×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

(OP)
Hello,

I am new to this forum so please forgive me if my question is posted in the wrong forum.

I am currently trying to update my knowledge on sea clutter and in one of the books I am reading the author implies there can be a relation between sea clutter and wind speed. Is this really true? Isn't he really meaning there is a relationship between clutter and the state of the sea, characterized by for instance wave height? There is in some sense a relation between wind speed and waves but that is not an unambiguous one. Please help me with this question.

RadarMike

RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

Wind speed, reach, and duration leads to waves. But, for example, if the wind reversed then it would start knocking down the existing waves before building them up in the opposite direction.

The height of the waves will affect the radar clutter in a non-trivial relationship to the radar wavelength and the geometry.

Disclaimer: I'm not really a subject matter expert in the details. The above is mostly informed common sense.

RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

(OP)
In response to VE1BLL,

Ok, thanks.

It would be nice if someone else in this forum with knowledge within this field could give their opinion as well.


RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

This is a relatively quiet forum. But perhaps someone else will chime in.

I Googled the search terms: radar sea clutter wind speed

...and there seems to be quite a bit of info. Some of summaries hint at counter examples to refute the claim of a simple relationship.

RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

you may get a formula for sea clutter for use on a radar who's beam contacts water at a great distance, and if you consider smooth water vs. wind whipped water, you'd easily surmise reflections are higher in windy conditions. You likely won't find anything for close in wave reflection. Years ago we had to change antennas on a Navy ship from wide beam to narrow beam to reduce sea clutter as nobody attempted to calculate splash back from waves at 200 meters, which swamped the receiver. So in searching for info, if reflections are from close in waves, you will have more trouble getting an answer.

RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

Sea state is roughly proportional to wind state, and more or less corresponds in a typical wave height in metres.

So Beaufort wind 6 produces sea state 6 produces 6 metre (trough to peak) waves eventually.

That is a horrible simplification.

Cheers

Greg Locock


New here? Try reading these, they might help FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies http://eng-tips.com/market.cfm?

RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

(OP)
In response to Higgler,

My primary interest is when energy (radar beam) hits the waves at great distance. Your experience from the naval vessel was an interesting one and something to take in to consideration when placing the radar antenna. I suppose the antenna was not placed very high up on that ship.

RadarMike

RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

(OP)
In response to GregLocock,

You are right it is a horrible simplification and only works on great oceans in combination with fully developed seas smile

RadarMike

RE: Relatrion between sea clutter and wind speed?

The ship was an FFG, and it was close to the deck. So fairly low. The splash back effect problem from the ocean depends on the systems tx power and the sensitivity of the rx system.
We needed full duplex. If you're pulsed, no problem. If you need to look thru 100% of the time, could be an issue.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Resources

Low-Volume Rapid Injection Molding With 3D Printed Molds
Learn methods and guidelines for using stereolithography (SLA) 3D printed molds in the injection molding process to lower costs and lead time. Discover how this hybrid manufacturing process enables on-demand mold fabrication to quickly produce small batches of thermoplastic parts. Download Now
Design for Additive Manufacturing (DfAM)
Examine how the principles of DfAM upend many of the long-standing rules around manufacturability - allowing engineers and designers to place a part’s function at the center of their design considerations. Download Now
Taking Control of Engineering Documents
This ebook covers tips for creating and managing workflows, security best practices and protection of intellectual property, Cloud vs. on-premise software solutions, CAD file management, compliance, and more. Download Now

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close