×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!
  • Students Click Here

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Jobs

Drilling roads on the swamps

Drilling roads on the swamps

Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
We are a family of four graduates of Bauman Moscow state technical University. We have been drilling wells for water since 1996. Our successes are in http://xn--9-gtbdygk.xn--p1ai/page4.html (http://дело9м.рф/page4.html): New to drillers: reliable downhole filter and auger pins.
We are exploring a new way of drilling roads on the swamps. (The construction of maintainable roads on weak soils). See details in https://ardexpert.ru/article/13723 .
We want to know your opinion about this method.
We are interested in cooperation.
Thanks for your attention.
[img https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/u...][img https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/u...]Alexander Morozov, Moscow region +7 903 979 5133

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

I don't mean to be rude, but the fact that your diagram is labeled in Russian means that it is likely unintelligible to many of the professionals that check these fora. If you updated the labels with English, I think that you would get a bit more traction...

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
You're right! I apologize and correct myself.
On images:
1. Water is the cheapest means of transport. If there is one.
2. We want to replace weak soils from under the plate, for example, with a hollow auger. If necessary, the vibrator compacts the sand-gravel mixture under the raised slab as an imitation of a tamping machine. The anchor resists only horizontal forces. Pile-fence is made in any version, if it is necessary. The hole-crater is an example of the roughness of the plate.
3. Tamping machine

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

I understand that you are wanting to create a road embankment in areas with very poor soils, but I do not readily understand the method from your images. Could you provide a bit more of a step-by-step of your proposed process?

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
I suggest looking at the English text in https://ardexpert.ru/article/13723 . I wrote it a long time ago. My English is bad (there was no need). So I need a long time to think again and write a new text. I will try to write well.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
Addition to https://ardexpert.ru/article/13723
1. Preface. Around me new technical challenges arise only as an imitation of other countries. Это беда.
The beginning.
At the beginning of summer 2016 I learned that my youngest daughter-in-law is pregnant (this is Dmitry Morozov, born in March 13 2017, a future engineer). I was excited, wanted to make a labor feat in honor of the little new Morozov and offered to make a vibrating table for casting perforated concrete slabs for my younger son. Later, he said that the canopy for drilling rigs is more important, and holes in the slabs are not needed. But the perforated slab stuck in my head.
There was no experience of road construction, soil mechanics is unfamiliar to me. So I started looking for outside support. Several Russian professors wrote: it is necessary to try. I'm a driller and I know that using water is convenient to move the soil. These are all my achievements.
I began to fantasize. We need a scientific supervisor. Now drilling is not enough, therefore my family can not earn money for research.
But the problem seems very interesting, and I want to take possible part in its solution.
2. Keywords: hydraulic drilling (drilling depth 10m, diameter 0.1,…,1m), Abyssinian well, hydraulic fracturing, hydro mining of minerals, hydroabrasive cutting.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

May I ask what is the advantage/benefit of your method compared with the existing proven method by sheet piling, similar to building a cofferdam?

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
I don't know!
But I hope for the correctness of the classic set: low price, reliability, durability, maintainability, environmental friendliness.
Why am I trying to figure out this problem?
1. This is my "child" and I want him to live long.
2. Several Soviet engineers wrote to me: you should try. For example, Professor Eduard Dobrov from MADI (http://www.madi.ru/ , dobrov@egg.madi.ru) wrote on November 28 2016 : "the Method is not indisputable, but the author's proposal may well become the subject of discussion on the page of the journal». (Способ не бесспорен, но предложение автора вполне может стать предметом дискуссии на стр. журнала. Почему бы и нет?)
3. I like to find the right solutions to new problems:
https://permies.com/t/95565/grade-wood-constructio...
http://forum.abok.ru/index.php?showtopic=121715, message from September 20 2019 in Russian, but with pictures
I wrote about a hundred unanswered letters to geoengineers in Europe, America, China, Malaysia.
I hope to read the answers to your question on this forum.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

Quote:

I don't know!

