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P&ID's

P&ID's

(OP)
My background is Petro/Chemical Control System Engineering and Instrument engineering. I now work at a paper mill. There has been some issues concerning the P&ID's. Does anyone know the OSHA requirements for having updated and correct P&ID's drawings. I was told that these are not required for a paper mill. Can anyone shed any light on this subject.

RE: P&ID's

I do not know about the OSHA rules, but is it not just good practise to keep them up to date?
And if there was to be an 'incident' and your P&ID's were out of date it could be legally risks.

Francis
www.controldraw.co.uk
www.s88control.blogspot.com

RE: P&ID's

In the 4 companies where I've worked, P&IDS have always been considered as PSM required documents, and necessary to be kept up to date.  

Check into OSHA 1910.119(d)(2) or thereabouts...

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This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

RE: P&ID's

Are you covered under PSM?

OSHA 1910.119
 This section contains requirements for preventing or minimizing the consequences of catastrophic releases of toxic, reactive, flammable, or explosive chemicals. These releases may result in toxic, fire or explosion hazards

1910.119(d)
Process safety information. In accordance with the schedule set forth in paragraph (e)(1) of this section, the employer shall complete a compilation of written process safety information before conducting any process hazard analysis required by the standard. The compilation of written process safety information is to enable the employer and the employees involved in operating the process to identify and understand the hazards posed by those processes involving highly hazardous chemicals. This process safety information shall include information pertaining to the hazards of the highly hazardous chemicals used or produced by the process, information pertaining to the technology of the process, and information pertaining to the equipment in the process

1910.119(d)(3)
Information pertaining to the equipment in the process.

(i)(B)
Piping and instrument diagrams (P&ID's);

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This is normally the space where people post something insightful.

RE: P&ID's

However, consider the title and such for 1910.119.  A quick download (I don't have on this machine either) find OSHA 1910.119.  This is very important in the hydrocarbon business - and does not seam as important int the pulp and paper business in many areas.

RE: P&ID's

rbear, I've worked in chemical plants and refineries, which are covered by OSHA 1910.  I've worked in industries that were not because they didn't have much to cause trouble, e.g., explosions, dangerous releases of gases, etc.  Those industries, from my experience, do not value P&IDs and will not have them.  If they do have them, they will typically not be maintained.  The same applies to loop sheets, one lines, and elementaries.

RE: P&ID's

If your paper mill includes a bleached pulp mill and a chemical preparation plant and a recovery boiler, then you will likely need these drawings up-to-date.

RE: P&ID's

BTW my paper mill control logic data often reflects more complexity than the P&ID such as blocks and logic paths for auto/manual and such choices.  This is different that my exposure to most HC plants.

RE: P&ID's

How do they maintain their LO/TO documentation if the P&ID's are wrong?

RE: P&ID's

Hi everyone,
i want know abt the flow, level , pressure and temperatur upstream /down stream,i dnt know abt it , if any one share some info means its vry usefull for me.
coming to point im working in a petrochemical plant as a installation engineer so before anyone ask me abt that i want to gain some knowledge............\
hope u understands.......

RE: P&ID's

99..9,

>>>i want know abt the flow, level , pressure and temperatur <<<
That would be a good reason to study the P&ID for your plant.

Please start a discussion of your own when you have started doing so.


 

Mike Halloran
Pembroke Pines, FL, USA

RE: P&ID's

Some process applications vary on P&ID details.  Variations exist among process and client differences.  OSHA 1910.119 applies to hazardous applications,  Details differ among process types for the P&ID control and other aspects.  Some reflect a control scheme with auto/manual etc. with the assorted signal characteristics.  Paper may reflect many selections within a loop.  Refinery/petrohemical may reflec PID with computer and other override schemes.  Most flow sheets show the PID scheme without bypass or complex schemes.

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