Contact US

Log In

Come Join Us!

Are you an
Engineering professional?
Join Eng-Tips Forums!
  • Talk With Other Members
  • Be Notified Of Responses
    To Your Posts
  • Keyword Search
  • One-Click Access To Your
    Favorite Forums
  • Automated Signatures
    On Your Posts
  • Best Of All, It's Free!

*Eng-Tips's functionality depends on members receiving e-mail. By joining you are opting in to receive e-mail.

Posting Guidelines

Promoting, selling, recruiting, coursework and thesis posting is forbidden.

Students Click Here

Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification

Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification

Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification

I asked this is question under the mechanical code issues forum.  I appreciate the one response I got; however,I was hoping for some more input.

 We often butter P1, P4, P5A and P5B base materials when welding them to P8 material to avoid PWHT (of the final joint) of the P8 material.  When the design temperature is significantly high, we use Inconel to butter, then heat treat, and then use Inconel filler for the final joint.  We currently have processes qualified for buttering with SMAW, heat treating, and completing the joint with GTAW & SMAW. We are looking at qualifying some new procedures that use FCAW or SAW to complete the joint after the buttered material has been heat treated.  That is, we would use SMAW to butter (with inconel), send to heat treat, run a tig inconel root pass and use SAW (inconel) to complete the joint.

Paragraph QW-283 of Section IX deals with buttering.  All buttering thicknesses are or will be 3/16" or greater.  The QA department believes that we can, under QW-283.4(b), qualify a new procedure for the SAW using Inconel plate for the test coupon which matches our Inconel filler, and subsequently qualify all P1-P8, P4-P8, P5A-P8, and P5B-P8 welds at the same time without having to qualify procedures for each of these different base metals.  This SAW procedure would be used in conjuction with the inconel SMAW and GTAW procedures we already have.  The logic is, that we already have individual "buttering" procedures for P1-P8, P4-P8, P5A-P8, and P5B-P8 welds.  Once the P1, P4, and P5 material has been buttered, heat treated, and root pass with these procedures, we can use a single SAW procedure no matter what the original base metal was, because it is now effectively inconel we are joining to the P8.

I interpret paragraph QW-283.4 as stating that if "an essential variable is changed in the portion of the weld to be made after buttering" a new qualification can be made by using inconel plate that matches the filler metal.  However, because changing the base metal is an essential variable in the portion of the weld prior to buttering, this is not applicable.  Therefore, we would have to qualify a different procedure for each different base metal.  And, as the one response I received to this question earlier pointed out, we don't currently have a procedure for welding on the SAW with inconel. Also, our shop will be doing all of the welding.

I am not a Section IX expert, and the QA department has more experience here than I do.  But, their interpretation doesn't seem quite right to me. Who is right?  Any Section IX welding experts out there?  

RE: Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification

The QA department would appear to be correct in their interpretation.  The Inconel plate will both substitute for the buttered member (and its underlying substrate material) and serve as the parent material for the other side of the joint.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

RE: Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification

This has been answered in the Welding Forum.  Suggest you look there.

RE: Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification

Correction have a look in the ASME Mechanical section.

RE: Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification


The QA department would appear to be correct in their interpretation.

The QA department is incorrect of their interpretation in  of QW-283.4 (b).

RE: Section XI and "buttering" procedure qualification

Having reread and drummed the fact that the other side of the joint is a P8 material and not a P43 into my short term memory, I would agree that it is incorrect of the QA department.  My apologies to FluidicTech for further confusing the issue.

Steve Jones
Materials & Corrosion Engineer

Red Flag This Post

Please let us know here why this post is inappropriate. Reasons such as off-topic, duplicates, flames, illegal, vulgar, or students posting their homework.

Red Flag Submitted

Thank you for helping keep Eng-Tips Forums free from inappropriate posts.
The Eng-Tips staff will check this out and take appropriate action.

Reply To This Thread

Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.

Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members! Already a Member? Login


Close Box

Join Eng-Tips® Today!

Join your peers on the Internet's largest technical engineering professional community.
It's easy to join and it's free.

Here's Why Members Love Eng-Tips Forums:

Register now while it's still free!

Already a member? Close this window and log in.

Join Us             Close