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Help related fight data recorder

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lord8055

lord8055

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I have a few questions related to the Flight Data recorder . As I see here is all about helping each other . I would like to get your advice.

As I have been working on a project related to the flight data recorder, I would like to know if you could help me get some detailed information about

this, for example, how the FDR works (not general information which is on Wikipedia and all , I want detailed information, for example, how

it processes the data), how and what types of blocks are used. For example, several printed circuit boards are used, how and why they are

used, what interface is used, how is the circuitry designed , what type of electronic elements are used and how they work , design of the

FDR , how the integrated circuit is built , the design of the FDR , etc. etc. I think you'll get an idea of what type of information I need, because I want to do my specialist in the department and study of the FDR, so I need to know, and I thought that an engineer or technical expert or anyone who can help me and share knowledge will be really helpful.
 
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Each manufacturer has their own proprietary construction and data storage format. If you need more detailed information you will need to contact the maker of the ones you are interested in or buy one and reverse engineer it. There are standards for the external data bus and physical interface to supply data, but which channel is associated with each data source is likely to depend on the aircraft maker.

This appears to be the latest interface standard:
 
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I already answered your question in the other forum, but you should delete your starting post in the other thread, nevertheless. There is no processing in the FDR, it is strictly a data recorder. The format isn't strictly "proprietary" in the commercial sense, i.e., a trade secret; it's simply in the format that the company used to record the data, and therefore, has no standards to which they comply. Since data integrity is paramount, the circuit design must be minimalistic.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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IRStuff - you are right. Most of it is commonly available and not proprietary.
 
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'8055...

Be sure You have access to...

AC20-141 AIRWORTHINESS AND OPERATIONAL APPROVAL OF DIGITAL FLIGHT DATA RECORDER SYSTEMS

FAA TSO-C124 FLIGHT DATA RECORDER SYSTEMS

ARINC 747 FLIGHT DATA RECORDER (FDR)

[NTSB] FDR [FLIGHT DATA RECORDER] HANDBOOK

MIL-HDBK-2124 FLIGHT DATA RECORDER FUNCTIONAL STANDARDS FOR

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
 
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One caveat with that thesis is the technology proposed was very limited in 1976, hence, the discussion about compression. While wire recorders had more capacity, that that time, their overall reliability was poorer. A 1 MB semiconductor solid state memory would have been absurdly expensive, so compression was a way around that. However, the paranoid that I am, I wouldn't like to have compression, error detection and correction is an absolute must, since any data loss could clobber the compression, resulting in inaccessible data.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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but I want help understanding the reverse engineering how it works , the detail engineering and Study and design of flight data recording , inside working
 
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but there's nothing to it ! A FDR doesn't do nothing but log data, its a Data Recorder. Now the encoding of that data to ensure data accuracy, data retrieval, and compact storage may be something "special" but also highly proprietary. Maybe googling "data logger" will help ?

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
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If i want to learn about how the data is recorded , and how it is used in fdr , what should i actually learn and understand , which topic , so it will be easy to understand the mechanism. plus there are ample amount of PCB used inside , how to know how each pcb works and why each , special electronic components are mounted on it and how they help and work. imagine I am building a fdr from scratch , so what knowledge I would need to assembly , build it , from body to internal drives ,to mechanism. how to take the steps?
 
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It's a recorder, nothing more. The PCBs contain memory and the interface to the ARINC bus; anything beyond that, you should contact Boeing, or Airbus, or any other aircraft manufacturer.

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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Lord8055...

Hmmmmmmm… there are no short-cuts to this process... other than proprietary design manuals/data.

NOTE.
I, have assumed that we are discussing crashworthy FDRs... not FDRs intended for routine systems/components health/diagnostics monitoring and maintenance use. That is simply an avionics-rack black box for data storage and scheduled down-load to a mainframe computer.

Crashworthy FDR and CVR elements appear to be 'relatively straight forward' cousin of the 'FDRs for maintenance'... data-in, compact/storage, etc... EXCEPT that crash/post-crash survival and data-retrieval are the ass-kickers. The environmental criteria for crash/post-crash survival are mind-numbing: high speed impact... crushing ocean depths... long-duration fire... etc... are corner-of-the-envelop design mandates for [CVR/FDR] data survival/retrieval.

To design crash worthy FDRs You must understand all aspects that can be derived from printed sources. THEN: design, build, test... iterate... design build test... iterate... etc.

About now is where I insert a few quotes about experience...

Learning from experience is a faculty almost never practiced." --Barbara Tuchman, historian and writer

Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn." --C.S. Lewis

Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.” --Randy Pausch

Experience is never limited, and it is never complete.” --Henry James, writer

It is necessary for us to learn from others' mistakes. You will not live long enough to make them all yourself." -- Hyman Rickover, American admiral

Regards, Wil Taylor
o Trust - But Verify!
o We believe to be true what we prefer to be true. [Unknown]
o For those who believe, no proof is required; for those who cannot believe, no proof is possible. [variation,Stuart Chase]
o Unfortunately, in science what You 'believe' is irrelevant. ["Orion", Homebuiltairplanes.com forum]
 
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I don't get what you're trying to do, since you've seemingly done no research.

I suggest the following:
> -- they have several white papers on FDRs
> > -- obviously, researching prior art is the first step to a new design

TTFN (ta ta for now)
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert! faq731-376 forum1529 Entire Forum list
 
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as Will says, making an FDR is quite a job. What are the operational/certification requirements ?

As a machine it is very simple, it records data and makes the data available for upload. It doesn't AFAIK manipulate the data.

I doubt anyone is going to tell you know to make an FDR. We here don't know the details (or if we do we're not responding). You may get some better response from a manufacturer of the FDR (I doubt the airplane manufacturers will/can tell you much … to them it's just a piece of equipment). I'd suggest getting your hands on a scrapped FDR and opening it !

Have you tried Google or YouTube ? (a google for "flight data recorder design" yielded some promising links)

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
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any clue what i can study which can help me understand the mechanism and I have already googled and seen YouTube videos ,just explaining overall not detail, and manufactures never respond.
 
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"and manufactures never respond."

Well blow me down, companies don't give away their designs and intellectual property to an unknown person who just asks for it. Shock horror

You might therefore have just chosen the wrong subject to study....



Remember - More details = better answers
Also: If you get a response it's polite to respond to it.
 
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I'd have thought any "mechanism" was solid state these days.

You may take a trip to the patent office, but I suspect these aren't patented (as that means showing everyone what you're doing).

I suspect the trick is making the data survive fire and water (and whatever else).

And, no, it looks like we can't (aren't) going to be able to help you further.

another day in paradise, or is paradise one day closer ?
 
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