Y14.5 Drafting 1

[ewh]

Y14.5 lays out some basic drafting guidelines that are usually ignored (even by the standard itself) and somehow don't get the same attention as the GD&T aspect of the standard (understandable since the standards title is Dimensioning and Tolerancing, not Drafting).
Drawings here are mostly peer reviewed as a check, but a new drawing review approval is now required and, while their GD&T understanding is good (due to the plentiful offering of training), there seems to be a problem familiarizing younger (and some older) engineers here with the basics of good drawing practices, from view projection issues to Y14.5 Fundamental Rules.
Are there any on-line or in-person (PNW) training classes covering general drafting rules in ASME (not just Y14.5)?
TIA!

 

[3DDave]

3D solids software should manage all the view projection problems.

Other than that having a strong and capable check group is the best answer. They will have ensured existing drawings are up to standard and rebuff any drawings that are not, giving the newbies or new hires both a lot of examples and immediate feedback.

Without this point of control I don't see how a course will help a great deal. People tend to take away different amounts of information which means they will also take away the feeling they know something for sure that others will not, creating conflicts that have no point of resolution.

Have a checker and then one has a point of resolution. Any problems with the checker becomes a single place to fix the problem.

 

[Belanger]

Studying for the Y14.5 certification exam would be an excellent way to learn or review some of those topics. People think that the test is all about GD&T, but the exam covers those early chapters where some of the things you're talking about are detailed. (Granted, it's based on the older 2009 standard...)

 

[CheckerHater]

3D solids software should manage all the view projection problems. (3DDave)

I opened my software. Which one to chose?

 

[greenimi]

I opened my software. Which one to chose?
View attachment 4484

ISO or ASME?

 

[3DDave]

I opened my software. Which one to chose?
View attachment 4484

The one your group admin locked in the software setup.

 

[greenimi]

I know the OP was asking about ASME, but I think CH asked a more general question......allegedly

 

[ewh]

Thanks,
This has been basically a "free-range" group, where engineering documentation such as drawings only had to meet the minimum for manufacturing and purchasing to make or procure the parts necessary to complete the finished good. It is maturing and is now to a point where the drawings will be checked to be per Y14.5 (instead of only stating it on the drawing format), inferring the other Y14 drawing standards.
While getting Y15.4 certification would indeed help, it wouldn't cover such topics as correct view projections, revisions, formats, etc. covered by the other separate standards, and this is where it seems the most help is needed. Keep in mind there are no company standards covering this, only a stated following of Y14.5.

3D D - you're preaching to the choir ;-)

edit: the projection issue is more how you present the views. some of the drawings seem like a properly projected 4 or five view drawing until you notice that the views were handled like cards dealt out with no relation to each other and no identifying info, other than being of the same part. They understand the symbol, but sometimes the link between that and what they want to show as an engineer is missing.

 

[greenimi]

By the way, I've never seen an ASME drawing in first angle projection.....BUT that does not mean those drawings are NOT there in the real world.

 

[CheckerHater]

It may or may or may not be locked by admin. Some companies go both ways.

Someone has to be thought what this means. As well as many other things.

 

[CheckerHater]

Greenimi,
Yes, indeed. I saw one not so long ago. Cannot post it because of "proprietary" thing.

 

[ewh]

I've seen older ones here where the section views are first angle on third angle drawings

 

[3DDave]

I was suggesting it is cheaper to lock it by an admin then send everyone off to training. Give the admin all the standards and let them figure out drawing formats and view projection standards; a large percentage of the bullsh*tery is people f'n with fonts and formats.

Not that depending solely on admins is always a good thing - I had an admin locking down things to comply with the 1972 or so drawing standards when Calcomp plotters roamed the land and the admin made all lines 0.005 inches wide for PDF output and demanded that all arrowheads be unfilled; even though no one uses pen plotters to print PDFs and he was thinking, I don't know what. F' that guy.

This happened after the company fired the checkers. Not that I am bitter.

Simply - the main thing people generally want is a consistent drawing package and the best way to have a consistent drawing package is to have a single person doing the reviews and a single person controlling configuration of formats and such. Otherwise it's like sending cats to obedience training. At best they learn where the food bowl is and where the litter box is and the rest of the time they are trying to shove glass items from top shelves.

ewh - eeeewww. Doesn't that mean they just put the section arrows facing the wrong way? What I don't get about ISO drawings is that main projections are 1st angle and section views are all 3rd. I have seen people slide views around where they shouldn't be, but a rap on the knuckles makes a better lesson than a scatter of Powerpoint in a class.

 

[ewh]

Formats are fixed and not a problem. Thankfully we don't have to deal with pen widths anymore.
I think they relocate the section views after creation - the current software wouldn't allow their creation otherwise (but these were created in a different software and translated over a decade ago).
I was hoping to find some basic to intermediate drafting lessons to help fill this gap, as I don't think a dedicated checker is in the cards.

 

[3DDave]

If you want training, have you considered collars? Every time you find an error you press the button.