That's the main problem that people don't response to your letters. Any new idea needs to clearly state its purpose (you did), and why people shall spent time to evaluate the idea (you did not). So you still have a lot of things to do, like finding out existing technics that compete the same market as yours, then in what ways your idea/method is superior to the others. Good luck.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
My humble obeisances. You got me thinking.
In the North of the Moscow region there is an abundance of glacial moraine ridges, in the lowlands of which there are swamps as in the picture.
Let's compare the discussed method of construction of a 3-meter-wide road in a swamp with two known ones: the construction of bored piles and the classical one.
Which method is the most high productivity?
1. We will make changes to the Soviet drilling rig SBSH-812. I assume:
- the augers will be hollow, the diameter is 800 mm, the diameter of the auger pipe is increased, the size of the ribs is reduced,
- the mast will be able to work at angles of 45,..., 90 degrees,
- the water-saturated sand-gravel mixture is fed to the auger at a speed of 1 cubic meter per minute under a pressure of up to 50,..., 200 meters of water column.
Then the injection time of the embankment with slopes on the site of the swamp will be equal to 180 minutes. The work will be done in 1,.... 2 working shifts taking into account the time of moving the equipment and its maintenance. Then I can lay perforated slabs. My calculations may not be accurate, but they do not contradict the laws of nature.
2. The second method is the construction of eight bored piles in two rows as supports of a single-span bridge (without overlapping and grillages). The diameter of the piles is 400 mm, the length is 12 m.
The time for concrete to harden is several days. The laws of nature do not allow you to do the job faster.
3. Classic. Water is removed by wellpoints (my experience in the USSR is in the picture), peat is removed mechanically, an embankment of sand-gravel mixture from the nearest ridge is built mechanically. Pumping water will take several days with pumps of any capacity. The laws of nature will not allow otherwise.
Qualitative assessment.
1. The mound is stronger, more reliable than piles, because distributed systems are more stable than concentrated ones.
2. The discussed method can be well automated (robotic). Manual labor is small, the technology is monotonous, measuring the loads on the auger and water pump will allow you to study the soil of the swamp.
3. The mound is compacted with water, not a vibrating roller.
4. The volume (diameter) of the injection of sand-gravel mixture may be larger than the diameter of the screw (injector) due to the weakness of the substituted water-saturated soil
For clarifications it is necessary to try to ensure high productivity.

На севере Московского региона обилие ледниковых моренных гряд, в низинах которых бывают болота как на картинке.
Сравним обсуждаемый способ строительства дороги шириной 3 метра на болоте с двумя известными: строительство буроинъекционных свай и классическое выторфовывание. Какой способ самый высоко производительный?
1. Внесем изменения в Советский буровой станок МБШ-812. Допустим:
- шнеки будут пустотелые диаметром 800 мм с увеличенным диаметром трубы и уменьшенным размер реборт,
- мачта сможет работать под углами 45,…, 90 градусов,
- подача водонасыщенной песчано-гравийной смеси в шнек со скоростью 1 кубометр в минуту под давлением до 50,…, 200 метров водяного столба.
Тогда время инъектирования насыпи с откосами на месте болота будет равно 180 минут:
(10 метров)*(6\2 метров средняя глубина болота)*(3*2 метра ширина насыпи с откосами)\ (1 кубометр в минуту)=180 минут.
С учетом времени перемещения оборудования и его обслуживания – 1,…, 2 рабочих смен, после которых можно настилать перфорированные плиты. Возможно, мои расчеты не точны, но они не противоречат законам природы.
2. Устройство восьми свай в два ряда в качестве опор однопролетного моста. Без перекрытия и ростверков. Диаметр свай 400мм, длина 12м.
Время для затвердевания бетона несколько суток. Законы природы не позволяют сделать работу быстрее.
3. Классический. Обезвоживание иглофильтрами (см. картинку из СССР с моим опытом), механическое удаление торфа, заполнение песчано-гравийной смесью из ближайшей гряды с выравниванием и уплотнением самосвалом, бульдозером, виброкатком. Без твердых одежд. Одна лишь откачка воды займет несколько суток насосами любой производительности. Законы природы иное не позволят.
Качественные оценки.
1. Насыпь долговечней, надежней свай, потому что распределенные системы устойчивей сосредоточенных. Пример, telegram против ФСБ.
2. Обсуждаемый способ хорошо автоматизируется (роботизируется). Мало ручного труда, технология однообразна, измерение нагрузок на шнек и водяной насос позволяют изучать грунт болота.
3. Насыпь уплотняется водой, а не виброкатком.
4. Объем (диаметр) инъекции песчано-гравийной смеси может быть больше диаметра шнека (инъектора) из-за слабости замещаемого водонасыщенного грунта
Для уточнений надо пробовать ради высокой производительности труда.
Используется три единицы техники: буровая, шасси с насосным оборудованием и бункером для ПГС, погрузчик.
Любопытны мнения русскоязычных, умеющих ставить и решать новые технические задачи.
Спасибо за внимание.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
There are times when time is more valuable than money.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

After all, I am not familiar with drilling operation, but "hydraulic drilling" sounds familiar to me. Also, perforated slab been utilized in many hydropower projects around the world.

