×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

(OP)
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/mar/02/mosul...

"Iraqi engineers involved in building the Mosul dam 30 years ago have warned that the risk of its imminent collapse and the consequent death toll could be even worse than reported."

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

I've seen this article or similar ones several times in the last couple of months.
It's an issue that occurs when a country's governments is completely dysfunctional. They have first world facilities and a third world government. They know there's a problem, but there is no way to remedy it.
It's really too bad. It doesn't look like it will end well. Maybe the dam will leak slowly enough to lower the risk.

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Not clear to me why they don't just lower its level waaaaay down until they get things better.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

One flood gate is jammed and they have technical reasons that both flood gates must work together. For some reason opening only one flood gate may accelerate the erosion.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Seems like poor planning to not have the ability to open one gate as a fail safe. I'm sure accelerated erosion would be preferable over catastrophic failure.

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

You'd think they'd have enough explosives on hand to blow some flood gates open...

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Why not re-activate the diversion tunnel, if it exists?

Answer - probably would generate an uncontrollable flow situation too.

This is a bad scenario...

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

OK.

Rather than compromise a gate system that obviously does not work, consider blowing one of the abutments to either side (one, both?) of the structure where the depth is less and let the water gradually flow out, hopefully slowly eroding as it exits, thus lowering the maximum elevation. If it is earth fill though, this controlled breach could be a problem downstream, but will probably be less of a problem than an uncontrolled breach at the center of the structure.

If this dam is for power, why not open up the generating capacity, increasing the outflow too.?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

To use a term that I understand was coined in British power plants in the day of fly-ball governors:
I hope that they are running the generators "Balls to the walls." to use the maximum water possible.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

The flow rate through turbines is substantially lower than that of the spillways. Cranking the generators to their maximum would probably be bad for the power output, and probably burn out the bearings relatively quickly.

The spillway on the west, near the generating station, has two outlets, but there is at least one picture showing water coming from only one of the two outlets. I guess the one on the east is a flood control spillway, to prevent the reservoir from overtopping the dam itself.

TTFN
I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!
homework forum: //www.engineering.com/AskForum/aff/32.aspx
FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies forum1529: Translation Assistance for Engineers

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Tried grouting apparently with little effect. The solution lies in making the water solid. A freeze curtain under the dam itself. The water will continue to leach... just not at the dam. It will take a lot of energy though... but hey, it's a generating facility, right?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Pumps.. Heck it's down hill! They could set up a crapload of siphons. They can be made out of anything like culvert or concrete pipe. Or a couple thousand fire houses. <= bawhahaHAHAHAhaaa

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

As impractical as it sounds, my first thought was also that it's downhill, so drape a bunch of siphon hoses over the top.

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Heh, fire "houses", that's a hilarious image.

Professional and Structural Engineer (ME, NH)
American Concrete Industries
www.americanconcrete.com

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

If the dam goes out, the issue of overloaded generators becomes moot.

Bill
--------------------
"Why not the best?"
Jimmy Carter

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

So, If this dam breaches, will there be a moat around Babylon again?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

L ooks like they are grouting constantly and the grout is being washed out. Does anyone have any info on what the Italian engineers are proposing to do.

Intrusion Prepakt /marineconcrete.com

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Italian engineers are likely going to be changing the grout mix design to bring it upto to European / North American standards, rather than accepting past Iraqi practice. There's nothing that can't be adequately grouted if enough money is thrown at it.

RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

That's where the freeze curtain comes in - to allow grouting to take place downstream of it. Once the grout is in place, the curtain can be shut down and/or moved.

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: Pending Disaster? Mosul Dam, Iraq

Ground freezing in ground with flowing water is VERY difficult. That's why we use bubblers alongside dam intake equipment to keep the water moving and not allow it to freeze. Ground freezing for tunnels in NYC failed where there was an unknown underground drainage channel to the Hudson.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login



News


Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close