 

[jassco]

I don't understand this statement below:

" the current software wouldn't allow their creation otherwise "

 

[ewh]

The software (NX) requires a parent view to create a section view, and that view orientation is based on its placement on the drawing. It's not difficult to place a section view in the orientation you want then move it.

 

[greenimi]

Regarding the OP initial question I think ASME has drafting online classes

GD&T Drawing Interpretation - ASME

Understand basic mechanical two-dimensional engineering drawings, drawing elements, part and section views, dimensions, tolerances, finish and welding symbols.

www.asme.org

Drawing Interpretation (GD&T)​

Understand basic mechanical two-dimensional engineering drawings, drawing elements, part and section views, dimensions, tolerances, finish and welding symbols.


This Self Study course is available on ASME’s Learning Hub, our online learning platform. It covers the majority of information required to understand basic mechanical two-dimensional engineering drawings. Topics covered are:

• Basic drawing elements (formats, title block, parts list, revision block, etc.)
• Part views (multiview, auxiliary, and isometric)
• Section views
• General dimensions
• Tolerances
• Finish and welding symbols.

The course consists of eleven modules, each with a quiz; most also include drawing exercises and supplementary information. Learners will receive downloadable job aids and reference material such as measurement plans, dimensioning symbols and fundamental rules, and real-world part and assembly drawings.

By participating in the class, you will learn how to successfully:

• Describe the fundamentals of drawing interpretation
• Identify drawing elements, including part views and sections
• Describe general dimensions and tolerances
• Explain how to present surface texture, fasteners and welding

Who should attend:
Beginning designers, drafters, quality, procurement, tooling, production, manufacturing and shop personnel; more advanced designers, and those involved with tooling, production, inspection, routing in the shop; others involved with purchasing, costing and management; vendors and suppliers.


Module 1 – Drawing Interpretation Introduction

• Introduction
• Drawing Production
• Drawing Standards
• Product Realization
• Design
• Tooling/Production
• Inspection
• Drawing Types
• Drawing Life Cycle
• Quiz 1 – Introduction

Module 2 – Drawing Layout

• Drawing Layout
• Title Blocks
• Revision Block
• Parts List
• Notes
• Conclusion
• Quiz 2 – Drawing Layout

Module 3 – Orthographic Projection

• View Projection
• Surface Types
• Line Types
• Multiview Drawing
• Visualization
• Conclusion
• Quiz 3 – Part Views
• Module 3 Drawing Exercises – Part Views

Module 4 – Auxiliary Views

• Auxiliary Views
• Successive Auxiliary Views
• Partial Views
• Quiz 4 – Auxiliary Views
• Module 4 Drawing Exercises – Auxiliary Views

Module 5 – Pictorial Views

• Pictorial Views
• Axonometric Projection
• Oblique Projection
• Conclusion
• Quiz 5 – Isometric and Oblique Views
• Module 5 Drawing Exercises – Iso & Oblique

Module 6 – Section Views

• Introduction
• Section Line Patterns
• Section Types
• Conventional Practices
• Conclusion
• Quiz 6 – Section Views
• Module 6 Drawing Exercises – Sections

Module 7 – General Dimensioning

• Dimensioning Introduction
• Feature Types
• Dimension Elements
• Dimension Construction
• General Dimensions
• Conclusion
• Quiz 7 – General Dimensions
• Module 7 Drawing Exercises – General Dimensioning

Module 8 – Tolerances

• Tolerancing Introduction
• Tolerance Expression
• Terminology
• Limits of size
• Envelope Principle
• Tolerance Allocation
• Conclusion
• Quiz 8 – Tolerances
• Module 8 Drawing Exercises – Tolerancing

Module 9 – Surface Texture

• Introduction
• Surface Texture Symbols and Characteristics
• Examples
• Past Practices
• New Symbol
• Quiz 9 – Surface Texture
• Module 9 Drawing Exercises - Surface Texture

Module 10 – Fasteners

• Introduction
• Thread Characteristics
• Thread Notes
• Thread Drawing Appearance
• Pipe Threads
• Thread Uses
• Washers
• Nuts
• Other Threaded Fastener Factors
• Keys
• Splines, Gears and Serrations
• Pins
• Rivets
• Retaining Rings
• Springs
• Cams
• Conclusion
• Quiz 10 – Fasteners
• Module 10 Drawing Exercises – Thread Notation

Module 11 – Welding

• Introduction
• Examples
• Quiz 11 – Welding

Appendices

• Appendix A - H213 Standards
• Appendix B - Measurement Plan
• Appendix C - Auxiliary Views
• Appendix D - Dimensioning Symbols
• Appendix E - Dimensioning Rules
• Appendix F - Example Drawings
• Appendix G - Fasteners Standards

 

[ewh]

Thanks for digging that up, greenimi!
That's more like what they need.

 

[3DDave]

It looks like a good start. Put in an order for the collars, just to be sure. Send 5 people to a course and get 5 different opinions on what they saw.

Also, it is very difficult to teach style. On the board I saw old farts who could pack a couple hundred dimensions onto a D size drawing, never a moment of hesitation. I also saw newbies on CAD who would sprawl the same info across two J-size sheets and still manage to f' something up.