slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
(OP)
From
<http ://www.mys anantonio. com/news/l ocal_news/ Sinkhole_p rompts_eva cuation_on _Northwest _Side.html>
( click on " slide show " for wall failure photos)
San Antonio Express-News jan 24 2010
Authorities evacuated about 80 homes in a Northwest Side neighborhood Sunday when ground caved in behind several houses, pushing earth down a 30-foot hill and into two retaining walls that cracked and threatened residences below.
No one was injured, and agencies acted quickly to address the endangered homes near West Hausman Road and Loop 1604.
Describing the collapse as a "slope failure," authorities at a Sunday night meeting told residents from The Hills at Rivermist subdivision that in some areas the crevices grew to 12 to 15 feet deep and 6 to 8 feet wide. But they didn't know the cause.
The meeting, held at O'Connor High School, attracted about 200 residents wanting answers from the builder of the homes and emergency personnel.
Laurin Darnell, a vice president for Pulte Homes Inc., thanked residents for their patience but had no information on what caused the problem and said engineers were assessing the area.
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( click on " slide show " for wall failure photos)
San Antonio Express-News jan 24 2010
Authorities evacuated about 80 homes in a Northwest Side neighborhood Sunday when ground caved in behind several houses, pushing earth down a 30-foot hill and into two retaining walls that cracked and threatened residences below.
No one was injured, and agencies acted quickly to address the endangered homes near West Hausman Road and Loop 1604.
Describing the collapse as a "slope failure," authorities at a Sunday night meeting told residents from The Hills at Rivermist subdivision that in some areas the crevices grew to 12 to 15 feet deep and 6 to 8 feet wide. But they didn't know the cause.
The meeting, held at O'Connor High School, attracted about 200 residents wanting answers from the builder of the homes and emergency personnel.
Laurin Darnell, a vice president for Pulte Homes Inc., thanked residents for their patience but had no information on what caused the problem and said engineers were assessing the area.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
My first day of my first engineering job, my boss says to me, "you know what the three most important things in civil engineering are?"
"Water, Water and Water... You can design and build a bunch of pretty stuff - walls, bridges, roads, etc., but if you don't consider water, it can destroy it all."
Looks to me like someone neglected proper surface and subsurface drainage behind that wall, which likely caused this failure. And in areas where you are creating a fill slope wall like this, getting solid soil compaction behind the wall is also imperative, and may have contributed to the slide.
If I didn't know better, I would have thought this video was taken in California - happens there all the time.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
D9DF2SBO0@news.ap.org&client=landingpage&qid=n1gmole5demdse45laxd4v45" target="_blank">http://ka
Official: No permit for crumbling retaining wall
Jan 25, 2010 (5:50p CST)
By MICHELLE ROBERTS (Associated Press Writer)
SAN ANTONIO - A San Antonio planning official says a retaining wall designed to hold up the land beneath a group of homes that now sit precariously on a crumbling hilltop did not have a permit.
Planning Director Roderick Sanchez says Centex Homes was required to get a permit for the 1,000-foot-long stone wall used to shore up a hill where several homes were built - but no permit was acquired.
He says the builder's parent company, Pulte Homes Inc., assured the city that it had a certified engineer design the wall and it was built to specifications.
But so far, Sanchez said Monday that the city has not seen any verification.
About 25 homes remain evacuated after a landslide that began Sunday threatened to collapse the wall and send several houses tumbling downhill.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
The slideshow did not slide too well for me, but it looks as though the wall was just constructed of aggr./stone and not tied into the fill with anything.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
A little birdie just flew by and said "Cheap, Cheap".
Mike McCann
MMC Engineering
Motto: KISS
Motivation: Don't ask
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
I wonder though, if the city issued certificates of occupancy for the houses.
I bet the design engineer comes forward with acceptable drawings, only to find out the contractor didn't build it that way.
The contractor will probably say the developer made them to build it another way, but it won't be in writing.
Let the finger pointing officially begin!!
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
http://justanotherlemon.com/CCFL/pulte.htm
Obviously, this lady has an agenda. But it seems like it would be cheaper to buy her house than listen to her squawk.
At what point is the price of proper engineering and construction become more than the costs of mitigating these disasters?
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
We have had some possible work for keystone retaining walls that were built wrong on a slope holding up a house, and I don't think the owner wanted to pay us to fix the badly constructed walls. Do you guys think the subdrain water is the issue with this wall? Or the footings/piles not done correctly?
Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
Was there a drain? Would it have made a difference in a sustained period of wet weather? I dunno. I've also read that the soils in the area are clayey, making them more difficult to drain effectively, as well as making the friction angle lower than most other soils. Can't say whether those two effects were involved, but they would sure be on my list of suspects and unindicted co-conspirators. They also have swelling clay in that area. Co-conspirator, or an innocent bystander (this time)?
