Water as a hot commodity in the future? 2

[ziggi]

I've been hearing talk of water scarcity problems developing in the future. Even to the point that water will one day become a very valuable commodity. The fuzz claims that within 10 years, water will be in the same position as oil is now.

Any thoughts on that? Any ideas how it will affect our profession in the coming years?

 

[CorBlimeyLimey]

We'll just have to drink beer instead!


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[ivymike]

I noticed a similar suggestion in a Nat'l Geographic article about Glen Canyon / Lake Powell this month. What scenario is expected to result in the proposed scarcity? Urban growth?

 

[zdas04]

In the western US, water has always been a big deal. I'm teaching a class next month on dealing with Oil & Gas produced water and the research for it was really fasinating.

A 200 MW power plant near my house evaporates 15,000 gallons per minute. Today they're using high-quality river water. Many large power plants are looking at using lower quality water (like from oil & gas wells) instead because the cost and availibility of clean water is becoming prohibitive.

There is a lot of marginal-to-poor water available in the environment that is "waste" because clean water has always been pleantiful. In my research I found a lot of places where that paridgm is changing and people are trying to waste less and clean up marginal sources.

You won't see $70/bbl water any time soon, but $0.0025/gallon probably won't last much longer.

David

 

[Ashereng]

I have heard of massive de-salination plants for the desert nations (middle east?). That is probably more than $0.0025/gallon.

I don't think the US is there yet. Although the major river diversion projects (Colorado River?) in California comes close. Isn't that one of the reasons for the Hoover dam?

However, golf courses in both areas still water the grass. I guess the price of water has a ways to go yet.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
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[epoisses]

Why don't we melt the icebergs on the north pole to address that problem??

 

[ziggi]

I've heard of the mid-east de-sal plants but apparently they cost a fortune to setup, the water quality is not too great and the costs involved in the process are high.
I know that some filtration companies are having success in the water recycling market, Zenon is one example.

epoisses, that's a good idea except I'd rather not have bits of polar bear in my drinking water

 

[Ashereng]

ziggi, that is what I mean. The desal plants are really expensive, yet people still water the grass. Water isn't expensive enough yet over there, and definitely, not expensive over here.

Water as a hot commoditiy won't be a reality for a while yet.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[BJC]

Water allready is. Check the cooler in your grocery store. Lots of water in there, 10 years ago you had to find the water fountain in a grocery store to get a drink.

 

[ziggi]

BJC,
good point, however that could also be due to the perception people have that bottled water is better than tap water.

 

[Jabberwocky]

The only time we'll run out of water is when there are so many billions of people on the planet that it's all tied up in their bodies. Otherwise it will always be around - where can it go?

The question is potable water - that stuff is already quite valuable in certain parts of the world.

 

[bioengr82]

Otherwise it will always be around - where can it go?

It goes into unusable sources; the oceans through increased impermeable area (storm sewers) piped into the rivers into oceans. Water mining of aquifers (removing water more quickly then they can naturally recharge) is another draw-down of usable sources. Mexico City is actually sinking because the level of the underlying aquifer has dropped so much. Sure they could recharge naturally over hundreds/thousands of year, but I don't think the parabolic growth of our population will allow that. Additionally, human impact has affected natures ability to naturally filter and clean surface waters through destruction of wetlands and and contamination of soils and aquifers.

Water will indeed become very valuable and IMO belive more than one war will be fought over water.

 

[bioengr82]

Ashereng-
Thumb through a few of these

I think Mexico City is pretty representative of our impact and usage.

 

[Ashereng]

bioengr82,

Thank you for the link. Unfortunately, there are water shortages around the globe, and not every nation is as lucky as my nation.

That said, how much do you pay for water on your water bill?

For example, residential water prices:
western Canada is $0.003859/US gallon
western US is $0.0025 /US gallon

Using crude oil at $60/bbl, that is about $1.43 a US gallon. Oil is currently 370 times more expensive than water.



"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[bioengr82]

True enough Ashereng, however, most people don’t use 70 gallons of petrol a day like they do water.

That aside, oil is a finite resource that will one day be depleted regardless of conservation efforts and an oil crisis is will occur at some point. It is simply how long it is rationed.

As Jabberwocky pointed out, water isn't going anywhere in our closed system. Poor management, localized over population, pollution, arrogance, and short-sidedness will be the sole cause of the blossoming water crisis.

 

[ivymike]

70gal/day per person? Is that an average? We only use about 80gal/day total at my new house, and we have two adults, two dogs, and a steady stream of guests.

$0.0025 /US gallon!?!? Water at my last house was about $90 for 3000-4000gal, or about $0.0225 to $0.03 per gal. / Chicago Suburbs. That included "disposal" (sewer) charges of about $8/mo. I currently pay about $0.013/gal for water, and use a septic system / central illinois. It'd be great if water was 90% cheaper!

 

[bioengr82]

The average household uses about 60-90 gpd plus your water usage at work another 15 gpd plus everytime you go out to eat another 8 gallons plus the unknown gallons of water used to process, manufacture, and irrigate your food, clothes, gasoline, pop can, electricity, etc. Your water usage footprint is much larger than just your domestic water bill.

 

[Ashereng]

ivymike, my water rate is just the water rate. Disposal, construction surcharges, etc, is not included. I would think that those charges would vary by city/municipality/etc.

It seems that water is more expensive in Chicago.

However, I don't foresee water getting to $0.25 in the next 10 years. A 10 fold increase in water rates in 10 years would be a lot.

"Do not worry about your problems with mathematics, I assure you mine are far greater."
Albert Einstein
Have you read FAQ731-376 to make the best use of Eng-Tips Forums?

 

[moltenmetal]

The thing separating wastewater from useable water is energy. So ultimately a water shortage is another manifestation of an energy shortage. And wasting water is simply another waste of energy.

Some nations are rich in solar energy stored in the form of clean water. Others are not so lucky. So yes, there will be conflict over access to this resource in future.

 

[zappedagain]

I heard this interview on the radio the other day:

http://michiganradio.org/ram/20060411PEARCE.ram

"Many of us who are concerned about conserving water tend to focus on the water that’s going down the drain. We might install low flow toilets, front loading washers, and try to shorten our time in the shower, but as Fred Pearce demonstrates in his new book, “When The Rivers Run Dry,” we should be more worried about what we’re putting in our mouths. It’s food production around the world that’s leading us to an almost inevitable global water crisis. "

He has an interesting viewpoint; I'm sure the beef industry won't like it. Is water that goes into agriculture really so bad?