I am a structural consultant to a very large homebuilder that has in-house drafting. I found out that they put a pedestrian bridge in one of their subdivisions out to bid with my firm's name in the title block. I had no knowledge of the project. I don't know how they planned on getting it through permit. Maybe they have their ways. I feel this is a serious breach of ethics. To make matters worse I have had to field several calls from bidding contractors who don't understand the drawings. Should I contact an attorney? I feel, at the very least, I am going to contact my State Board and Building Department. Unfortunately, this is probably the end of our working relationship. But maybe it's best not to work with such disreputable people anyway.
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations cowski on being selected by the Eng-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
What are my options?
- Thread starter ajnoble
- Start date
From my experience, you are better off not saying anything and find a differnet job. Exposing the situation could have you banned from doing that type of work again. Builders, inspectors, city coord, etc all have their contacts and your name could get around. Ultimately it is your decision. good luck
Is there a problem with just approaching the company and advising them that it's come to your attention that this has happened, and have them redress the issue?
If the pedestrian bridge was one that you designed, earlier and if it still is code complying, then let them know that you expect some compensation for re-use as well as your additional exposure.
If it's a totally new bridge, then you must review the design... and for a different fee.
If the pedestrian bridge was one that you designed, earlier and if it still is code complying, then let them know that you expect some compensation for re-use as well as your additional exposure.
If it's a totally new bridge, then you must review the design... and for a different fee.
Whatever you do, don't follow ctopher's advice.
What you might do:[ol][li]Consult your solicitor for advice as to what action you should take when you contact your client.[/li][li]Advise your client (in writing) that their documents misrepresent your firm as the author of the subject bridge design.[/li][li]If the circumstances warrant it, (ie. not just a typographic error on your client's part, etc.) you should consult your licensing board and even the building permit authority to take action.[/li][/ol]Doing nothing would be unethical.
Regards,
What you might do:[ol][li]Consult your solicitor for advice as to what action you should take when you contact your client.[/li][li]Advise your client (in writing) that their documents misrepresent your firm as the author of the subject bridge design.[/li][li]If the circumstances warrant it, (ie. not just a typographic error on your client's part, etc.) you should consult your licensing board and even the building permit authority to take action.[/li][/ol]Doing nothing would be unethical.
Regards,
ctopher,
I'm curious--are a PE? I think PM is making his statement as a registered PE (which I would presume ajnoble or somebody in his firm also is). I suspect that your advice, though arguably appropriate for an industry-exempt engineer, is entirely inappropriate for a PE in such a field.
(I'm not intending to insult, only intending to clarify where I believe PM is coming from).
Brad
I'm curious--are a PE? I think PM is making his statement as a registered PE (which I would presume ajnoble or somebody in his firm also is). I suspect that your advice, though arguably appropriate for an industry-exempt engineer, is entirely inappropriate for a PE in such a field.
(I'm not intending to insult, only intending to clarify where I believe PM is coming from).
Brad
Yes I am a P.Eng., but the merits for clarifying the client's misrepresentation are for civil liability reasons, not professional liability reasons. Whether the client is fraudulently misrepresenting or negligently misrepresenting is not the primary concern, . . .the fact is that the client is misrepresenting who designed the bridge. This should be put right for a host of prudent reasons.
Regards,
Regards,
Did they only use your firm’s name or was there an engineering seal copied as well
There was a case here in Manitoba about 10 years ago where a company issued a set of drawings for a restaurant mechanical system. The client copied the design, made modifications and issued the drawings complete with the original engineer’s seal on them. The original engineer only found out about it when the contractors started phoning with questions and requests for equals.
Unfortunately the Association and the Crown Prosecutors could not agree if this was a violation of the engineering act or a simple fraud. (In Canada since we are a self-regulating profession, the association is responsible for prosecuting violations of the engineering act while the Crown is responsible for normal criminal matters,) The dispute dragged on for so long that when the Crown realized that it was not a violation of the engineering act but a fraud against an engineer that the case was never dealt with in the courts. (You can contact the Manitoba association through their web site for more details.)
In any case if they represented that your firm was involved in the design. This is a fraud against you and your good name as well as one against the engineering profession in general.
I think that you are ethically obligated to report this crime both to your local association and to the police. It appears that they are practicing engineering without a license and that obligates you to report the act to the association and they are breaking the law on fraud and that obligates you to report the crime to the police.
You may have some negative repercussions about this. You most likely would never work for this company again, but you really don’t want to. If they are this disreputable then I would not worry about their friends and associates blacklisting. They most likely have done other things to others and there might be some relief in the construction community that these people have been brought to task.
Remember that your code of ethics is meant to protect the public. If following this code of ethics harms you that’s why you get the big bucks, fancy title and the privilege of practicing engineering for.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
There was a case here in Manitoba about 10 years ago where a company issued a set of drawings for a restaurant mechanical system. The client copied the design, made modifications and issued the drawings complete with the original engineer’s seal on them. The original engineer only found out about it when the contractors started phoning with questions and requests for equals.
Unfortunately the Association and the Crown Prosecutors could not agree if this was a violation of the engineering act or a simple fraud. (In Canada since we are a self-regulating profession, the association is responsible for prosecuting violations of the engineering act while the Crown is responsible for normal criminal matters,) The dispute dragged on for so long that when the Crown realized that it was not a violation of the engineering act but a fraud against an engineer that the case was never dealt with in the courts. (You can contact the Manitoba association through their web site for more details.)
In any case if they represented that your firm was involved in the design. This is a fraud against you and your good name as well as one against the engineering profession in general.
I think that you are ethically obligated to report this crime both to your local association and to the police. It appears that they are practicing engineering without a license and that obligates you to report the act to the association and they are breaking the law on fraud and that obligates you to report the crime to the police.
You may have some negative repercussions about this. You most likely would never work for this company again, but you really don’t want to. If they are this disreputable then I would not worry about their friends and associates blacklisting. They most likely have done other things to others and there might be some relief in the construction community that these people have been brought to task.
Remember that your code of ethics is meant to protect the public. If following this code of ethics harms you that’s why you get the big bucks, fancy title and the privilege of practicing engineering for.
Rick Kitson MBA P.Eng
Construction Project Management
From conception to completion
- Thread starter
- #9
I called up my State Board and my Building Department who had not yet received the plans. The job turned out to be a pre-engineered bridge which my client claimed I was eventually in line to design the abutments for. Incidentally, I found out there was a security guard building on the plans as well. They also claimed it was not out for public bid, but only to a select few. I still think they were remiss in proceeding on any engineering project without letting me know about it. I would have a difficult time on a responsible charge defense for a project I couldn't describe. I did not file any complaints but I did write the client a stern letter explaining their breach of ethics. For now they are still my client.
I would venture to say that what your client did constitutes fraud. They deliberately misrepresented the plans to the customer. Perhaps they infringed on your trademark and copyright as well.
Hopefully, they did not forge your approval on these drawings.
![[bat]](/data/assets/smilies/bat.gif "[bat] [bat]")
All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.
Hopefully, they did not forge your approval on these drawings.
All this machinery making modern music can still be open-hearted.- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question
- Locked
- Question
