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Drafting History

Drafting History

Drafting History

(OP)
Just an interesting look back on how they did things different and the same as we do today.  This survey from 1918 shows answers to questions about drafting from various sources.

CODE

http://www.flyupload.com/?fid=736837

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Business Page   http://mech.e.tripod.com
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Motorradtraum....www.tailofthedragon.com

RE: Drafting History

I suggest you use a less aggressive file site than that one, it opened at least 2 windows and a couple of failed popups before I cancelled.

 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Drafting History

I got an alert from the company IT advising me I had violated the acceptable computer use policy.

Oops.

RE: Drafting History

Tripod.com is a free web space domain w/ lots of popups.  It's banned in many workplaces.

RE: Drafting History

Just use the free attachment upload through engineering.com and this website.

--Scott

http://wertel.eng.pro

RE: Drafting History

(OP)
Cool

I suggest you try again.  It is working fine.  

The file isn't on tripod and it isn't a website that requires banning, maybe youre thinking of myspace.

==========================================
Business Page   http://mech.e.tripod.com
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Motorradtraum....www.tailofthedragon.com

RE: Drafting History

Having navigated thru the popups, and other weird stuff  on your site, it would appear that the practices then, were not a lot different to the 1960s when I started drafting.
 At that time we were still tracing onto cloth with ink and using blueprints. The 4H pencil was the favorite although clutch pencils were becoming more popular, and a newcomer on the scene, the Pentel pencil, with a constant diameter lead was making inroads.
 Cad drafting and pen plotters were still in the future.
The good old days. I  don't miss them
B.E.

RE: Drafting History

Ha

The guys in the office I work in used to draw the production drawings for cars on aluminium sheet with scalpels.

 

Cheers

Greg Locock

SIG:Please see FAQ731-376: Eng-Tips.com Forum Policies for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips.

RE: Drafting History

Pressed, I couldn't open it either from work.

Like Swertel said maybe use the Engineering.com option.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Drafting History

(OP)
berkshire

Constant diameter lead has got to be allot better than the point for drafting.  It has been a decade or so since I have seen a mechanical pen plotter.  Last one I saw used hpgl file and floppy drive.

I think the paper addresses conventions pretty well and it would be interesting to know the origin of the ones that were minorities.

==========================================
Business Page   http://mech.e.tripod.com
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Motorradtraum....www.tailofthedragon.com

RE: Drafting History

Pressed
Constant point was a lot better and a stack of those pencils in different diameters eventually replaced clutch pencils and wooden pencils, except those used by some die-hards who swore by their chisel points.
 The mechanical pen plotters came and went, replaced by ink jet plotters and later laser-printers
 I still have a Draft Pro EXL that gets fired up when somebody wants that pen plotter look. If not it's done on the ink jet.

 As you say the conventions were addressed well. and as I said, were not very different to the 1960s some 40 odd years later.
B.E.

RE: Drafting History

In the late 1960's when we were using clutch pencils with 2mm leads that needed sharpening (into chisel points) a colleague visited Canada and came back with what was probably a fore-runner of the small diameter leaded clutch pencils; this particular clutch pencil used long, flat replacable leads i.e it gave a constant chisel point. The problem he encountered was that here in the UK replacement leads were unobtainable and when he ran out of leads the pencil holder was useless. I have never seen any of these pencils since. Does anyone know anything about them?

RE: Drafting History

(OP)
geoffthehammer

CODE

http://www.leadholder.com/lh-draft-fc-9600.html

Do any of these look familiar?

A patent search would probably hold more information about these older items.

==========================================
Business Page   http://mech.e.tripod.com
------------------------------------------
Motorradtraum....www.tailofthedragon.com

RE: Drafting History

Pressed
Yes those are the pencils my colleagure had.

I can't open your attachment either which is a pity because I would like to compare things with a drawing I was given by a business contact some years ago. This drawing (of a rail mounted steam crane assembly) is ink on white paper with a rag backing and dates to 1905. The detail is astonishing - even the gears (bevel and spur) are actually drawn as if you were looking at them, i.e. the side view of each and every tooth is drawin in perfect detail. It must have taken a mind boggling length of time.

RE: Drafting History

(OP)
geoffthehammer

Shoot me an email and I will get you a copy of that survey.

==========================================
Business Page   http://mech.e.tripod.com
------------------------------------------
Motorradtraum....www.tailofthedragon.com

RE: Drafting History

geoff;  Any chance you'd be willing to scan and post that drawing?  I love seeing the older work...

I have some old bridge and truss drawings from late 1880s through 1920s back home in Canada.  Similiarly amazing in their level of detail; many of them with the grain in the wood members drawn very realistically!

The amount of tips, tricks and just all round drafting knowledge that we must have lost through the advent of computers is hard to grasp!

B.Eng (Carleton)
Working in New Zealand, thinking of my snow covered home...

RE: Drafting History

Youngstructural

OK, I'll scan a couple of views from the drawing - probably this weekend as I won't have time before.

RE: Drafting History

draftsmans personal style has also substantially been lost.  Any random set of CAD drawings now greatly resemble any other from different people and different companies.

Lettering, occasional calligraphic thick-thin line weights, hatch-shading, even balanced layout within the paper has largely disappeared.

I don't miss being knocked out by ammonia clouds upon unrolling a set of blueprint copies.  I always hated sepia copies where you'd erase the one or two differences and pencil in the unique changes, they always looked cheap to me.

My drafting teacher, an old retired engineer, took our college's first CAD course with us.  He wanted to keep up with the times, he said.  It was humerous, in the morning he'd have us do arrays of tangent circles, lines of notes, even isometric projections using horizon line, and in the afternoon he'd be at the back of the computer class asking the same questions we did.  He was smart enough to say this would obsolete the entire profession of drafting.

RE: Drafting History

"draftsmans personal style has also substantially been lost.  Any random set of CAD drawings now greatly resemble any other from different people and different companies."

I disagree, sure there's not the range of variation but there is still room for style.  My style is a nice clear unambiguos well layed out drawing...  not quite as nice as some of the old hand done drawings but perfectly presentable and using a nice font like arial.

The style of most people around here, and from a lot of other places based on vendor drawings/data sheets I see is just to throw views and dimensions down and hope for the best (usually with iso font that looks @%#$%@$ IMHO).

"He was smart enough to say this would obsolete the entire profession of drafting. "

No, and people thinking this has caused all kinds of problems.  Sure you don't know how to use descriptive geometry, revise linen drawings, erase with precision, get just the right angle on your pencil lead...  However laying out a drawing, making sure it's complete, unambiguous, easy to read... still apply in 2D CAD.  Heck some of the disciplines kind of translate to modelling.

Lack of knowledge, discipline, pride in their work etc. has led to crappy drawings around here which causes production all kinds of problems.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Drafting History

Amen, KENAT.  Couldn't have said it any better myself.

Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare. - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Drafting History

Thanks, feels good to get a rant on occasionally (helps relieve that blood pressure issue you mentioned elsewhere ewh winky smile)

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Drafting History

Obviously not as impressive as it was done on CAD but on the lines of drawings with extensive, perhaps excessive detail..

I'm doing some data transfer for a new product and just saw a drawing for a cable from one of the engineers.

He's created a sectioned assy model, showing the individual strands of the coax type shielding.  The view in the drawing is then beautifully shaded etc!  This when half our cables are just 2D representations with a cube (representing connectors) on each end of a straight 'cable' with all the detail in the parts list & pin table.

Don't get me wrong, this is a fairly important cable but the equivalent cables on other products have no where near this detail.  Not sure how well it'll come through but heres a partially obscured jpeg of it to give some idea.

KENAT, probably the least qualified checker you'll ever meet...

RE: Drafting History

Kenat ranted: "Sure you don't know how to use descriptive geometry..."

Well, no, but it can sure help.  I can lay out a complex pipe joint and get the ellipse dimensions, or a paper pattern for the shop, more quickly using descriptive geometry and 2D cad than firing up the pathetically slow seat of Inventor I have...

And a freshie the boss hired for the "other side" of my company was having fits the other day, trying to get a view that would show a particular detail (aka auxilliary projection).  I had to show him how he could define the rotation plane for the view...using 2D sketch techniques...he thought I was some kinda wizard.

Style.  Nice word.  Clean, well-laid out drawings are a good goal, and I try to aspire to them.  It helps to do so, if you are a self-checking engineer like most of us have to be these days.  Keeping the print readable helps you when you are double-checking to see if you missed any dimensions, datum descriptors, tolerances...  Someday, when I'm done here, I may have to post a print that another engineer developed and I inherited.  Dimensions in alternating font sizes, overlapping in places, leaders and dimensions lines pointing to ambiguous areas of the part, no detail views, all crammed into a single A-size sheet.  The part caused our shop trouble for years, until I managed to spot the tolerance stack that made it operate improperly in some combinations...but that didn't happen until I redrew the whole thing.

RE: Drafting History

Youngstructural
Here are a couple of views from the 1905 Steam Crane drawing. As you can see after over a hundred years its a bit faded, dirty and generally suffered. However some of the brown tint is from my scanner. I have scanned it at fairly low resolution which doesn't do it justice but enjoy.
I was given the drawing, I guess, in the early 1980's by the Managing Director of a foundry. The foundry was closing down (as many did in the UK at that time due to more stringent Health & Safety regs. They had found a whole pile of such drawings dating from when that company apparently made cranes. The Director took the drawings to the local museum who picked out a few and told him to burn the rest. It thought it a shame so he handed a few round to his acquaintances and customers. I he used to visit my local pub on a regular basis I had got to know him and so I got one of the drawings.

RE: Drafting History

Looking at drawings like those makes me actually miss board work.

Believe it if you need it or leave it if you dare. - Robert Hunter
 

RE: Drafting History

Smithsonian has nice gallery of early American designs and inventions drawings.  Some are sketches, patent drawings, working drawings, others are parts and assembly drafting: steam generator, watch assembly.  My favourite may be the ultra simple yet still beautiful railroad spike.

http://www.sil.si.edu/exhibitions/doodles/cf/working.cfm

RE: Drafting History

Can anyone repost the document through a service that doesn't have a ton of popups?

-Dustin
Professional Engineer
Certified SolidWorks Professional

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