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17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Is it just me or shouldn't there be some kind of rebar sticking out of the bottom of this building which is laying sideways?

very odd don't you think...

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RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Isn't the rebar just the cross-floor stuff for that particular floor?

I'm amazed how most of the building stayed.... assembled.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Hard to tell from the picture, but it appears that the picture shows the building roof.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

BBC reports that the building's concrete was "reinforced" (not exactly the correct word) with tin cans and styrofoam. Visible at a place where it cracked.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-35515749

Perhaps it was not a load bearing wall.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Holy crap, the sheer amount of space taken up by those cans and styrofoam is astonishing! How the weight of the building itself didn't cause those walls to collapse is surprising.

This is a case where the guilty parties should be slowly killed with a butter knife.

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

No no Dan. You put them in concrete rubble where they can almost get out... And, where they can almost reach a glass of water.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

We use cardboard voids in our concrete, they use cooking oil cans. And we also embed foam plastic in our concrete (for marine floats).

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Expansive clays?

Mike McCann, PE, SE (WA)


RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

I wonder what the footing system consisted of? Over-estimate of the dead weight of the structure is the over-turning calcs?

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Can someone explain to me the legitimate purpose(s) of filling out a wall with displacement material (e.g., styrofoam)? Savings in concrete can be fantastic, I imagine, but then why not create two separate walls to begin with... or would it generally be too cost-prohibitive to create them separately? If so, why not just make the wall thinner in the first place?

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

I'd think wall not just being thinner might have something to do with 'I' where as local voids with structure around them may help maximize 'I' for given mass.

One report mentioned the age of the building meant it had been built before stricter codes were introduced in the wake of another strong quake.

We have a vendor based in that city, out main contact is OK but doesn't know yet about his colleagues as they are out on break for Chinese new year, I'm hoping & praying for the best.

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RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

It is probably more common in the deck slabs not the walls. Voided biaxial slabs are reinforced concrete slabs in which voids are installed to reduce the amount of concrete.

The main problem with concrete construction is the weight, which limits the span length. Research in the use of reinforced concrete in buildings looks at reducing the weight, either by reducing the weight or overcoming the weakness in tension. The voids are used to reduce weight.

The use of voids is common in prefabricated concrete deck slabs:


RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Cans probably used in similar manner as we have used "waffle slabs", except we pull out the "cans" and reuse them. Reduce weight and keep slab depth for strength.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

the article said the "tin cans were apparently used as filler inside some of the concrete beams"

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Ya but you can't trust articles to know what they're talking about. Someone could see cans embedded in concrete and not recognize them as a plug for a hollowcore slab, and then mention "tin cans used as filler".

Sadly the media are not particularly good at their job. I know of several events of which I have personal knowledge where the reporting had very little to do with what actually happened. Take everything they say with a grain of salt, and the more political or technical the topic, the less you believe without evidence.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Did you look at the article pics, allgood? They were tin cans...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

I saw the image but I don't know where those cans were in the structure, and if they were used to block off voids before a pour and were left in, or if they were in a wall, or what. I'm not saying its good they were there, I'm saying that I'm withholding judgement and not trusting the BBC to report anything correctly.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

There are plenty of pictures online showing various aspects and various angles. This one (below) shows a fair amount of thickness on one side of the cans. But who knows...



Should this idle speculative discussion be terminated until the final-formal report is issued? ponder

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

No, but caution should be urged before judging based on reporting of major news organizations who have neither the knowledge nor interest in getting a story right rather than making a story controversial.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Well one side has mesh within a 50mm thickness but the other side has no reinforcement at all!

Nice and ductile.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Does anyone think those cans, and their spacing and location, were specified on the engineering drawings for that structure??

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

What engineering drawings?

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

The use of voids is common in concrete deck slabs. Whether it is a void or the void is filled with a tin can, what is the difference.

Don't believe the failure of a deck slab resulted in the building rotating over. A failure of a floor slab would have caused the floor to drop vertically.

Most likely there was a failure associated with the vertical columns.

"The structural system of the building was pretty poor," said Sheen Mau-song, a professor of civil engineering and member of the Taiwan Civil Engineering Association who is part of the government's team investigating the collapse.

"There were very few pillars on the first floor, the pillars were quite scattered about, and the materials, from the weakest side, were destroyed."

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

I think it matters if those cans were placed in there solely to save on concrete for monetary reasons, not sound engineering practice (i.e., cheap/greedy contractor). Looking at the pic above, I don't see much webbing between the cans... that may be fine on a vertical, non-load supporting wall, but I would hope that's not a load-supporting deck slab.

Don't know, civil isn't my bag...

Dan - Owner
http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake


"It is preposterous" to think that cooking oil cans would be used in a pillar for support purposes, Tai said.

http://focustaiwan.tw/news/asoc/201602070017.aspx

This image shows the columns on the first floor after the building rotated clockwise:

Weiguan Jinlong apartment Building:

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Perhaps the cans were not the direct cause of the building collapse.

But perhaps they are a clue about how shoddy the construction was.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Looks like a short seven stories.
Does the reinforcement look small?
Suspect substandard construction, weak concrete, improper reinforcement and stirrup

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Regarding "Looks like a short seven stories"?

The building is on its side.

"If only one building fails catastrophically and everything else is left standing with only cosmetic damage, one can only assume that the structure had a fundamental flaw in its design, or that its construction was very shoddy."

http://seismo.berkeley.edu/blog/seismoblog.php/201...

These are the pictures of the building prior to the earthquake from google earth.










Reliefweb Link

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Whoa, that's a seismically complex building to model and for that matter to build too.

Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

(OP)
I don't often deal in seismic, however, this looks like a case of "Soft First Story" behavior?

The picture provided by bimr at 02:10 looks like the stories above are displacing in a separate direction from the first...

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Yes the first floor has that stilty look to it.



Keith Cress
kcress - http://www.flaminsystems.com

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

This building fell like a tree cut with an axe. Either most of the first floor columns collapsed or ground liquefied. There was a massive failure of some sort, not just a few columns.

RE: 17 Story Building in Taiwan Collapses post 6.4 magnitude earthquake

Soil liquefaction has been identified as a problem in previous earthquakes. The government said it will soon make public a list of areas potentially vulnerable to soil liquefaction in a first step to address the problem that may have contributed to the collapse or subsidence of several buildings in the Feb. 6 earthquake.

http://international.thenewslens.com/post/283869/

http:http://peer.berkeley.edu/pdf/reconnaissance_Taiwan...

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