Worth of Mgmt Degree vs MS in Engineering 8

[Indyneer]

I will be graduating soon with my bachelor's in engineering technology. I have read, and heard, alot of comments from engineers who are frustrated by a lack of upward mobility and job security. I have been thinking of continuing my education on a part time basis after I get my BS and find work as an engineer. More specifically, I've been thinking about pursuing a management related degree to help me stay out of the "rut" that so many engineers seem to get stuck in.

I have several choices:
1. Bachelor of Science in Organizational Leadership and
Supervision
2. A general MBA from a good school
3. A generic "MS" degree focused in engineering
4. A Master's in Technology degree

I don't want to move away from the technical aspects, but 10 years from now I'd like to be more toward the management/business side of things too. I am interested in managing projects, but not people.

Any suggestions as to which of these degrees would be best for putting me on a faster track in this direction?

 

[RDK]

Managing projects IS managing people.

Any degree is not about the knowledge that you gain. Anyone can look up the elastic modulus of steel. Education is about training your mind. You train tour mind to think like an engineer in engineering school. In management school you will train your mind to think like a manager. (Yes they do sometimes think. LOL )

Management is all about decision-making. In engineering you are taught to make decisions based on a strictly logical thought process. Almost everything is of an if-then-else type of construct. A management degree will cause you to start thinking outside the engineering box. You will learn new ways of approaching the people part of the equation. It’s not a difficult evolution for an engineer. (The arts types will however have a LOT off trouble with the logical math based part of management. It’s always a good laugh to give them a HP calculator with RPN and watch them look for the equal key. [ROFL] )

In a business school, in addition to learning some mathematical based decision constructs such as linear programming, scheduling etc. you will be taught to think more like a manager. That is you will consider the human portion of the equation and the fact that not all people will react to the same inputs in the same way.

We called it the agricultural vs. the engineering model. In the agricultural model you plant a seed, give it a warm moist place to grow and sometimes it grows sometimes not. In the engineering model you subject a piece of steel to some bending stresses and it reacts in predictable ways.

If you want to advance in a strict technical manner then take an advanced technical degree. If you want to manage projects, including the people involved in them, then take a management degree.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng

Construction Project Management
From conception to completion

http://www.kitsonengineering.com

 

[Haf]

Indyneer,

As usual, RDK gave some solid advice. And, as usual, I would like to add my $0.02.

I agree that managing projects is managing people. If you are managing engineering projects that other people are taking leadership of, then, by default, you are managing those people. The people that think they can manage projects without managing people are the ones that make the worst managers. On the flip side, if you are the only one working on an engineering project (or the one with leadership over it), then, by default, you are doing technical work. The kicker is, even if you are doing technical work, you will probably still have to "manage" the people you work with to some degree, even if your title doesn't have "manager" in it. But enough about that.

I would like to address a few of your assertions at the beginning of your question. You mentioned that many of the engineers you have talked with complain of a lack of upward mobility and job security. Part of this may have to do with the particular situation they are in. I work for a company that offers two distinct career options: one is the technical path and one is the managerial path. There is a "corporate ladder" in both cases, and you won't necessarily get hurt monetarily if you take the technical path (some technical people here make more than their managers). Of course, if you start moving up to very high positions in management (which are few and far between) the monetary gap begins to widen. This "dual path" is becoming more and more popular as companies begin to realize that to keep good people doing technical work, there has to be an incentive. I would focus on companies that offer a dual path.

Second, getting an MBA and becoming a manager DOES NOT guarantee job security. In fact, it can do quite the opposite. The current trend among companies that do technical work, including engineering, is focused on "lean management." Believe me, there are plenty of people in middle management at many of the large technical coorporations that are pretty nervous right now.

Lastly, I'd like to make a few observations. Please don't misconstrue these as personal attacks. As I look at your list of options, a couple of things stand out to me. I find it interesting that you mentioned a "general" MBA or a "generic" MS. To me, this implies that you don't know what you want to do, or that you are very afraid of any specialization (your "Engineering Technology" degree also supports this). To be of value to your company (and therefore to secure upward mobility and job security), it should be clear exactly what you contribute to that company. The more general and generic your background is, the harder it is to be in a position where your contribution is significant and well understood. Of course, you do have to avoid over-specialization, as this is a common way to get "in a rut." The trick is to find something in-between.

To me, it sounds like you want to go to grad school to add a suffix or two to your name, and to hope job security and advancement come along with those suffixes. The truth is, you go to grad school because of a genuine interest in a particular area or a particular kind of work, and because that degree will enable you to pursue future work in that particular area. The degree itself, however, does not "entitle" you to anything.

If you would like to do technical work for the next 10 or so years, I would suggest working towards an MS in a particular field. You may want to work for a while before you decide what that field is (after working for a while, you may even decide that you don't want/need the MS to do the technical work you are interested in). If you're intent on being a manager, demonstrate to you bosses that you are capable of such a job, and pursue on-the-job training and formal training that your company might offer. If you think it's necessary, pursue an MBA, but I would wait a few years. Most good MBA schools require a few years of professional experience before admittance anyway.

In short, make your decision a dynamic and feedback-oriented decision. To be frank, your attitude at this point stikes me as a little immature. It might be in your best interest to get some more experience.

Good luck!

Haf

 

[jproj]

Indyneer:

I graduated roughly 2 years ago and have just started my masters degree in environmental engineering. I thought my experience might shed some light on your dilemma.

Currently, I am working full time and taking one class (at night). The class is a project management class. To be honest, I should not have taken this class. I have no project management experience and do not totally understand the material taught in the class. I understand all the concepts, but since I am working in a SMALL engineering firm, I really have no way to relate to the examples given in class.

I believe you would have the same experience going straight from your BS into a masters program. Don't misunderstand, me... I am doing well in my class and have no doubt that you might do well in a masters program. You just need work experience before you can fully appreciate (and fully learn / apply) the concepts taught in a masters program.

Regarding the lack of upward mobility and job security, I really wouldn't worry about it. Upward mobility is based on YOUR work ethic and the company you are with. A good company will recognize a hard worker and reward them with job security and pay raises. At the same time, one of the most profitable things you can do is to change companies every so often. Besides that, if you feel like you're in a rut, go back to school and acquire the needed tools for advancement. By then you'll know what you want to specialize in and you'll have the experience required to fully understand the material.

Personally, I believe that finding a job should be your first priority. I would take Haf's advice and search for a company with the multiple career path option. This will give you the freedom to "test the waters" and find out if like the technical or business side better. After three or four years, evaluate yourself and your career options and make a decision then.

Best of Luck!

jproj