Working in a family-run-business 18

[flamby]

I am working with an engineering design cum construction company run by a family. As I grow in age and experience, I am gathering the feeling that The Family is more comfortable dealing with mediocre types as against the more technical and professional people. Almost all, without exception, in the top rung are those who are considered "loyal" to the company because they never tried to change their job. The actual reason is obvious, they were sure not to find one, if they tried.

I think, this is high time I try changing my job, even if means taking a pay cut. I do not see much growth over here. Does it make sense? How many of you can take the risk of accepting lesser pay to work in a different place where, probably, it attracts more value?

Regards.

 

[jmw]

There is an English saying about family run businesses:
"Clogs to clogs in three generations".
You may not be familiar with the phrase, but it means that whatever the success of the first generation, and however strong a business is passed on to the second generation, all the third generation gets is poverty again. What you describe is all the evidence you need of that.

This is the logical and most common outcome of nepotism.

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

 

[Lorentz]

Greg Locock's joke about his dog reminded me of my favorite book "Horse Sense" by Al Ries and Jack Trout.

I recommend this book to all young engineers because it explodes a lot of popular misconceptions. The authors advise against working for large companies, but provide observations on what is needed to survive in the corporate world. As a sample quote:

"Corporations have a lot of cats and dogs working for them. The dogs are eager, enthusiastic, good-natured clumsy team players. The cats are quiet, competent, thoughtful, even-tempered individualists. So who gets promoted? The dogs, of course."

In the same chapter the authors also comment:

"The brutal truth is that ability is one of the least important attributes for success."

which seems to reinforce funnelguy's comment in an earlier post:

"Technical prowess does not guarantee success. "

While I wouldn't suggest that the young engineers reading this thread turn into "dogs", it doesn't hurt to have a basic knowlege of office politics.

Good luck to us all!

 

[vpl]

As a "cat" working for the government (big business at its worst), I agree, Lorentz. However, being a cat I really don't care if the dogs get promoted, as long as they leave me alone. If they don't, well, that's why cats have claws.

Seriously, flame, I think you probably deep down know the answer — you just need the encouragement to get out and find another job.

Patricia Lougheed

Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of the Eng-Tips Forums.

 

[Heckler]

flame - I have worked for three small companies and have experienced the very same thing you're currently going through. This is my take. This behavor is driving out of fear of change, fear of being challenged, and lack of respect towards their employees.

"Like a car with an engine that can't fire on all cylinders, a business that's dysfunctional may move forward for a while. But eventually it stops running."

"The hallmark of a dysfunctional organization is a gap between reality and rhetoric," says Ben Dattner, a New York organizational psychologist.

Most people that start a business find that they can't work for someone else......for many reasons but often so it's because they're a lousy employee. People who start their own businesses tend to have been fired from or quit more than one job.

 

[jmw]

Heckler,
what is your point?

We could use a variety of terms to describe people who start their own businesses and these can be pejorative or not. Entrepreneurial, imaginative, bold, etc.

It may take a special person to have the vision and the drive to start on their own and it may be that the characteristics that favour a person starting their own company are the characteristics that do not make them a good employee.

True, they may also not make them very good for the future of their companies as their cherished product matures. The single minded determination to suceed that gets their ideas past all obstacles may, indeed, become a negative feature as the product matures and requires changes to keep it current and ahead of the imitators.

I think that many successful companies start because of the drive, ambition and initiative of someone who does have a streak of rebellion.

But it is that which happens next that is critical and which is, i think, the cause of the discussions here.

I would imagine that working in a start-up company for such a person woud be, well, exciting. Woking for the next generation would fill me with dread.

So when we talk about "family run businesses”, I believe that the problems come with the next generation who are less well equipped to manage such a business.
They bring nothing new to the business but an "if it isn’t broke don't fix it" attitude that leads to stagnation. It may be that this attitude begins with the founder, i don't know.

Companies that start with a single product often die with the end of life for that product, or they are acquired at some optimum point in the product life by a company that is less good at innovation but better at life cycle management and building a business out of the first product.

When Bill Gates retires, it would be interesting to see where Microsoft would go, or Virgin, or any other of these hugely successful companies, if they were to continue as "family run" businesses.

Dynasties are probably easier to establish than maintain because they depend on the all-too-unique qualities of the founders and are not structured to continue to succeed when they are controlled by "differently" capable successors.


JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

 

[funnelguy]

Great post JMW!

Heckler, just to throw a wrench in the works....
Every business owner I ever knew was an employee at some point. Quite a few went back to being employees when the fires that drove them burned down a bit. I was an employee for quite a few companies. I quit quite a few. Mostly for better money. I started my own business when I realized I could do better on my own than working for other people.

