insu-0072643...
https://www.discovermagazine.com/the-sciences/the-...
https://link.springer.com/content/pdf/bfm%3A978-94...

A couple of the citations briefly talk about Huygens using a 1-m column of mercury and the occasional case where the mercury column did not fall as expected.

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Compositepro (Chemical) · Answer 5 · 2020-11-19 22:14:43

So anything under tension can be said to be under "negative pressure". That's a matter of semantics, of which I would be skeptical, until shown that such a concept is more useful than the standard concepts. I would be delighted if someone could do that, since I cannot.

IRstuff (Aerospace) · Answer 6 · 2020-11-20 00:47:23

From the Discover Magazine article, it's obviously a contentious topic. I would point you to the cited notion that trees taller than 10 m theoretically cannot exist, because it requires negative pressures to get water from the roots to the top. Certainly, under most conditions, negative pressures are probably outside of the solution space.

Debenedetti, cited in a couple of the articles appears to be a legitimate advocate, being a prof at Princeton, etc. https://cbe.princeton.edu/people/pablo-debenedetti

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Compositepro (Chemical) · Answer 7 · 2020-11-20 20:47:13

Surface tension is a well understood force and causes a positive pressure inside of bubbles.

3DDave (Aerospace) · Answer 8 · 2020-11-20 21:24:57

Surface tension is resisting a separating force at the surface. That is, it is a liquid carrying a tension load; negative pressure in that thin portion of the liquid.

Compositepro (Chemical) · Answer 9 · 2020-11-20 21:26:56

By the same logic there is negative pressure in a steel rod under tension. I that a useful concept?

IRstuff (Aerospace) · Answer 10 · 2020-11-21 19:08:10

Quote:
By the same logic there is negative pressure in a steel rod under tension. Is that a useful concept

For steel, probably not, since there are other, more direct ways of answering questions ; but for some other application, particularly liquids, possibly.

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Absolute negative pressure in liquids