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
Sad thing is that you can typically get a pretty cheap design if you have soil data in the surrounding area.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
If clay is all you have to work with, do you install drains to keep it from turning to a semi-liquid? Is that feasible?
Isn't the whole idea of any wall here and the use of clay fill rather dumb when you know what rainy weather and clays do there?
Would not the city be at fault for letting this overall development to be done in the first place? That's what Plan Commissions are for.
The poor wall happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. It can't be all the wall's fault. As to a permit, did those folks get a permit for their fences there? Since when does a wall have to have a permit?
In summary, it's a lot more complicated than just a wall.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
And as of a few months ago, the county zoning people claim authority over colors and textures - earth tones and natural-looking textures. Apparently "concrete" is not an earth tone. Makes me want to paint the thing amethyst purple and see if they come after me. Amethyst is a naturally occurring mineral; therefore, its color is an earth tone, like turquoise, jet black, ruby red, sapphire blue, etc., right?
Permits are required for fences here also.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
Soil saturation can be an issue, but walls can be designed for them as well by factoring in the additional hydrostatic pressure.
From the pictures it didn't appear the me the wall was constructed with any geogrid either. Adding a well drained backfill against the wall with weepholes could have also prevented hydrostatic buildup.
Here in Dallas any wall over 4-feet in height needs a building permit, which in turn requires engineer stamped drawings.
I have the feeling the city of San Antonio is going to be on the hook here as well. Or at least not get off scott free.
I'll bet the City issued C.O.'s (certificates of occupancy) for those houses. If the City required a permit for the wall, but then gave C.O.'s without issuing that permit, they are going to be liable as well.
There is an inferred responsibility when giving C.O.'s that city requirements have been met.
If I were those residents, I would hire the most bulldog onery lawyer I could find go after the city, developer, contractor and the inspection company all at the same time. If engineered drawings for the wall are discovered, have them peer reviewed by a separate civil engineer.
Even those away from the collapse will have their property values adversely affected, just by being in the same subdivision.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
For those working in Texas on 6'+ walls, do you use conventional walls or pile supported more often for clay soils???
Seems like everything new out here in SoCal is built on slopes and/or on landslide areas now, so piles are just so common.
Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
Travis Watson, 36, said he noticed the ground behind his 3-month-old home in the 8300 block of Valley Well had shifted down several inches Friday, and he called the home builder.
"I was told that I wasn't watering enough," he said.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
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Maybe it was properly built, but improperly designed?
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
The MSE or Modular Block walls I have been associated with included select fill or aggregate. (low to no PI stuff) along with the geo-mat or strap type anchor systems, and utilized underdrain systems when necessary.
Many have been constructed adjacent to high PI (35+)fill material. Too my knowledge none have came close too this scope of failure.
I think I get your point but, are you saying a wall could not have been designed and constructed here that would have met the needs of these site conditions?
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://www.civildevelopmentgroup.com
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
And the homeowners will likely be the biggest loser in this fiasco. The wall designer and contractor should own most of the responsibility. The developer should own a significant portion too. The building official should even own some of the responsibility too for allowing the project to move forward without the necessary paperwork, test data, etc and sign off stamp from the design engineer.
That is my take on it.
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other discussions going on multiple threads
Ryan Coggins, P.E., S.I.
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ryancoggins
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
http
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
"Known as a "gravity wall," the stone-and-mortar structure relies on its own weight to remain stable. Using less mortar could make the wall lighter — and unstable."
A gravity wall doesn't necessarily need to be mortared. A dry rubble wall has no mortar joints. I've inspected several of these in NYC that are over a century old and still stable. My objection is that someone will read the quote, see a dry rubble wall, and panic.
"Leavens designed several segments of the wall that varied in height — one segment was 25 feet tall. A cross-section of the wall looks like a slice of pie that measures 4 feet thick at its highest point and widens to a base that is 7 feet thick."
25 feet tall and 7' at the base? No way. Too narrow.
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
"The base was supposed to be buried about 7 feet underground and rest on a base of reinforced concrete."
One thing I couldn't tell from the pictures is whether there was a 7' deep passive wedge pushed up ahead of the wall, to go with the 7' depth. Is there one, or did the wall shear off at ground level, or was there a slope with a free face at the elevation of the footing (so the soil pushed ahead of the wall would just translate, rather than being lifted), or what?
RE: slope failure endangers homes in San Antonio Texas subdivision
Since Pulte bought Centex, who is going to get killed from this?
Civil Development Group, LLC
Los Angeles Civil Engineering specializing in Hillside Grading
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com
http://civildevelopmentgroup.com/blog