I am a bit of a bull in a china shop in the workplace. Results are what matters and I occasionally step on toes getting the job done. Politics just annoy me to the point of distraction. Do I fit your profile? Oddly, with all my character flaws and general lack of sensitivity, I believe most of my previous employers would love to have me back. They're just not willing to pay me the required money in most cases and I'm not willing to relocate for the other two.

Seriously, 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year in the US. So how is it that the 1 guy who makes it work must be "a lousy employee"? You need a better argument.

Finally, I loved this quote: "The hallmark of a dysfunctional organization is a gap between reality and rhetoric," says Ben Dattner, a New York organizational psychologist.

That sounds like every business meeting I ever attended!

 

[oxilume]

Heckler,

Here are a few family owned businesses/partnerships of past and present:
Ford
Hunstman Chemical
Daimler Benz

I have one simple question;
Of the fortune 500 companies, how many simply popped into existance, without the involvement of one single person or a group of people?

As a small business owner, highly decorated Naval Officer, and former employee and salesman of the year for a very large Oil Company I am taken aback when someone passes judgement on business owners being lousy employees.

Funnelguy stated it best,
"Seriously, 4 out of 5 new businesses fail in the first year in the US. So how is it that the 1 guy who makes it work must be "a lousy employee"? You need a better argument."










Todd

http://www.oxilume.com

 

[Heckler]

JMW - What I was trying to do is add links to some intersting articles on the quotes I listed but it looks like that didn't happen....

3 signs of a dysfunctional company

http://www.bcentral.com/articles/krotz/187.asp

7 signs of an entrepreneur

http://www.bcentral.com/articles/anthony/187.asp

Todd - trust me my posted wasn't intended to insult you or anyone else but more of "just add my 2 cents worth". I've had both good and bad experiences with small "family owned" companies and I've been exploited at the larger companies. I tend to like the smaller company due to the overall exposure from craddle to grave of projects. Anyway, enough said on my part but a lot of great posts on this thread.

 

[oxilume]

Thanks Heckler.

Keep in touch. Small businesses are always in need of exceptional people.

Todd

http://www.oxilume.com

 

[jmw]

Heckler,
thanks for the links. I shall be sending the one on disfunctional companies to my last employer!

I think that if you are proposing these links as support or illustration of your post that you are on the same wavelength as myself and were just a bit misinterpreted.

In this light i take your comments do not refer to a family company at start-up but at some much later phase.

PS From the first link about dysfunctional companies, i wouldn't have thought the top management needed much prompting to head for the golf course. Frankly, the more time they spend there and the less in the company, the better all will be!

JMW

http://www.viscoanalyser.com

eng-tips, by professional engineers for professional engineers
Please see FAQ731-376 for tips on how to make the best use of Eng-Tips Fora.

 

[oxilume]

JMW,

I consulted with a small family owned business for quite some time. There is nothing better than a green fees gift certificate. If they hunt, give them a paid guided quail, pheasant hunt.



Todd

http://www.oxilume.com

 

[chris9]

If you want to get on in a family run business the best way is to marry into the family.

If you want to get on in a large corporation the best way is to put in very long hours and this will eventually get you excepted into the right social circles. Once you are in that circle you need to make yourself to be a personal friend of the boss.

Anyone who thinks they can do it by shear hard work and aptitude is in for a big disappointment.

 

[TheTick]

Just curious...

Anyone here regularly watch the U.S. T.V. show "Arrested Development"? Anyone who ever worked for a relative would really appreciate it.

Due to illness, the part of The Tick will be played by... The Tick.

http://www.EsoxRepublic.com

 

[plasgears]

I finally went into consultation full time. I find that my energies are creatively directed most of the time, which cannot be said for salaried endeavors. My clients are generally pleased and grateful for my contributions. The compensation is not up desired levels, but word of mouth is beginning to take hold.

The future holds promise. As my mentor said, work for the time when your clients are calling only you without competition, and compensation is what you ask for.

 

[funnelguy]

gutsy move, plasgears! Best of luck on your new endeavor!

 

[JamesBarlow]

I'm a few days away from going from Family Run to Corporate Run, so I thought I would give my 2cents as to my decision.

Having read all the posts, and having been in both large and small comapanies, the thing I noticed is that there isn't really much difference. The scale of operations is different, but that's really it.

Small family owned, and large corporate run businesses have more in common than not. Being large, or small, doesn't exempt you from all the problems associated with running a business.

In then end, my decision was based on mobility.

Large and small companies both act the same way. The only way you are really going to move forward is if someone leaves, or dies. By going to a large company you are playing the percentages that someone is going to leave eventually. In a small company there are fewer people to leave, so I'm less likely to move up.

Who knows. Maybe I will hate working for a big company again and more back to something smaller. But right now it felt like the right thing to do.