Instead writing thesis, have you tried your method in any project to proof the advantages you claimed? I suggest to start locally, looking for small scale projects. Success will follow your achievement in real applications.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
Thanks!
You wrote: «Also, perforated slab been utilized in many hydropower projects around the world».
I ask for examples of the use of perforated slabs in the world. In Russia such slabs were not used, but theses about perforated slabs were written in Siberia. In Russia, I did not find support even as a discussion. This forum is the first discussion for me. I don't have enough knowledge about soil mechanics. I will once again try to attract the attention of Russian engineers to the problem under discussion. Perhaps your reasoning will help me.
I compacted railway embankments with a vibrator while on vacation in the USSR. In 2016, I successfully compacted the soil under the slab (see picture) with a Chinese vibrator. I can't buy and remake the МБШ-812 drilling rig to continue the research.
My thesis is described in https://www.eng-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=461144
[img https://res.cloudinary.com/engineering-com/image/u...]

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

In many submerged hydroelectrical powerplants, the perforated slab is used in the draft tube to reduce effect of buoyancy.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
1. retired13 wrote (translation):
«Во многих гидроэлектростанциях перфорированная плита используется в отсасывающей трубе гидротурбины для уменьшения трения. В работах Федяевского К.К. «Снижение сопротивления трения путем изменения физических констант на стенке». Доклады АН СССР, 9-10, 1943 и Корнилова В.И. «Использование микровдува воздуха через пористую стенку для снижения трения на плоской пластине». Вестник Новосибирского университета. Т. 5, вып. 3, 2010. описан способ уменьшения трения (на 45-47%) о твердую поверхность путем вдува газа в пограничный слой. Этот очень эффективный способ снижения гидравлического трения использован в самых скоростных торпедах типа "Шквал" (О. Капцов, Военное обозрение, 20.06.2013)».
2. Америка славится
- работящими мужиками,
- толковыми инженерами,
- любопытными естествоиспытателями,
умеющие работать вместе лучше всех в мире. Они присутствуют на этом обсуждении?
3. Поэтому надо попробовать добавить воздушный компрессор, чтобы песчано-гравийная смесь двигалась к болоту со скоростью торпеды «Шквал» на пользу, а не во вред, когда время дороже денег.
Therefore, we must try to add an air compressor to the sand-gravel mixture moved to the swamp at the speed of a torpedo "Шквал" for the benefit, not harm, when time is more valuable than money.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
Два способа научно-технического развития.
Первый: «Цап-царап».
Второй: «Обретение МГД-генератора во времена Кощея Бессмертного … вдохновили слова служащих ГУНИД МО РФ».
Как правильно?

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
Features of drilling wells for water in the North of the Moscow region.
1. The aquifer sands and the soil above these sands have many stones. So we came up with, tested, corrected the errors and made many hundreds of pieces of innovative downhole filters that are protected from these stones, and do not break when the device wells.
2. Drilling water wells is an unsustainable construction task. Small errors in the construction of wells lead to catastrophic consequences.
3. When drilling wells for water, it is often necessary to work continuously without breaks for lunch, Smoking, rest. Otherwise, the work already done will be in vain and it will have to be redone.
We know how to work like that.

RE: Drilling roads on the swamps

(OP)
The Great Vasyugan Mire, the largest swamp system in the Siberia. Is there such a swamp in America? Russia wanted to build a road through this swamp by 2016.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Resources

White Paper - A Guide to 3D Printing Materials
When it comes to using an FDM 3D printer effectively and efficiently, choosing the right material at the right time is essential. This 3D Printing Materials Guide will help give you and your team a basic understanding of some FDM 3D printing polymers and composites, their strengths and weaknesses, and when to use them. Download Now

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close