×
INTELLIGENT WORK FORUMS
FOR ENGINEERING PROFESSIONALS

Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm
2

Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

(OP)
Hi All,
               We have 4.5 year old Bystronic Byspeed that
cut parts today that had slots more than 50mm off where they
were meant to be!.
We have cut runs of these parts at least 20 times before
no trouble. The sheet Clamps were on and the start and end of the outside contour is in the same place so the sheet is not moving during the cut.
It is on a row of holes that should be parallel to the x axis but they were shifting about 1mm per slots until the last one in the row was over 50mm out
- somtimes the next few holes are shifted across with the same amount error and then somtimes
 the rest on the part with be back to the correct postions.the incremental shift can happen on other rows of holes
it doesn't always happen the same way sometimes the outside contour goes with it and runs off the sheet other times remainder of part is right. the gcode has been checked and is fine. the graphic of the part has the holes all straight not at an angle to the rest of the part
the error doesn't happen to every part cut and doesn't
shift exactly the same number / in same place each time
we have an error. an abort & restart from start will somtimes recut part correctly but next parts can go crazy again. I really have no confidence that this machine knows
what it is cutting. it has missed entire holes / part profiles in the past. It does not appear to monitor the path error. surely Amada, Trumph and Prima etc don't have these problems?
the x an y  reinshaw linear encoders were replaced under wanranty 8 months ago due old ones being unsuitable for the application.
What should I do I don't trust anything I have been cutting to be correct anymore.

to view picture of part go to http://www.flickr.com/photos/35190198@N05/


 

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Flickr appears to be having a problem.

Nonetheless, shouldn't you contact your manufacturer?

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

IRStuff is correct.  You should be contacting the manufacturer directly. I will try to send this post to the Vice President of Service so he can look into this.

One thing I can clearly tell you is that Amada, Trumpf, Prima, or any other OEM are far from perfect.  I can tell you that I have seen a Trumpf TCL 3050 do some strange things at a local customer in the LA Area as well as some Amadas not living up to its expectations.  If there is one thing Bystronic stands for is customer service and the quality of its products.







 

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Could you please send your contact information to the following e-mail address: nexba@yahoo.com

Thanks!

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

(OP)
In fairness to our aurthorized seller / repair agent
they are 4 hours away in another country so we only get a vist twice a year at service time.
Our agent gets us to try different things to repeat or eliminate a fault before trying replacment boards etc. hopfully this means will only only have to buy the parts
we need.
So I have been told by our agent that Bystronic Singapore have suggested trying replacing all or some of these items: cnc card,servo drive(s), x y postron ? boards. All of this is about $15-20K USD which seems a bit over the top when
it could a reinshaw linear encoder or the wiring to the cnc
cabinet?
After a full shutdown and restart it only happened twice more on nightshift and did not repeat today.
It is nice to know that other brands do odd things as well!

thanks
         aws04



 

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Is best to clean very good the linear measuring system on the X and Y axes whit a dry cotton cloth at least once a week .
 I have the same problem and  it was cleared. Sometimes after finishing the nozzle calibration it was missing the next hole or even the contour of the part. About the holes offset I was every time with a caliper just for safety.
 If you move the cutting bridge when is in service position up and down check the led if is flashing from green to red very easy (on normal operation should be a steady green)
  If this is not helping try to call the service and change the linear measuring system with the new tipe which is more precise .     
   If you have another errors Please Post Them and we share Tips and Tricks  I work only with Bystronic machines (Bystronic 4400w,BYSPEED 5200W ARC)

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Is there no way to double check the program in the machine after it does the odd thing?

I would go with the cnc board first, since your problem is intermittent, but repeatable, which suggests a digital logic problem.

TTFN

FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

(OP)
We already have new type of linear measuring system on our
machine - it was replaced about 6 months ago free of charge - I was instructed not to try cleaning it as per the old system which needed it done all the time. I was not aware of any "okay" green leds lights on the new system to check operation. It would be hard to say what part of the system was confused but I think it was as irstuff says more
likley the cnc card error of some type. We used to get a sort of timming error on high speed rapid cutting where it would miss cutting entre holes or parts of holes with the cut starting and stopping around the contour somtimes missing 6 or 7 holes in a row and would carry on unaware it even had problem. When the machine was doing this every part
it cut was missing different holes or parts of contours - no 2 faulty parts were the same. it took this fault about 2 years to appear on enough machines to be acknowleged and a fix in form of cnc software upgrade which is meant to stop this. It is so intermittent it is hard to know what the trigger is that causes these type of faults and if they have really have been fixed.
 

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Sorry the green/red led was on the old tip of linear measuring system I misunderstood about your upgrading.
 At the end of last year the bystronic technician upgrade the lens failure kit and the linear measuring system and we had no problem since then.
  The problem could be in the CNC rack?. Hope they find the problem.      

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Can you please submit your contact info to the e-mail address above.  I spoke to the Vice President of Service here and the US and he would like to direct this to the proper person.   

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

(OP)
We got quoted about $3500 USD to buy the lens failure kit.
(with over the phone help for install)
I am interested to know how well in how well it works  - didn't know if we should get that or not. If it works well it would save a lot down time when a lens go unexpectedly.  

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm


Whit lens failure kit you save a lot of down time. Plus is more safe  for the optics . When I have a reflecting beam the machine stops and I clear the alarm I check the lens and I start cutting. I cut thick SS (6,8,10,12) and aluminium up to 5 mm and the upgrade was very good for us. Thanks  

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

Please could you tell me the cnc version being used.
Byvision
Main screen info button.

Also please tell me whether the pattern shift is in X or Y axis. Does it get progressivly worse.
Has the x and y axis screw tensions been checked.

do you produce out of round holes. ?

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

(OP)
Hi There,
         Our controller is the one before byvision
mmc p6013
cnc p6141 cpp

the the slots should have been parallel in a row along the x axis but they were shifting increcmentaly about 1mm
in y on each slot, sometimes the accumulated shift of about 50mm would make all other holes after this out by this accumulated amount the machine would sometime revert back
to putting the holes back in the correct locations although
the error would appear and disappear randomly throughout
the part. we never did find out what causes it. but it doesn't happen often and a power down and restart fixes it
It appears this model of machine has no monitoring of path error or checking to know that it is cutting what is in the gcode file. We still run the same program and it has been cutting the parts corectly to date

 

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

(OP)
Hi There,
          To answer your other questions cut holes are cutting round and we have never checked the leadscrew tensions
 

RE: Bystronic cutting Parts with hole postions off by 50mm

ok

Possibly the machine rquires a new Impgen card. This is responsable for instructing the poscon cards where and how fast to psition the axis. Poscon could be faulty as well.

If these fail the other soulution is a software update.

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Resources

Low-Volume Rapid Injection Molding With 3D Printed Molds
Learn methods and guidelines for using stereolithography (SLA) 3D printed molds in the injection molding process to lower costs and lead time. Discover how this hybrid manufacturing process enables on-demand mold fabrication to quickly produce small batches of thermoplastic parts. Download Now
Design for Additive Manufacturing (DfAM)
Examine how the principles of DfAM upend many of the long-standing rules around manufacturability - allowing engineers and designers to place a part’s function at the center of their design considerations. Download Now
Taking Control of Engineering Documents
This ebook covers tips for creating and managing workflows, security best practices and protection of intellectual property, Cloud vs. on-premise software solutions, CAD file management, compliance, and more. Download Now

Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close