Weld Clearance Question

[Galambos]

I have reinforcing plates i need to weld to the underside of the top flange of an existing W16 with limited access.

These plates will be similar to "cut-out" plates shown in the hss connections manual, but welded on the bottom of the top flange as shown in the AISC manual 13ed in figure 12-8a. a second set of plates will be welded to the bottom flange.

it seems to me that this weld could be made from below, but i wanted a second opinion.

funny enough, i have even set this up in my house to see how hard it would be. the length from the bottom flange to the top flange doesnt appear to be a problem in terms of reach. i was able to see the weld, but i didnt have a welding mask on.

Thoughts?

 

[connectegr]

I don't believe there is adequate access from below to provide the fillet weld shown in the overhead position. For SMAW the welder must extend the electrode between the concrete wall and beam flange, to a position nearly 16" above and maintain the appropriate angle. The head of the FCAW-S will be equally difficult.

What is the intent of the reinforcement? Note that the bevel to clear the beam fillet decreases the effective thickness of the plate.

http://www.FerrellEngineering.com

 

[Galambos]

thanks for the response. The 16" is about half an arms length for myself, so it might be closer than you are thinking.

the plates are intended to bypass the hss column for a moment connection, and are way oversized to clear the fillet. the toe of the weld extends out to where the thickness of the plate is about 5/8".

yes, the bevel limits the effective thickness of the plate, but im under the impression that it is only for my weld length calculation/ section J4 elements in shear.

if you had any other thoughts, id like to hear them.

 

[NS4U]

Did you look at Figure 8-9 in the black book? it shows necessary clearnaces for welds. Is that helpful?

 

[Galambos]

yes, it is helpful, but its lacking a dimension along the electrode from the tip to the obstruction (i.e. concrete wall).

 

[azcats]

Can't the electrodes for SMAW be bent or shortened as required for better/easier access? And I've also heard of welders working with mirrors in tight access. Your situation clearly isn't ideal, but doesn't look impossible either.

Perhaps also post your sketch over on the welding forum. Some actual welders might have some insight too.

 

[Duwe6]

Yes, 'Stick' electrodes can be bent for angularity, or bent to shorten their effective length. Yes, this is a'do-able' weld, but it will require an Ironworker welder with a lot of experience, some of it in limited-access welding.

In my experience, if you specify that you need a "Full-Penn" or "Moment" welder for a connection to the Iron Supt, they can supply a person that can weld this joint such that it meets specification and Code requirements. [i've been a CWI since 1984, so this is a 'professional' opinion, not a 'personal' one]