Working in the Middle East to get ahead?... 2

[brownplayboy310]

I heard a couple stories at my work about engineers who went overseas (Saudi and Kuwait) to take positions because there was a much higher pay that was tax free. I've realized that it's near impossible to really stack money here in the states as taxes, mortgage, etc. I hear these positions pay much more due to hazard and all living expenses are covered. I wanted to ask more, but I didn't want people at work to think I was going to jump ship. Does anyone here have experience with this or more insight? Thank you for your time.

 

[glass99]

The rule of thumb in Dubai at least is that you net double or triple what you would in your home country. It is very good financially.

If you like shopping at malls they place is terrific and offers tremendous consumption opportunities. If you like getting drunk with British ex-pats, you also have tremendous opportunity. However, balanced lifestyle as an American or European might imagine it is difficult. I don't know about the O+G industry, but regular professional jobs in the middle east are not dangerous.

Caveat: I have never lived in the middle east. My information comes from talking to colleagues who do.

 

[IRstuff]

As a US citizen, foreign income is still taxable, so you should consult a tax expert.

TTFN
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Of course I can. I can do anything. I can do absolutely anything. I'm an expert!

 

[weldstan]

You can make and save more money. At least I did 30+ years ago in Saudi.
It is not a "bed of roses" over there; plenty of thorns in the mix.

 

[urgross]

A large part of my expereince in the middle east involved getting gamma globulin shots every three months. Not too bad when you're young, at my age I would not repeat it. If I had a way-back machine, I'd do it again, and not just for the money (my ex got all that anyway).

 

[glass99]

I think it can be very hard on your marriage/family - a colleague moved to Doha with wife and child a few years back basically for the money, but wife got sick of living in total isolation with drunk ex-pats, and insisted they move back. I think it depends a lot on your personality. Some engineers really just live for their work and it really doesn't matter if you dropped them onto the moon. One upside is that its possible to achieve technical things over there which are not possible in the West.

 

[Panther140]

I think you would have to go out of your way to have that income taxed by the U.S government. actually, never mind. they get their greedy/overbearing government hands in everything. They'll probably come up with some excuse to tax you double on it and just take it all away. They'll give you the alternative of banning you from "Land of the Free". The IRS needs an ass kicking

 

[hokie66]

No advice on working there, as I have never done it. The extent of my knowledge of the Middle East was 2 days in Dubai, and to me it is "hell on earth".

As to taxation, all US citizens are subject to US taxation. You can exclude a lot of foreign income, and take tax credits, but you must still file. The IRS is the one which does the "ass kicking" if you don't.

 

[glass99]

hokie66: did you not do indoor skiing at the Mall of Dubai when you were there? Surely being able to spend your money on such excitement makes up for living in a baron desert.

Then again, double your salary for a couple of years, and come back to civilization with a downpayment/whole payment on a house. Its what pretty much everyone in Dubai is thinking.

 

[racookpe1978]

Regrettably, I think in today's environment (deliberate lack of protection of US citizens abroad in all areas - but particularly in that area) living in the MidEast is a good way to lose your head, not get ahead.

 

[brownplayboy310]

Basically I just want to rent out my house, go there for a few years and come back to pay off my hime and purchase investment properties. My current job doesn't pay enough for me to really accumulate wealth.

 

[Latexman]

Do it. Max out your 401k. Put 30-40% into taxable savings. Invest it wisely and for the long term. I spent 5 years in Dubai and Singapore. Second b est thing I ever did. My wife and kid agree too. They were there with me. You just have to live below your means, thats all. But then, thats what you are not doing now. Can you do it there?

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[ScottyUK]

Make sure you can adapt to their way of doing things. It's their country, and their rules. There's a hierarchy in Arab society and the nationals are definitely at the top, followed by western expats, then skilled foreigners - frequently Egyptian, with foreign labour being at the bottom.

Personally I think Kuwait is an awful place which I hope to never see again, but others think it is great. Spend some time there before committing yourself to anything long term.

 

[brownplayboy310]

What was the money like?

 

[ScottyUK]

I was working for a UK-based consulting engineering company at the time and we were on UK payroll as we weren't out there long term, just blocks of a few weeks at a time. Money was far below expat level. Company provided accommodation was of a fairly decent standard. Food was a mix of the familiar and the unusual; meat was generally not up to much but fresh fruit & vegetables were easy enough to get hold of. Some local dishes were very nice and others were hideous, much like anywhere you go.

 

[Latexman]

The money is somewhat complicated due to taxes. I was on an expat package with a US megacorp from 1990-1995. That may be quite different than expat packages today. There was an expat adder and a war zone adder (Gulf War). Megacorp paid housing and housing expenses (electricity, water, sewer, etc.) and the tax effect from that. They deducted the "average" US housing, so I rented out our home to counter that. MegaCorp paid for our "home leave" each year on full fare business class. We flew discount economy and used the savings to pay for some REALLY nice vacations! As mentioned, the tax situation makes it hard to say what I made then, plus that was a long time ago and I'm not digging up those records. But, I was able to max out my 401k. That was somewhere between 10-20% savings tax free. We only brought 50-60% of my remaining salary onshore to Dubai. The rest was deposited into our US bank where most, not all, was transferred to investment accounts. Looking at my Social Security statement, 1990-1995 are still my highest income years, even with several promotions, raises, and inflation. Of course, the income tax situation bulked up those numbers tremendously.

Good luck,
Latexman

Technically, the glass is always full - 1/2 air and 1/2 water.

 

[EdStainless]

Do you have a family?
You can put up with anything, because you know where you are headed.
A family not so much.
Buddy's of mine that lived in the middle east housed their families other places (Malta, Greece, Spain). It was easy to fly back and forth every other week for a four day visit, and the family had better living conditions. Of course you can't bank much that way.
Life is a balance.

If you are alone, you will find that the places with the most stark living conditions (desert compounds) will pay more.
If you look around I'll bet that you can find online discussion groups of mid-east ex-pats.

= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Plymouth Tube

 

[RossABQ]

A guy who worked with me and had taken a bath on sale of his house in California ('09), had to choose between bankruptcy or going over there for a year. As a side note, if I were married to his wife, I'd have been on the first plane out... at any rate he went to Qatar and ended up staying for almost two years. He got out of his financial hole, maybe even a little ahead. But his "life" over there consisted of either being at work, or holed up in a crappy little apartment until the next workday began. Surfing the internet, watching cable TV. The most miserable climate on earth, by his description. He seemed to feel it was worth it... but like I said, there were "other factors"....

 

[BUGGAR]

"Working in the Middle East to get a Head". Are the initials ISIL involved?

 

[MacGyverS2000]

Yikes...

Dan - Owner

http://www.Hi-TecDesigns.com