LRJ said:
the better use of effort in the short-term is turning an inequality of perception to an advantage.
My last director of engineering told me that I needed to "learn how to make being a woman work for me." My work was not speaking for itself and had not been for many years.
There are many forms of aggression and some do not belong in a professional setting, from what I consider to be highly educated people working in a professional setting. Evidently others agree because HR usually produces an employee handbook stating such behaviors are unacceptable. I thought as a small business owner I wouldn't have the need for an employee handbook. I was wrong and had to do it. People endlessly surprise me with crazy thoughts.
beej67, much of it, though dated, still applies. That was what struck me, as I read it. When I, as an older woman, have men 20 years my junior tell me that I have no business being an engineer or running my own company because I've taken "the" spot a man should have, that really sums it up. Just by getting the engineering degree I had taken "a" spot a man should have. As if that's the way life really works... Is there a lottery system to attend public institutions of higher learning? And what if no man fills that spot? Should I still go elsewhere? Men and women are doing things all the time in all aspects of life. Life is very dynamic not some rigid system of whatever their biases are. There are plenty of white, male owned companies that will not take on risky projects.
There are a lot of changes employers could make that would ease the burdens of life for their employees rather than make them continue in hardships. They don't, I suppose, because of greed. They're in the business to make as much money as possible and that means full-time employees making the money for them because they cannot do it alone, which is obvious to all. Some of the pieces that would make things better for women would also make things better for men, too. Families are units so when one has a hardship due to work the unit has hardship. I cannot see it any other way.
And I am very sorry your wife has cancer and hope she makes a full recovery. I hope your family supports you, too.
A friend attacked me recently blaming me for all of my career problems. He accused me, wrongly, of being arrogant and thinking less of him because he didn't get an engineering degree. I was floored by every accusation. I apologized but even that wasn't enough and wasn't deemed genuine. I was floored by that, too. I could do nothing right. Yet, the first time he broached the career problems years earlier, the example he used was a "sweet, young thing" doing great in sales. In my 50's, I'm not exactly young and some think I'm not sweet. He didn't even understand the adjectives he used in his example. Sex, with men, is a powerful motivator, whether they think they'll get sex from a sex kitten in sales or not. Some women, I know, use that to their advantage and they are fully aware that time is limited so they need to make the most of their time regardless of who they step on, too.
For the record, I will glove up and clean just about any toilet. I don't think arrogant people will do that or even come close to thinking it. I also don't discriminate against others for the education they get and I'm very tired of people doing it to me. It doesn't happen often but it does happen. We all make our choices and I am glad that others make theirs and invest in themselves through education.
IRstuff said:
So, in principle, and in practice, one could advertise jobs, but tailor the ads to exclude all sorts of undesirable segments, like women, or minorities.
And that does happen.
As I've posted before, a man young enough to be my son refused to do business with me because he didn't think I could do the work. He "knew" how things worked. I was a front for a male owned engineering firm, which I would hire to "really" do the work because they could and I couldn't. It's just like the black owned engineering firms, which were his words. I was floored that he would say those things and surprised at his ignorance of how business does work. I don't care to do business with people like that.
beej67 said:
I'm not a big fan of trumpeting "systemic sexism/racism!" all day every day like many other people seem to do.
I don't either but sadly it is systemic and much of it hasn't been dealt with adequately because there are no adults in the room. I use "room" in a very broad sense.
vthomidis said:
....in 2 words it is called "victimhood obsession"...
And while males are taking that exact tack now even though while males still have the bulk of the power, position, etc. A white male (ChemE) told me at work many years ago that they have the power, position, money, etc. and they're not about to give it up. They'll fight to keep it. So, as laws are made to level the playing field, they devise new, more subtle ways to discriminate against people. I thought that was quite the bold admission especially at work.
CWB1 said:
I believe you mean the relief and sympathy.
Many women, who come forward, receive death threats, costly relocation and security expenses, loss of employment, etc. Those far outweigh any relief and sympathy they may get. The last discussion, which was recent, I had with one of my childhood abusers was quite negative, threatening, and intimidating just like in childhood begging to be left alone. You learn not to speak because it will bring a heap of trouble on you! That was what they told me as a child. It would be my fault, not theirs. The culture then told me they were right and, sadly, it still does. Those men have voices and power I do not and I am not going to come forward to authorities and endure all of the problems that come with it. I avoid those men at all costs. And I don't need or want sympathy. I want change. I want better behavior from men.
Yes, it's a dangerous time for men. It's alwaysa been a dangerous time for women and will continue to be. We have always had to think of ways to avoid, work around, outsmart, etc. men because men don't respect women's boundaries or personhood. I've spent an inordinate amount of time trying to understand what happened to me for years during my childhood and why. More than one person called me crazy, as a young adult. The message was received and I got to work overcoming the problems of my family, culture, religious culture, etc. And do not misunderstand, I love men! I think men are great! But there are some men that I dislike a great deal and should.
vthomidis said:
I used to believe brainwashing and fanaticism to be incompatible with engineering.
I saw the fallacies of that in engineering school.
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Dad told me once that he admired my ability to get knocked down and get back up, brush the dirt off, and get back on that horse. His delivery said more, really, than his words. His delivery implied that people had a right to knock me down. They do not. They do not even have the right to try and that is the genesis of laws.
Pamela K. Quillin, P.E.
Quillin Engineering, LLC
NSPE-CO, Central Chapter
Dinner program:
