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Question Regarding International Engineering Services
3

Question Regarding International Engineering Services

Question Regarding International Engineering Services

(OP)
Question to all those who's businesses operate internationally:

How do firms that provide engineering services operate internationally? Is a hired PE/Chartered Engineer always necessary. What are the means criteria for achieving waiver or legal means of providing engineering services?
Here in the US, we can grandfather PE licenses or be licensed in multiple states. I know in the EU countries there is EUIng. status provides some reciprocity.
But how can someone operate on both sides of the pond?
How have any business owners in this site dealt with such legal issues?

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

You need licensed people wherever you run engineering business, but you can deal with this in several ways depending on which kind of relationship you have with your client.

Company I work for is fully client-oriented, so there are different contracts with different clients.

If you have project management or construction management contract, you often develop contractual relationship with other parties in project (tech. supervision/design) - it can be subcontract or consultancy contract. If you are in charge for supervision then you need licensed staff in your company, but again you can have foreign technical manager, coordinator or consultant.

In any case you can develop value for a client an have grip of every important aspect of the project without interfering with licensed people's independency. It can be arranged through regular value management workshop; project technical coordination; design management particulary oriented to documents submission schedule, design completness reviews, and inter-trade coordination.

The most important principle is that expirienced engineers need to sit and dicuss important issues all the time. Who will make formal decision and put a stamp is not a crtical item after professional discussion is undertaken and results are achieved. Partial credits go to everybody involved, and main point is that your company is in charge for the whole process and overall project delivery will be the most important measure of success.

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

(OP)
Thanks Drazen!

Very interesting and informative response. Since there is a colaboration in the design process, how does that way-in with liability internationally? Does the PE/Chartered Engineer carry the liability or is that also shared with the company and client?

I noticed from your profile that you are in Croatia, dealing with international licensure and liability issues must be common.

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

Chartered Engineer allways carry main personal liability for final technical decisions in matters related to law stipulations, no doubt about that.

International engineering services company do not carry direct liability, but I think the main stories are related to complex technical decisions, inter-trade and overall solvings. If chartered engineer has to put stamp on something that involves many different data, relates to other's decsisions, then formalized procedure of disseminating and discussing data is crucial and chartered engineer can refer to it when talking about liability.

I beleive that is main point with international engineering services: you never interfere with PE's in basic, straightforward solutions and decisions.
The main field where you can find your usefulness are complex projects with  many inter-relations of different parties in technical and organizational respect.
You can also offer new solutions on "straightforward" level, and cooperate with chartered guy through local validation of such practice.
And, of course, you can do a lot "in between", in many aspects of project and technical decisions that are not strictly stipulated (for instance no regulation will prescribe how will you share the capacity among boilers in planning phase to achieve the best cost-effective soulution during run of industrial plant, and that is much more important to your client then decision betwwen two possible options of mandatory safety rampon gas installation).

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

I am currently working on a design build proposal for Kabul. This work will be for NATO forces in the area.

The requirement in the contract is that the work be certified by an engineer from any NATO country qualified and licensed to do so in their home country.

Remember that in a lot of the third world there is no requirement for professional engineering status for anything so it is up to you as a responsible engineer to ensure that the people working on your projects have some formal qualification and competency.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

My employer is an engineering subcontractor to an international procurement firm. Our client typically does 65% of the engineering themselves using a variety of technical staff (majority non-PE). They then give all their info to us and we draft their designs up, do the remaining 35% of the engineering and PE stamp all of it. This process is techically illegal but the client is all powerful and knows that there are a lot of struggling firms out there willing to compromise their ethics to stay afloat. The procurement firm's client is a USA nationwide entity that doesn't want to get involved in procuring the services of numerous local engineers & contractors and then having to manage them all.

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

(OP)
EddyC:

How is this illegal, if your firm carries the liability for supervizing and checking the work, what legal difference does that make? Can't your firm refuse to stamp the work,if there is a question in practices or calculations?

Does the firm/individual thas has a PE have to be the main contractor?

thanks again

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

(OP)
RDK
Is this work that will be for NATO forces in the area, a fromal requirement for international projects by NATO and other international bodies.

Is it similar to the Eur.Ing. If I'm not mistaken the EU has EUIng license for its member states, which appears in many ways to be more integrated than the US PE interstate system.

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

ELEControl,

The problem with the situation that I mentioned is that 65% of the engineering is being done by unlicensed engineers who are NOT under the supervision of PEs. Many, if not most, states prohibit review & PE stamping of engineering work done by individuals/entities that are not part of your company.

RE: Question Regarding International Engineering Services

ELEcontrol3e

Yes this work is for NATO. The SOW reads that any qualified engineer from any NATO country can assume the responsibility. That would be a P.Eng, a PE or its equal in the European countries of NATO.

Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
www.kitsonengineering.com

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